Can you enchant a Monk's fists?

[Morph Bark]

I've heard this question pop up before, but never seen a definite answer. On the one hand: they're natural weapons, so no. On the other hand: they count as manufactured weapons, so yes. Furthermore, the Kensei can enchant his fists and manufactured weapons, but not his natural weapons.

Additionally, if the Monk's unarmed strike already counts as magical, can you enchant his fists with enhancements without needing to put a +1 on them first? So you can have keen unarmed strike if you are a Monk of level 4, or a Fist of the Forest of level 2?

[The Underlord]

I believe the reason you can't enchant them is because they have to be masterwork to be enchanted. Monk's fists are not masterwork IIRC

[dgnslyr]

What's the market price for a set of masterwork fists, then? Is it 600gp per fist, or 600gp for the whole set?

[hushblade]

RAW & RAI: Probably not

Would I allow it if suggested?: Its a monk, so why not give it a nice little boon?

[KillianHawkeye]

I've heard this question pop up before, but never seen a definite answer. On the one hand: they're natural weapons, so no. On the other hand: they count as manufactured weapons, so yes. Furthermore, the Kensei can enchant his fists and manufactured weapons, but not his natural weapons.

Additionally, if the Monk's unarmed strike already counts as magical, can you enchant his fists with enhancements without needing to put a +1 on them first? So you can have keen unarmed strike if you are a Monk of level 4, or a Fist of the Forest of level 2?

I think the thing stopping this from happening is that a Monk's fists are not items.

As you noted in your own post, it takes a prestige class to be able to emulate the effects of making unarmed strike a magical weapon.

Of course, the best solution is to just buy a necklace of natural attacks or whatever it's called.

[Zaq]

What's the market price for a set of masterwork fists, then? Is it 600gp per fist, or 600gp for the whole set?

Well, things have to be made masterwork at creation and can't be retroactively made masterwork . . . which means we have MASTERWORK BABY HANDS.

"This one was forged in the finest dwarven wombs and honed to perfection . . ." OK, this just got creepy. I'll stop now.

[Mummy king]

Furthermore, the Kensei can enchant his fists and manufactured weapons, but not his natural weapons.
Yes they can. Enchant them right up.

[Fax Celestis]

I've heard this question pop up before, but never seen a definite answer. On the one hand: they're natural weapons, so no. On the other hand: they count as manufactured weapons, so yes. Furthermore, the Kensei can enchant his fists and manufactured weapons, but not his natural weapons.

:smallconfused:


Signature Weapon (Su): The kensai chooses one of his weapons (it must be one for which he has the Weapon Focus feat) to become a signature weapon. Most kensai choose either a sword or bow for this weapon, but even a kensai’s natural weapons can be chosen. If the weapon is a manufactured one, it must be of at least masterwork quality.

[missmvicious]

For the longest time, we thought a Monk's hands, or any set of hands, really, would count as MW, since the hand that forges and wields the weapon is far superior in nature to any weapon it wields. My husband learned on this board that this is not the case. Apparently, nothing is MW unless it explicitly says so.

Still... it's not a bad little house rule to count it as MW. That way, at least you don't have to give up your Monk powers to have a decent weapon.

Also, Permanency works as a catch all for enchanting things that can't be enchanted normally. The rules are kept open for this very reason:

PHB 260: Permanency:
"... The DM may allow other selected spells to be made permanent. Researching this possible application of a spell costs as much time and money as independently researching the selected spell (see the Dungeon Master’s Guide for details). If the DM has already determined that the application is not possible, the research automatically fails. Note that you never learn what is possible except by the success or failure of your research."

So, either way, you can have those +5 Implacable Palms of Impedance (pg. 37 Magic Item Compendium) if you really wanted to.

Still... I'd house-rule that a Monk's hands, at least, counted as MW.

[Morph Bark]

Alright, that settles it then. Thanks! I'll just ask my DM and if that doesn't work, I can always just get some enchanted gauntlets. It's only a 2302 gp difference, but in this particular case it mattered.


"This one was forged in the finest dwarven wombs and honed to perfection . . ." OK, this just got creepy. I'll stop now.

Curiously enough, at first it was going to be a dwarf. :smalltongue:


Yes they can. Enchant them right up.

Problem: the character is not a Kensei. Monk 2/Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Fist of the Forest 1/Champion of Gwynharwyf 2 (though I was considering adding a level of Fist of the Forest).


