grappling and burrowing

[imneuromancer]

If a creature has burrowing and improved grab, can they move an opponent that they have grabbed into the dirt in which they burrow?

For example:
ROUND 1: creature attacks, hits, and starts a grapple
ROUND 2: creature makes a grapple check, moves 1/2 their burrow speed into the ground (say, burrow speed of 20, so burrow of 10).
ROUND 3: creature releases grapple, opponent is now 10' inside ground.

Is that legal? Am I missing something here that prevents the grappled opponent from being moved into the ground by a burrowing opponent??

[Pilo]

Yep, opponent is in a hole in under the ground, not in the ground.
And you can move at full speed while grappling (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grapple).
Otherwise it's right.

Well, corrections does not leave much of my post.

[silver spectre]

To my knowledge it is completely legal by RAW, but as I would be inclined to apply the burrowing critters build into it as well.

If the creature has to hold its opponent with the limbs it burrows with...

[candycorn]

Actually, this is more dangerous than Pilo would suggest.

Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#burrow)

A creature with a burrow speed can tunnel through dirt, but not through rock unless the descriptive text says otherwise. Creatures cannot charge or run while burrowing. Most burrowing creatures do not leave behind tunnels other creatures can use (either because the material they tunnel through fills in behind them or because they do not actually dislocate any material when burrowing); see the individual creature descriptions for details.
If you burrow and grapple, you can quite possibly bury someone in 15 feet of sand, then leave grapple and leave them, trapped, and suffocating.

[CTrees]

Toss in Earth Glide instead of Burrow and it gets even nastier. Pull an enemy half into a stone wall, then let go?

[imneuromancer]

huh, nasty.

Now add one more layer of complexity: can a vampire turn into gaseous form while buried? I mean, being buried alive wouldn't KILL it, but it would take it out of the fight and it may take a while for it to dig itself out, depending on the depth....

[teslas]

You might want to check this section again, Mr. Pilo:
"You can move half your speed (bringing all others engaged in the grapple with you) by winning an opposed grapple check. This requires a standard action, and you must beat all the other individual check results to move the grapple."

I've had this happen to me and I've done it to players of mine. Yes, you can absolutely drag a creature underground with you if you win the grapple check.


I disbelieve that Earth Glide could be used in this way. It states that the elemental, and only the elemental, can move through stone. If they are dragging an object or creature of any meaningful size with them, it would probably hamper their efforts completely.

[Curmudgeon]

The Glossary has an entry for suffocation (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_suffocation&alpha=S). The rules for grappling specify how you drag others with you, so unless the other character breaks free, they would indeed go along underground.
Move

You can move half your speed (bringing all others engaged in the grapple with you) by winning an opposed grapple check. This requires a standard action, and you must beat all the other individual check results to move the grapple.
The Earth Elemental's Earth Glide ability doesn't specify anything about carrying other, unwilling, creatures along, so that's a non-starter. And, interestingly enough, except for Earth Glide, an Earth Elemental has no burrowing capability (i.e., no listed burrow speed). That leads to the conclusion that if you want to keep an Earth Elemental above ground, you can do so by grappling them. :smallsmile:

[Rapidghoul]

Toss in Earth Glide instead of Burrow and it gets even nastier. Pull an enemy half into a stone wall, then let go?

This comes up a lot in my campaign. The bard has Earth Glide and used to ask if he could do this very thing. Then the rogue always wants him to bring him underground, behind the opponents, and let him sneak attack. For simplicity, I just rule out anything that he isn't wearing / wielding / holding as getting in the way and preventing him from even starting.

[CTrees]

This comes up a lot in my campaign. The bard has Earth Glide and used to ask if he could do this very thing. Then the rogue always wants him to bring him underground, behind the opponents, and let him sneak attack. For simplicity, I just rule out anything that he isn't wearing / wielding / holding as getting in the way and preventing him from even starting.


Improved Grab

If a creature with this special attack hits with a melee weapon (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. No initial touch attack is required.

Unless otherwise noted, improved grab works only against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the improved grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a -20 penalty on grapple checks, but is not considered grappled itself; the creature does not lose its Dexterity bonus to AC, still threatens an area, and can use its remaining attacks against other opponents.

A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

When a creature gets a hold after an improved grab attack, it pulls the opponent into its space. This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity. It can even move (possibly carrying away the opponent), provided it can drag the opponent’s weight.


Earth Glide (Ex)

An earth elemental can glide through stone, dirt, or almost any other sort of earth except metal as easily as a fish swims through water. Its burrowing leaves behind no tunnel or hole, nor does it create any ripple or other signs of its presence.

Rules don't actually appear to say no, but they also don't explicitly say yes. Likely another case of "designers never considered it." *shrug* Personally, I'd rule that Earth Glide can't pull other creatures through solid surfaces, but that burrow will allow it, with potentially lethal consequences.

[CommodoreCrunch]

The Entombed from Frostburn have Ice Glide and Immure; a supernatural ability that allows them to pull a grappled foe into the ice with them and leave them there, trapped.

Due to the existence of a special ability that allows this to be done, I am not inclined to believe that this tactic would work by default. Not with Earth Glide anyways.