Low Level, Core Only, Wizard tactics

[Torq]

I'll be playing in a campaign very shortly and have chosen to play the wizard. I've always wanted to, but usually my brother beats me to the punch (turd) or the campaign falls through. I have however DM'd and made some pretty fun bad-guy-wizards that leave the party disbelieving that the wizard was only a level or two higher than themselves so I'm pretty familiar with optimizing a wizard for play in a single encounter or two.

However, in my campaigns, all splat material is allowed so making a 3rd level wizard formidable is not a stretch. In the campaign I'll be playing (Christmas day with family), we're all starting at level one and only core books are allowed. While things like ACFs are almost definitely not allowed (no Abrupt Jaunt :(), if a feat is not too cheesy, it might be ok with appropriate pleading. The DM says that we'll probably make it to 3rd level by the end of the session, and 2nd level before we start the challenging part of the adventure. In theory, the campaign will pick up at a later date when we can get all of us back together again, but for now, I'm concerned with levels 1-3.

Even though the DM isn't an optimizer and doesn't throw unreasonable challenges at the party, the group is probably "under-optimized." As such, I'm aiming to do BFC with a Conjurer to try to make the bad guys easier to hit and less of a threat (basically, the God role).

The thing is, since I've never played the wizard for any length of time longer than a few encounters, I don't really have much practical knowledge on spell selection.

For the questions:

1) For example, is Mage Armor even worth the spell slot in actual play, or would a spell that keeps me from getting attacked at all be better? In that same vein, should I even worry about a decent DEX score? Currently, I've got it at 16, planning on using a couple crossbows with the Unseen Servant reloading them for me while I do other stuff, but if the AC boost isn't worth it, I might dump DEX for more CON and CHA (DM is big into role-playing and info gathering). If - in actual play, not theory - casting Enlarge Person on the Guisarme-wielding-trip-machine is more likely to keep me from dying than Mage Armor, I'd rather use the slot for that.

2) I'll probably keep a SMI memorized for utility, and a scroll of Unseen Servant for the same reason. Does that seem practical? If it's a dark dungeon, US would be great to carry the torch and maybe cast Pyrotechnics on at 3rd level.

3) And is Scribing Scrolls all that practical? I think so, but I'm not sure. For 1XP, 12.5gp, and 24 minutes of my time, it seems like not a bad way to trade gold in for more spells in the dungeon.

4) Grease will be used. But can anyone see a reason to memorize Obscuring Mist for the dungeon? I guess you'd have to know whether or not sneaking around will be needed in the dungeon.

5) Would Augment Summoning be a good feat for a core only game if I'm planning on taking Spell Focus (Conj.) anyway? I think since the web sticks around after the spider leaves, it makes a 2nd spell out of a 1st level one and gives detect invisibility to boot. And the badger isn't a bad flanker in an un-optimized game. Or am I off here?

6) Kind of in the same vein as the Mage Armor question, Toad familiar for the extra HP, or Raven for utility?

My current plan is:

Human

36 point buy (NICE!)

STR 8; DEX 16; CON 14; INT 18; WIS 12; CHA 8

Wiz1: Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning
Wiz2:
Wiz3: Improved Initiative or Extend Spell

Rest of party:

Ftr1: Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, uses guisarme
Cleric or Druid
Rogue
Some 5th person - no idea

[ericgrau]

1) When you're replacing offense then true it's questionable. OTOH 17 AC is a lot at level 1. One thing's for sure I wouldn't prepare more than one buff because you only get even 1 buffing round half the time, and spending a combat round on buffing isn't worth it. Ya con is usually better than dex.
2) Likewise when your spell slots are limited I wouldn't burn too many (if any) on utility. A scroll is ok. If you're going to do US + pyrotechnics then you'll need an area with more than 120 foot rooms or a way to keep your party safe from it. In that case if it's a daily tactic you'd prepare both spells rather than using a scroll.
3) Scribing scrolls is epic for rarely used utility to save spell slots and not good for spells that you should be preparing every day anyway.
4) Obscuring mist is defense / utility. Later I'd say obscuring mist > grease when you have better higher level offense. At level 3 I'd say grease > obscuring mist.
5) Summoning is generally weak, even with boosts it's still somewhat below par. It is good utility though often the lower level summons are plenty for that purpose. You could find tricky monsters with good special abilities, a flanker for the rogue, etc. and do pretty well, but if you expected your summons to single handedly dominate the battle-field then prepare to be underwhelmed. At low levels summons also have low duration.
6) Toad is better levels 1-5 when 3 HP matters, anything else levels 6+

Some of the best spells at levels 1-3 are sleep, maybe color spray (but then you need mage armor), web, flaming sphere, glitterdust, maybe grease, maybe false life (again, 1 buff limit and not too many non-offense spells either) and pyrotechnics.

[gkathellar]

Sleep, Grease and Color Spray are your essential early level Save-or-Sucks in Core. The fact that all of them are area effects really sweetens the pot.

[Big Fau]

Here you go. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002)

[Torq]

Sleep, Grease and Color Spray are your essential early level Save-or-Sucks in Core. The fact that all of them are area effects really sweetens the pot.

One more question then:

I know that Evocation is the easy choice for banned school when all supplemental material is used. What about core only though?