:smallconfused:

Ah, specific exception then. Nvm, incorrectly remembered.

[Razgriez]

To my knowledge, the best way to get around that, has been mentioned in the form of Permanency. Other options, are magic items, and class features available most often to Prestige classes

Since a Monk's unarmed strikes counts as both as a mundane Manufactured Weapon, and Natural Weapons, spells which can affect either, can be made permanent within reason. (Indeed, One confirmed case of this being perfectly ok with the rules, is a Monk that has had Magic Fang +5 cast on his fist, from Forgotten Realms if I'm not mistaken.)

[GoatBoy]

By the rules, you can't enchant them directly, but there is the amulet of mighty fists in core, which is way overpriced. There is the necklace of natural weapons or something in Savage Species, which is 3.0 (or very early 3.5, I'm not sure) which you enchant in lieu of the weapon itself. The price goes up by 50% for each natural weapon the wearer has, though. I suppose an unarmed strike counts as a single natural attack but it is not specified.

Magic fang and greater magic fang can be permanency'd. These only give an enhancement bonus, not special weapon qualities.

Pathfinder features brass knuckles in its equipment section, which can be enchanted like a normal weapon, but the user can use their monk unarmed strike damage.

Hopefully one of those work for you.

[Keegan__D]

Brass knuckles, or a bracelet seems the best option. Or boots for a kicker. Even tattoos!

[NeoSeraphi]

Additionally, if the Monk's unarmed strike already counts as magical, can you enchant his fists with enhancements without needing to put a +1 on them first? So you can have keen unarmed strike if you are a Monk of level 4, or a Fist of the Forest of level 2?

:smallconfused:


This ability doubles the threat range of a weapon. Only piercing or slashing weapons can be keen. (If you roll this property randomly for an inappropriate weapon, reroll.) This benefit doesn’t stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon (such as the keen edge spell or the Improved Critical feat).

Emphasis mine. Even if you take the Versatile Unarmed Strike feat, that simply causes your unarmed strike to deal piercing or slashing damage, it does not make it a piercing or slashing weapon. So no, you can't make an unarmed strike keen, masterwork or not.

[Fax Celestis]

Two solutions to that: Versatile Unarmed Strike (PHB-II) allows your fists to be piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning however you choose, alterable with a swift action. Or, there's the impacting quality, which is keen for bludgeoning weapons.

[Morph Bark]

There is the necklace of natural weapons or something in Savage Species, which is 3.0 (or very early 3.5, I'm not sure) which you enchant in lieu of the weapon itself. The price goes up by 50% for each natural weapon the wearer has, though. I suppose an unarmed strike counts as a single natural attack but it is not specified.

Most helpful part for sure. Thanks! I'll check it out.

[Urpriest]

Most helpful part for sure. Thanks! I'll check it out.

Even better: the bottom of this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060707a) page has the item updated to 3.5.

[NeoSeraphi]

Even better: the bottom of this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060707a) page has the item updated to 3.5.

A magic item that lets you throw your natural bite attack. Finally, I can make a venerable "old-man" monk who throws his dentures. :smallbiggrin:

[navar100]

Another option is to take the feat Ancestral Relic and house rule it to use your fists. A feat cost might make it palatable if your DM is reluctant.

[Fax Celestis]

Another option is to take the feat Ancestral Relic and house rule it to use your fists. A feat cost might make it palatable if your DM is reluctant.

Bringing new meaning to "You have your father's hands".

[Mr. Zolrane]

Masterwork brass knuckles. Or even gloves if you prefer. Or boots. Or a headband... for a headbutter :smalltongue:

[NeoSeraphi]

Masterwork brass knuckles. Or even gloves if you prefer. Or boots. Or a headband... for a headbutter :smalltongue:

Hmm..technically helmets don't count as "armor" so you could wear a masterwork helmet and keep your monk abilities. Say it's made out of adamantine. Then you can Sunder things with your head.

[Mr. Zolrane]

Hmm..technically helmets don't count as "armor" so you could wear a masterwork helmet and keep your monk abilities. Say it's made out of adamantine. Then you can Sunder things with your head.

That is dirty, dirty munchkinry and I love it.

[Morph Bark]

Even better: the bottom of this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060707a) page has the item updated to 3.5.

