How the Gods Die...

[NudelJunge]

...and how to handle it.

In the near future, I will be running a campaign using the Elder Evil, Pandorym. However, the PC's will not be stopping Obligatum VII from releasing Pandorym. However, I don't plan on having Pandorym be a world-ender.

I plan on having them arrive moments after Pandorym's release to find two smoking, mechanical feet/shin stumps as all that remains of Obligatum, as well as a chunk of clear crystal sitting on the floor, propped against the wall. As they find these remains, they will notice that all of the glowing inscriptions and engravings seem to fade and any remaining constructs cease to function and any remaining undead flee by the nearest escape route.

Essentially, Pandorym is going to fulfill his mission of destroying the gods, except that he won't actually be destroying them, but will be banishing them from reality. This banishment is going to eliminate the ties that bind clerics to their gods. Any clerics devoted to principles (knowledge, light, law, etc) will still be able to get their spells/etc, but not clerics devoted to specific deities unless they break that affiliation. After Pandorym banishes the gods, he is going to depart this reality to return to his own. After this happens, all of the effects of the "Seal of Binding" instantly cease and planar travel and Conjuration/Divine spells work normally.

Now, I don't plan on killing off the divine completely. The deities that Pandorym "eliminated," will actually be banished to the nothingness between the worlds and become vestiges, so the only way to contact your god is by becoming a binder, or speaking with someone bound to your god.

So, here's my questions: How would you redesign the core deities as vestiges? What abilities would they grant? What sorts of influences would they exert? What will their signs be? Would it be possible to have them all be of the same vestige level, so that anyone of a sufficient binder level, say 5th, would be able to bind any of the core deities?

Now, this is also going to leave a divine power vacuum, so naturally, someone is going to try to take on the divine mantle and ascend to godhood. I've heard much speculation as to how this can be done, but what exactly does the RAW say about ascending to godhood?

In the words of a horrible movie, starring a horrible actor: "Where's your god, now?"

[Zale]

The world would probably go into chaos. Having the beings that control/represent/empower most of aspects of reality vanish would have a negative impact on the world in general.

Not to mention most priests/clerics/druids/etc would go into despair/panic because their Gods - who have been the center of their life for so long - are suddenly gone.

Not to mention, depending on how Arcane magic works in that setting, wizards and sorcerers may get borked to.

And what happens to the afterlife? Where do souls go if there are no more Gods? How would death work without a Death God? And the poor Outsiders. They must be panicking like anything.

[BIGMamaSloth]

The world would probably go into chaos. Having the beings that control/represent/empower most of aspects of reality vanish would have a negative impact on the world in general.

Not to mention most priests/clerics/druids/etc would go into despair/panic because their Gods - who have been the center of their life for so long - are suddenly gone.

Not to mention, depending on how Arcane magic works in that setting, wizards and sorcerers may get borked to.

And what happens to the afterlife? Where do souls go if there are no more Gods? How would death work without a Death God? And the poor Outsiders. They must be panicking like anything.

Pretty sure that every thing you just said was kinda the point of this entire Idea. Correct me If I'm wrong.

[Coidzor]

What setting?

[RaggedAngel]

After Pandorym banishes the gods, he is going to depart this reality to return to his own. After this happens, all of the effects of the "Seal of Binding" instantly cease and planar travel and Conjuration/Divine spells work normally.

Wait, so once he's done banishing them he'll leave, and when he leaves, the effects of his Seal of Binding go away?

Wouldn't that just bring them all back?

[Zale]

Pretty sure that every thing you just said was kinda the point of this entire Idea. Correct me If I'm wrong.

So I can't restate the obvious now?

B-but that means I'll have to make my posts actually have meaning! D:

[NudelJunge]

The world would probably go into chaos. Having the beings that control/represent/empower most of aspects of reality vanish would have a negative impact on the world in general.

Yessss......


Not to mention most priests/clerics/druids/etc would go into despair/panic because their Gods - who have been the center of their life for so long - are suddenly gone.

Again: yesss......


Not to mention, depending on how Arcane magic works in that setting, wizards and sorcerers may get borked to.

Not affected in the slightest, only the divine.


And what happens to the afterlife? Where do souls go if there are no more Gods? How would death work without a Death God? And the poor Outsiders. They must be panicking like anything.

The afterlife and other planes of existence will, other than not having a divine figurehead, will be otherwise unaffected. The gods are, essentially, just cosmic enforcers and facilitators. The just help the rules and processes apply, sorta trying to prove here that life can go on without the gods. Just not necessarily the exact same way it did before. Who better to take up the mantle of the divine after the gods are gone than the outsiders who've served them for so long?


Pretty sure that every thing you just said was kinda the point of this entire Idea. Correct me If I'm wrong.

You stand.....Uncorrected.


What setting?

Custom setting, but using all the normal core rules/deities/etc.


Wait, so once he's done banishing them he'll leave, and when he leaves, the effects of his Seal of Binding go away?