For a Monk, any part of their body can be used for unarmed strikes. So if I'd apply throwing, would that mean I'd essentially have free move actions? :smalltongue:

[jaybird]

For a Monk, any part of their body can be used for unarmed strikes. So if I'd apply throwing, would that mean I'd essentially have free move actions? :smalltongue:

See, the first thing I thought when I saw the "any part of their body" section was "is there a weapon quality called 'thrusting' or something along those lines?".

[Suichimo]

Another option is to take the feat Ancestral Relic and house rule it to use your fists. A feat cost might make it palatable if your DM is reluctant.

Witness the strength passed down the "insert family name here" line for generations!

[Volos]

Witness the strength passed down the "insert family name here" line for generations!

Yes, just yes.

But on topic, what if you are a warforged? I could see a warforged walking into an armory and asking for his/her/its hands to be made masterwork.

[NeoSeraphi]

Yes, just yes.

But on topic, what if you are a warforged? I could see a warforged walking into an armory and asking for his/her/its hands to be made masterwork.

Obviously warforged monks have Battlefists installed.

Edit: Sorry. My post carried the implication that warforged monks exist, despite not having access to the flurry of blows or AC bonus class features. (Unless they spend a feat. A feat just to be allowed to access their class features that other monks get for free)

[Tsuzurao]

Obviously warforged monks have Battlefists installed.

Edit: Sorry. My post carried the implication that warforged monks exist, despite not having access to the flurry of blows or AC bonus class features. (Unless they spend a feat. A feat just to be allowed to access their class features that other monks get for free)

I'm pretty sure the standard composite plating doesn't trigger armour restriction penalties for classes (Monks, Battle Dancers, Druids, Healers...). Isn't it only if you use a feat to upgrade the plating that the penalty applies?

[Optimator]

I'm pretty sure the standard composite plating doesn't trigger armour restriction penalties for classes (Monks, Battle Dancers, Druids, Healers...). Isn't it only if you use a feat to upgrade the plating that the penalty applies?

Pretty sure it does. Hence the Unarmored Body feat.

[deuxhero]

Yep, its pointed out in a WotC web article on Druids in Eberron (under the section dealing with Warforged Druids and how the reincarnation spell works in the setting)

[JoeYounger]

If your group is pf friendly there's a level 2 cleric spell that turns non masterwork stuff into masterwork stuff that you could use to get mw fists! Material component of gold equal to the extra cost to mw the item originally. So 300 gold for weapons.

[Tsuzurao]

The wording suggests at least that Druids don't suffer armor penalty from Composite Plating, despite it having metal in it. That should also apply to Warforged Healers (as odd as such a combination would seem).

Huh... information is rather vague regarding whether the loss of AC Bonus, Fast Movement and Flurry of Blows happens automatically to a Warforged with Composite Plating. RoE suggests Monk as a good class for Warforged, but it never says anything either way about if they lose the above-listed benefits. It also only notes that upgrading the plating inflicts penalties to Monk-relevant skills, but doesn't say anything about if that does anything to the class abilities either.

I'll have to keep looking around.

EDIT: You'd think they'd mention it somewhere if the Composite Plating inflicts that penalty.

[NeoSeraphi]

"The warforged suffers a 5% failure chance for arcane spells with somatic components, similar to the spell failure chance for wearing light armor. Any class feature the warforged has that lets him ignore the spell failure chance for light armor also lets him ignore the failure chance for his composite plating".

This, along with the Unarmored Body feat, convince me that the RAI is Composite Plating is treated as light armor.

[Keegan__D]

"The warforged suffers a 5% failure chance for arcane spells with somatic components, similar to the spell failure chance for wearing light armor. Any class feature the warforged has that lets him ignore the spell failure chance for light armor also lets him ignore the failure chance for his composite plating".

This, along with the Unarmored Body feat, convince me that the RAI is Composite Plating is treated as light armor.

Emphasis mine
Seems to me that it is not light armor as RAW. Is there a power reason it should be light armor? Then for the monk, it should be RAW.

[Fax Celestis]

From the 3.5 FAQ:


Is a warforged considered to be wearing armor for the purpose of using special abilities, such as a monk’s fast movement?

The composite plating of a typical warforged doesn’t count as armor. Certain warforged feats, such as Adamantine Body (ECS 50) specifically state that the character is considered to be wearing armor, and thus would limit use of such abilities.

[holywhippet]

Could you just get a masterwork gauntlet and enchant that? Gauntlet attacks are considered to be unarmed attacks although they do have their own damage rating. Otherwise see if your DM will let you enchant some gloves.

[NeoSeraphi]

From the 3.5 FAQ:

Well, alright then. That solves that.

[Suichimo]

Could you just get a masterwork gauntlet and enchant that? Gauntlet attacks are considered to be unarmed attacks although they do have their own damage rating. Otherwise see if your DM will let you enchant some gloves.

Isn't the damage on them just to make them deal lethal damage, rather than subdual? Same normal damage as an unarmed attack.

[Keld Denar]

See, the first thing I thought when I saw the "any part of their body" section was "is there a weapon quality called 'thrusting' or something along those lines?".

There is...impaling...

Oh yea, I just went there...

[Safety Sword]

There is...impaling...

Oh yea, I just went there...

Fists of Frost. Instant cold beer any time, anywhere.

[panaikhan]

In a campaign I was in, the DM handed out a really strange magical item for the Monk.

"Ring of Brass Knuckles"
Normally a plain gold ring, this item creates additional rings (one on each finger) joined together by a thick plate when the hand is balled into a fist. The wearer is considered Armed, and a strike with the Ring does damage equal to a gauntlet sized for the wearer.
If worn by a Monk, they may elect to use their own unarmed damage rating instead of the Ring's.
The Ring may be enchanted in the same manner as a Weapon (increased enhgantment bonus or additional qualities)

[Heliomance]

It may not be RAW, but there's no good reason not to allow enchanted handwraps or gloves that would apply weapon bonuses to unarmed strikes at the same price as enchanting a weapon.

[Curmudgeon]

Could you just get a masterwork gauntlet and enchant that? Gauntlet attacks are considered to be unarmed attacks although they do have their own damage rating. Otherwise see if your DM will let you enchant some gloves.
Do you really want all the problems associated with this idea? Just think it through:
Gauntlets have a listed damage figure on the weapons table which is much lower than what Monks dish out without gauntlets.
Monks have no gauntlet weapon proficiency so that's going to impose a penalty, unless you do some hand-waving based on "otherwise considered an unarmed attack" (after you've done the requisite hand-waving to give Monks proficiency with unarmed attacks :smallwink:).
Gauntlets are included with armor. A stickler DM will void any Monk class feature that's dependent on being unarmored if the Monk wears gauntlets.
Banded Mail: The suit includes gauntlets.
Unarmed strikes are normally performed with any and all parts of the body. Now you have to keep track of which body part does the strike, because the magical enhancements only apply to fist attacks.
On the other hand, there's a simple solution already in the rules: a Necklace of Natural Attacks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060707a) will do everything you want for enhancing any natural attack, including unarmed strike.

[Ksheep]

Yeah, I'd have to say Necklace of Natural Attacks for your question.

However, another question, which some may find more pertinent…
It states in the Player's Handbook that a monk's fists can do up to 2d8 damage. Can one dismember the fists and use them as improvised weapons for the same damage?

[Suichimo]

It may not be RAW, but there's no good reason not to allow enchanted handwraps or gloves that would apply weapon bonuses to unarmed strikes at the same price as enchanting a weapon.

This is actually what Neverwinter Nights 1, at least, does. You can find stuff like Gloves of the Yellow Rose which will enhance your unarmed strikes. So its at least somewhat official, as its in a licensed product.

[Titanium Fox]

I personally get around this with handwraps. Get a pair of handwraps, and enchant them. Sure, it costs double the normal cost because you have to enchant two of them, but in most of my campaign worlds gold tends to flow like water, so it's generally not that big of a deal. Just get some masterwork handwraps, and enchant them to taste.

[Rubik]

Be a Psiforged Tashalatoran soulbound weapon psywar 5/psychic weapon master 10/kensai 5 (using soulbound weapon and PWM to modify your unarmed strike) with Ancestral Relic (unarmed strike), a necklace of natural attacks.

The enhancement bonuses don't stack, so you'd have:

+5 enhancement bonus (soulbound weapon)
+9 weapon qualities (PMW)
+4 weapon qualities (kensai)
+9 weapon qualities (Ancestral Relic)
+9 weapon qualities (necklace)

What am I missing here? I'm sure I can get more. Can we somehow get MORE onto this build?