Wouldn't that just bring them all back?

Nope. They got booted from existence, not just to an alternate plane. Take a look at the vestiges, beings of inestimable power, torn from existence so that the mightiest god cannot interact with them, but the lowliest mortal with the right frame of mind can call them forth and bargain.


So I can't restate the obvious now?

B-but that means I'll have to make my posts actually have meaning! D:

Just having your reply meant something to me. *breaks down in tears of joy*


One other thing, I was planning on doing, sort of as an aside, is that the Faen races (MC's Arcana Unearthed) will no longer be able to come up with new gods. :smallbiggrin:

[marcielle]

About becoming a god: Just having enough people THINK you are awesome does it according to core. Granted, even the lowest divine ranks require thousands. Wizards and Sorcs with their superior communication and movement abilities will probably fill the vacuum faster than any others. Rockstar level bards might qualify. Easiest ones would be a Dread Necro leading a horde of undead on a rampage while leaving survivors to tell stories. Enough carnage would probably qualify them for Deathgod status.

TLDR: You become a god by simply wowing enough people.

I'd like to think racial gods signs make binders look like the appropriate race. Dwelfs would result in many a lol being had.

[Fable Wright]

About becoming a god: Just having enough people THINK you are awesome does it according to core. Granted, even the lowest divine ranks require thousands. Wizards and Sorcs with their superior communication and movement abilities will probably fill the vacuum faster than any others. Rockstar level bards might qualify. Easiest ones would be a Dread Necro leading a horde of undead on a rampage while leaving survivors to tell stories. Enough carnage would probably qualify them for Deathgod status.

TLDR: You become a god by simply wowing enough people.

I'd like to think racial gods signs make binders look like the appropriate race. Dwelfs would result in many a lol being had.

...Honestly, this seems awesome. Would you mind if I stole this idea (you and NJ)?

[marcielle]

Dwelfs? Or Rockstar God of Bards (http://www.drunken-gamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/brutal-legend-wallpaper-1.jpg)?

[Rethmar]

If your setting has a god that serves as a controller of magic, such as the Weave, wizards may very well be 'borked', as someone mentioned earlier.

An interesting idea, will take a lot of work though.

[KainelWyst]

Next contender for god of Death and Music.

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1341342423456&id=36fede0d443599830f9792e2a6891121
Epic Level Lich Bard

Interesting pc plot hook/goal. Immortality through an 'I'll convert ten thousand people to my cause first!' contest.
It'd be like being encouraged to take Leadership as a feat. I.. don't know that that has ever happened before.

[Snowbluff]

You deserve Ur Priests for what you are going to do.

[marcielle]

Jumplomancer(Examplar stacking speed, wings and various jump boosts) could just jump EVERYWHERE and be a full god within the year. Sooner if you are something that doesn't tire like a Warforged. Robot God of Jumping Around in a Stupendous Fashion.

[NudelJunge]

About becoming a god: Just having enough people THINK you are awesome does it according to core.
TLDR: You become a god by simply wowing enough people."

That does seem to be the general consensus. Hm.


I'd like to think racial gods signs make binders look like the appropriate race. Dwelfs would result in many a lol being had.

I had many lols at this statement.


...Honestly, this seems awesome. Would you mind if I stole this idea (you and NJ)?

I thought these boards were the truest essence of the OGL.


If your setting has a god that serves as a controller of magic, such as the Weave,

Nope. Never really cared for the weave and all of it's madness.


wizards may very well be 'borked', as someone mentioned earlier.

Heh. Borked.


Interesting pc plot hook/goal. Immortality through an 'I'll convert ten thousand people to my cause first!' contest.
It'd be like being encouraged to take Leadership as a feat. I.. don't know that that has ever happened before.

Don't think it will get to that level, 2 of the characters are using exalted feats from the Book of Salted Cheese, so clear expectations have already been set for codes of conduct required to maintain their holiness.


You deserve Ur Priests for what you are going to do.

Wha?


Jumplomancer(Examplar stacking speed, wings and various jump boosts) could just jump EVERYWHERE and be a full god within the year. Sooner if you are something that doesn't tire like a Warforged. Robot God of Jumping Around in a Stupendous Fashion.

I know what PC I'm playing next. CHA-CHING!



So I guess the next logical question is, how would you rebuild the core gods as vestiges? Ideally, they would all be of a reasonably low level so that, say, a 5th level binder could bind any/all of them. All of the "secondary" gods from other supplements were, I'm going to say, not strong enough to manifest as vestiges and are simply non-existent.

[Fable Wright]

I thought these boards were the truest essence of the OGL.

Still polite to ask before just stealing the idea and using it for a game.

[Torben Raibeart]

No gods you say... Somehow I immediately get pictures in my head of Asmodeus (and perhaps some of the other archdevils) as well as some of the stronger demons making a move for the void left in the sphere of power, taing full controll of the plains. That said; How are the non-god entities that are worshipped treated by all this? Such as Demogorgon, who got his own cult. Will he be considered a "God", thereby rejected from reality?