[Curmudgeon]

I personally get around this with handwraps. Get a pair of handwraps, and enchant them. Sure, it costs double the normal cost because you have to enchant two of them, but in most of my campaign worlds gold tends to flow like water, so it's generally not that big of a deal. Just get some masterwork handwraps, and enchant them to taste.
So what happens when someone wearing handwraps tries to use feats like Circle Kick, Snap Kick, Roundabout Kick, or Flying Kick? Do you now need a pair of footwraps as well?

"Getting around" the problem in the way you suggest just creates different problems.

[Rubik]

Be a Psiforged Tashalatoran soulbound weapon psywar 5/psychic weapon master 10/kensai 5 (using soulbound weapon and PWM to modify your unarmed strike) with Ancestral Relic (unarmed strike), a necklace of natural attacks.

The enhancement bonuses don't stack, so you'd have:

+5 enhancement bonus (soulbound weapon)
+9 weapon qualities (PMW)
+4 weapon qualities (kensai)
+9 weapon qualities (Ancestral Relic)
+9 weapon qualities (necklace)

What am I missing here? I'm sure I can get more. Can we somehow get MORE onto this build?Oh! And I forgot the augmentation!

An extra +2 in weapon qualities if you Overchannel by +1 and fully augment!

So that's 5+9+4+9+9+2= a +38 weapon at level 20!

Granted, your ML sucks, and you can only get +6 of that a few times per day, but you can easily get the +5 enhancement bonus from a tooth of Leraje if you want, to make up for a bit of it.

[Trixie]

That should also apply to Warforged Healers (as odd as such a combination would seem).

Why odd? :smallconfused: I'd see battlefield doctors as legit and very powerful usage of them, doubly so if they can use Repair line of spells, too.


So what happens when someone wearing handwraps tries to use feats like Circle Kick, Snap Kick, Roundabout Kick, or Flying Kick? Do you now need a pair of footwraps as well?

"Getting around" the problem in the way you suggest just creates different problems.

This, though, I'm pretty sure there is combination of feats that lets you move wraps around as free action :smalltongue:

[Suichimo]

So what happens when someone wearing handwraps tries to use feats like Circle Kick, Snap Kick, Roundabout Kick, or Flying Kick? Do you now need a pair of footwraps as well?

"Getting around" the problem in the way you suggest just creates different problems.

"The energy in these mystical wraps envelops your entire body. You're entire body feels warm and you realize that your bare handed blows are now lighting objects, and people, on fire."

Easy enough to get around. Just limit it to two.

[Urpriest]

Unarmed strikes are normally performed with any and all parts of the body. Now you have to keep track of which body part does the strike, because the magical enhancements only apply to fist attacks.


Just looked at the description for gauntlets in the PHB, and this is false. Gauntlets let you deal lethal damage with unarmed strikes period: doesn't matter which limbs you use. If you're going to quibble about the dictionary meaning of the word gauntlet or something silly like that, be aware that the description of the gauntlet doesn't state that your ability to make lethal strikes with them is because you are using a metal striking surface: it could just as easily be due to your ability to use the weight of the gauntlets as a counterbalance for your attacks.

[Curmudgeon]

Easy enough to get around. Just limit it to two.
So a Thri-Kreen Monk is going to cover only half its hands with wraps for the full effect?

Just looked at the description for gauntlets in the PHB, and this is false. Gauntlets let you deal lethal damage with unarmed strikes period: doesn't matter which limbs you use.

A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. That's not a "a strike while wearing a gauntlet".

[Morph Bark]

So what happens when someone wearing handwraps tries to use feats like Circle Kick, Snap Kick, Roundabout Kick, or Flying Kick? Do you now need a pair of footwraps as well?

"Getting around" the problem in the way you suggest just creates different problems.

I've got Flying Kick and after finding a way to ditch my gauntlets (going for the necklace of natural attacks like GoatBoy suggested) I took Touch of Golden Ice as my last remaining feat.