[Elboxo]

And then the wizards became non-god gods, and the demon lords were sad once again.

[NudelJunge]

No gods you say... Somehow I immediately get pictures in my head of Asmodeus (and perhaps some of the other archdevils) as well as some of the stronger demons making a move for the void left in the sphere of power, taing full controll of the plains. That said; How are the non-god entities that are worshipped treated by all this? Such as Demogorgon, who got his own cult. Will he be considered a "God", thereby rejected from reality?

The way I was thinking of it, only those with divine ranks would be "ejected" from reality. Granted, those who may be worshiped and have the ability to grant spells may fit the bill as deities, but mechanically not have the divine spark to truly be godly. Then again, I haven't really looked at Demogorgon or Asmodeus to see if they have divine ranks to make that sort of a determination. I've mainly been looking at how to rebuild the gods as vestiges.

[NudelJunge]

So I decided to try my hand at converting the god Heironeous into a vestige. I'm shooting for making all of the gods-become-vestiges into 4th level vestiges. I have to admit, I did leech some info off of Wikipedia for this. Please PEACH this guy and tell me what you think. Please be gentle, it's my first time.

NAME: Heironeous

THE SEAL: I have a pic of the seal on my computer that I have no idea where it came from. It's pretty sweet, you can bank on that.

BINDING DC: 23

SPECIAL REQUIREMENT: Must be good, if not necessarily lawful. Non-good binders have the binding DC increased to 28.

MANIFESTATION: As the last of Heironeous’ Seal is drawn, lightning seems to strike the ground from out of nowhere, as the final blinding flash clears; you see a single blood-stained banner planted at the center of the seal. You see on this banner, the holy symbol of Heironeous. A clear and booming, if not entirely happy voice rings out, demanding to know who summons Heironeous and why.

SIGN: Your skin takes on a coppery hue.

INFLUENCE: You are driven to acts of honor and valor. You must be kind and chivalrous to women, brave and without fear to men. If a situation arise for you to prove your worth, you must attempt it, or have an additional +5 to the binding DC the next time you attempt to bind Heironeous.

GRANTED ABILITIES

Sword and Shield: You gain proficiency with the longsword and the heavy steel shield (or equivalent.)

Heroism: You gain a +4 competence bonus on saving throws versus spells and ability effects that influence your emotions.

Aura of Courage: Any allies within 20 feet who succumb to fear or despair effects are granted an additional save on the next round. Success means the ally shakes off the effect, failure means the effect persists as normal.

Smite Evil: Once per encounter, you can smite an evil opponent. You must declare you are using the smite before you roll the attack. On a successful smite evil attack, you deal an additional point of damage per binder level. If you also have levels in paladin, your binder levels stack with your paladin levels for this smite evil damage.

[gkathellar]

How much are you buying into Planescape canon? Because if you are, there are bigger things than gods that will probably have a much more personal relationship with the Prime in the gods' absence.

[Silva Stormrage]

So I decided to try my hand at converting the god Heironeous into a vestige. I'm shooting for making all of the gods-become-vestiges into 4th level vestiges. I have to admit, I did leech some info off of Wikipedia for this. Please PEACH this guy and tell me what you think. Please be gentle, it's my first time.

NAME: Heironeous

THE SEAL: I have a pic of the seal on my computer that I have no idea where it came from. It's pretty sweet, you can bank on that.

BINDING DC: 23

SPECIAL REQUIREMENT: Must be good, if not necessarily lawful. Non-good binders have the binding DC increased to 28.

MANIFESTATION: As the last of Heironeous’ Seal is drawn, lightning seems to strike the ground from out of nowhere, as the final blinding flash clears; you see a single blood-stained banner planted at the center of the seal. You see on this banner, the holy symbol of Heironeous. A clear and booming, if not entirely happy voice rings out, demanding to know who summons Heironeous and why.

SIGN: Your skin takes on a coppery hue.

INFLUENCE: You are driven to acts of honor and valor. You must be kind and chivalrous to women, brave and without fear to men. If a situation arise for you to prove your worth, you must attempt it, or have an additional +5 to the binding DC the next time you attempt to bind Heironeous.

GRANTED ABILITIES

Sword and Shield: You gain proficiency with the longsword and the heavy steel shield (or equivalent.)

Heroism: You gain a +4 competence bonus on saving throws versus spells and ability effects that influence your emotions.

Aura of Courage: Any allies within 20 feet who succumb to fear or despair effects are granted an additional save on the next round. Success means the ally shakes off the effect, failure means the effect persists as normal.

Smite Evil: Once per encounter, you can smite an evil opponent. You must declare you are using the smite before you roll the attack. On a successful smite evil attack, you deal an additional point of damage per binder level. If you also have levels in paladin, your binder levels stack with your paladin levels for this smite evil damage.

You should probably post this on the homebrew forums for more critiques but this seems fairly weak for a 4th level vestige.