Build:
Evarya, the Fist of the World
Dragonborn Arctic Goliath
Str 16, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 8 (pre racial mods)

Level 1: Chaos Monk of the Overpowering Way 1, 4 ranks in Jump, Tumble, Survival (skill wilderness dweller), Balance, Concentration
Flaws: Shaky, Bestial Instinct (-3 on ranged attacks, -2 on all non-natural melee weapon attacks)
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike [B], Power Attack [B], Knight of Stars [F], Righteous Wrath [F], Great Fortitude

Level 2: Lion Totem Goliath Barbarian 1, 4 ranks in Handle Animal
Feat: Touch of Golden Ice

Level 3: Chaos Monk of the Overpowering Way 2, 1 rank in Balance, Tumble (5 ranks total), 2 ranks Jump (6 ranks total)
Feat: Improved Bull Rush [B], Knockback

Level 4: Fighter 1, 2 ranks in Intimidate
Feat: Rampaging Bull Rush

Level 5: Warblade 1, 4 ranks in Intimidate (6 total)
Maneuvers: Moment of Perfect Mind, Action Before Thought, Wall of Blades, Bolstering Voice (stance)

Level 6: Fist of the Forest, 1 rank in Intimidate (7 total), 1 rank in Jump (7 ranks total)
Feat: Flying Kick

Level 7: Fighter 2 (Dungeoncrasher), 2 ranks in Intimidate (9 total)

Level 8: Champion of Gwynharwyf 1, Nimble Charge and Twisted Charge skill tricks

Level 9: Champion of Gwynharwyf 2, 4 skill points left
Feat: Shock Trooper

Items:
+1 transmuting necklace of natural attacks (18600 gp)
belt of battle (12000 gp)
boots of the battlecharger (2000 gp)
greatreach bracers (2000 gp)
cold weather outfit (8 gp)
1392 gp remaining

[Urpriest]

That's not a "a strike while wearing a gauntlet".

Indeed, a strike with a gauntlet is considered an unarmed strike, except in that, as stated in the preceding sentence, you do lethal damage. According to the rules for unarmed strikes, an unarmed strike may be a punch, kick, head butt, or other type of attack. The gauntlet's description does nothing to modify this. All that that sentence does is specify that, even if you insist on attacking with the gauntlet and neglect your ability to make lethal unarmed strikes with the rest of your body, you still follow all of the other rules for unarmed strikes.

[TheRinni]

I believe the reason you can't enchant them is because they have to be masterwork to be enchanted. Monk's fists are not masterwork IIRC

If you don't mind, could you post the source for this? I'm unable to find the book/page on my own.

EDIT: The only-masterwork-items-can-be-enchanted part, not the monks-firsts-are-not-masterwork part. xD

[Heliomance]

So what happens when someone wearing handwraps tries to use feats like Circle Kick, Snap Kick, Roundabout Kick, or Flying Kick? Do you now need a pair of footwraps as well?

"Getting around" the problem in the way you suggest just creates different problems.

Feat names are purely fluff and have no mechanics restrictions. Nowhere in those feats does it state that you need to use your feet to use them. They're unarmed strikes like any other, and as such can be performed using any part of the body.

Honestly, Curmudgeon, for someone that is normally such an advocate of strict RAW, I'm disappointed in you.

[Curmudgeon]

Feat names are purely fluff and have no mechanics restrictions. Nowhere in those feats does it state that you need to use your feet to use them. They're unarmed strikes like any other, and as such can be performed using any part of the body.

Honestly, Curmudgeon, for someone that is normally such an advocate of strict RAW, I'm disappointed in you.
I'm just trying to maintain consistency. If you need hand wraps for both hands, shouldn't you also need foot wraps, elbow pads, knee pads, and so on? Once you start requiring more than one device to enhance your single unarmed attack, where do you stop?

If you're going to make a house rule to address what you see as a problem, you take on the issues associated with implementing that house rule. So far nobody has come up with a satisfactory explanation of why you would need two items for hands, but none for other body parts.

[Heliomance]

As you can't TWF with just your unarmed strike, I don't see any reason why you would need two items. One set of handwraps, priced and enchanted as a single item, takes up the hands slot. Done.

[Fax Celestis]

If you don't mind, could you post the source for this? I'm unable to find the book/page on my own.

EDIT: The only-masterwork-items-can-be-enchanted part, not the monks-firsts-are-not-masterwork part. xD

Right here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#creatingMagicWeapons)


Creating Magic Weapons

To create a magic weapon, a character needs a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools. She also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being the weapon or the pieces of the weapon to be assembled. Only a masterwork weapon can become a magic weapon, and the masterwork cost is added to the total cost to determine final market value. Additional magic supplies costs for the materials are subsumed in the cost for creating the magic weapon—half the base price given on Table: Weapons, according to the weapon’s total effective bonus.

[Ksheep]

What's to say that unarmed strikes are non-masterwork? Even the highest-caliber of craftsmen cannot make a body on their own, and most attempts to do so are rather poor imitations (golems), or are masterwork themselves (warforged). Therefore, if the closest that any craftsperson can get to the real mccoy is masterwork, shouldn't that mean that the original model, which is in many ways superior, also be masterwork?

[NeoSeraphi]

What's to say that unarmed strikes are non-masterwork?

The fact that if unarmed strikes were masterwork, we'd all get +1 to hit with them.

[Vowtz]

Magic Fang, Greater
Transmutation
Level: Drd 3, Rgr 3
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One living creature
Duration: 1 hour/level
This spell functions like magic fang, except
that the enhancement bonus on attack and
damage rolls is +1 per four caster levels
(maximum +5).
Alternatively, you may imbue all of the
creature’s natural weapons with a +1 enhancement
bonus (regardless of your caster
level).
Greater magic fang can be made permanent
with a permanency spell.

[NeoSeraphi]

Greater magic fang can be made permanent
with a permanency spell.

How the heck does that even work? Permanency is a sorc/wiz spell, greater magic fang is a druid/ranger spell.

[Heatwizard]

How the heck does that even work? Permanency is a sorc/wiz spell, greater magic fang is a druid/ranger spell.

The druid casts Fang, and then the wizard glues it down.

[Morph Bark]

A mystic theurge did it.

[Ksheep]

The fact that if unarmed strikes were masterwork, we'd all get +1 to hit with them.

Well, why don't we? That +1 represents the fact that the weapon is finely crafted, with near-perfect balance. The weapon effectively becomes an extension of your arm, making it much easier to control. Your unarmed strikes, meanwhile, are PART of your body, so you should be able to control your strikes a fair bit easier. Don't have to worry about swinging several pounds of metal with your arm.

However, you also have to be more careful avoiding your opponent's weapon. When using a weapon, you can just knock it out of the way without worrying. With fists, you don't want to do that. You'd have to be more careful to avoid it, and the difficulty of avoiding said weapons could offset the ease of hitting the desired area.

[NeoSeraphi]

Well, why don't we?

Off the top of my head, I'd guess it's because giving every character an extra 300 gp worth of bonus for free seems unbalanced to most designers.

[Fax Celestis]

Well, why don't we?

Because the rules don't say we do.

Following your logic of "It makes sense but it's not supported by the rules", I could make an argument for, say, elves to get detect secret doors (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectSecretDoors.htm) as a spell-like ability because they already have their innate door-detection and the rules don't say that they shouldn't have it, just that they're good at detecting secret doors.

You can house-rule it, sure. I wouldn't: the hand-straps example is a better fix, as is making an amulet of mighty fists or amulet of natural attacks more affordable and enchantable with features more than just an enhancement bonus.

[NeoSeraphi]

As this was pointed out to me in my Stunning Fist master homebrew class, the problem with allowing your bare fists to be enchanted (when a monk considers his entire body to be an unarmed strike) is what happens when you put the flaming weapon enhancement on your monk? Does he burst into flames like Johnny Storm? Yes, that sounds awesome, but that constant 1d6 fire damage to your other equipment will eventually break it all.

[Urpriest]

As this was pointed out to me in my Stunning Fist master homebrew class, the problem with allowing your bare fists to be enchanted (when a monk considers his entire body to be an unarmed strike) is what happens when you put the flaming weapon enhancement on your monk? Does he burst into flames like Johnny Storm? Yes, that sounds awesome, but that constant 1d6 fire damage to your other equipment will eventually break it all.

Flaming Swords can be turned on and off via command word. Though frankly I'd just leave it on anyway.

[NeoSeraphi]

Flaming Swords can be turned on and off via command word. Though frankly I'd just leave it on anyway.

True. Though, if all fists were masterwork, you could technically knock someone out, enchant him while he's asleep, and then say the command word once. Then he wakes up, on fire, and doesn't know the phrase to turn it off.

Hilarious.

[Morph Bark]

True. Though, if all fists were masterwork, you could technically knock someone out, enchant him while he's asleep, and then say the command word once. Then he wakes up, on fire, and doesn't know the phrase to turn it off.

Hilarious.

I wonder if that would work on a Kensai who hasn't enchanted his unarmed strike beyond +1 yet (but whose level is high enough). :smallwink:

[Vowtz]

How the heck does that even work? Permanency is a sorc/wiz spell, greater magic fang is a druid/ranger spell.A high level cleric could mimic both spells with two miracles.