I was going to ban Necro and Ench, but sleep is what really tore at that decision. Ban Necro and Evocation instead?

I know the DM has, in the past, thrown a hoard of Kobolds with crossbows at a party and a mage with a fireball makes short work of that situation, but I guess there are other ways around that.

[gkathellar]

Bear in mind that a hoard of kobolds could be disabled nicely by Stinking Cloud or Sleet Storm, too.

The real losses of banning Evocation are certain staple tricks: Shatter, Wind Wall, Resilient Sphere, Wall of Force, Contingency and Forcecage all come to mind as strong evocation spells. You can use the Shadow line of spells to duplicate most of these tricks at later levels, but there's a reason why specializing is always a tough choice.

[dextercorvia]

One more question then:

I know that Evocation is the easy choice for banned school when all supplemental material is used. What about core only though?

I was going to ban Necro and Ench, but sleep is what really tore at that decision. Ban Necro and Evocation instead?

I know the DM has, in the past, thrown a hoard of Kobolds with crossbows at a party and a mage with a fireball makes short work of that situation, but I guess there are other ways around that.

In Core at low levels Evocation is incredibly replaceable. If you are going Conjurer, I would also ditch Enchantment. Sleep is the hardest of the big three to reliably use. If you do want direct damage, you can keep Evocation and drop Necromancy -- this is something that I do from time to time if the Orbs aren't available.

Scrolls would be awesome, if they worked like you said. Unfortunately, you need 24 hours to craft one.

[0Megabyte]

I found grease, color spray, sleep, ray of enfeeblement and enlarge person to be my favorite first level spells. plus mage armor.

At second level, I discovered the joy of glitterdust, mirror image, and Bull's Strength, among others.

Get one or two first level pearls of power, and some metamagic wands like extend, lesser, plus some scrolls, and you have my normal set up for a wizard.

[Torq]

In Core at low levels Evocation is incredibly replaceable. If you are going Conjurer, I would also ditch Enchantment. Sleep is the hardest of the big three to reliably use. If you do want direct damage, you can keep Evocation and drop Necromancy -- this is something that I do from time to time if the Orbs aren't available.

Scrolls would be awesome, if they worked like you said. Unfortunately, you need 24 hours to craft one.

I thought it was 1day/1000gp of base cost. I always took one day to be 16 hours worth of active work.

Base cost = Spell lvl.*CL*25gp = 1*1*25

Then time to create would be:

16hrs/1000gp*25gp = 0.4hrs = 24 minutes

Right?



Sleep sounds like the debuff to use if I'm not going to cast Mage Armor. I like Color Spray better, but that means I have to get into the thick of it and I'd want Mage Armor for that - which burns up two of the three 1st lvl spell slots I have at 1st level. I think I'd rather be able to cast one effective spell per encounter and carry around a few situation-specific scrolls...

[Torq]

Bear in mind that a hoard of kobolds could be disabled nicely by Stinking Cloud or Sleet Storm, too.

The real losses of banning Evocation are certain staple tricks: Shatter, Wind Wall, Resilient Sphere, Wall of Force, Contingency and Forcecage all come to mind as strong evocation spells. You can use the Shadow line of spells to duplicate most of these tricks at later levels, but there's a reason why specializing is always a tough choice.

Good call on Stinking Cloud and Sleet Storm.

I'm kind of hung up on Augment Summoning. I think I might scrap that feat and replace it with Improved Initiative...

Maybe carry around a scroll of SMI and save either one or no spell slots for it.

[Callyn]

You can craft any one item for eight hours a day and you need to work a full eight hours to make any progress. Because of this, scrolls take a day to make.

You can craft 24 hours a day if you want to and have a way to work around the clock, but you need to work on 3 separate items.

[Ifni]

Buy a riding dog when you get the chance. Seriously, they will be your friend when you run into zombies and skeletons, or anything else that Color Spray and Sleep don't work on. Grease is good, but at L1 it lasts for only one round, which makes it significantly less useful (and summoning is pretty bad at L1, for the same reason - note this also applies to CL1 scrolls of SM1).

I've found Color Spray to be much more usable than Sleep in confined areas, just because Sleep has that 1-round casting time, and you don't generally get to see the bad guys coming from far enough away to exploit the improved range. YMMV depending on dungeon design, and whether your GM sees "spellcaster chanting a lengthy disrupt-able spell" as a synonym for "target!" Yes, the short range on Color Spray is dangerous, but you can often hide behind the meatshield and angle it past them (just due to how the 15ft cone template works), and against multiple low-Will-save opponents the spell will usually take at least a few of them out.

If you have a mount, you can do move-cast-move once you get some Concentration ranks, the DC for the check is pretty low. In typical dungeons, this works best for Small characters, horses don't always fit.

Mage Armor... yeah, it's iffy at L1, by L3 or so the duration is high enough to be worthwhile. It also depends on how many encounters you're expecting to fight in a day, and how closely spaced they'll be - if you're dungeon-delving in one-hour bursts containing several encounters, then Mage Armor is great! :smallwink: At L1, I would generally prep Enlarge Person over Mage Armor, but keep in mind that it's better to cast buffs before your meatshield kicks down the door, rather than once you start combat - 1-round casting times can make you a target, which is bad when you have 6 HP.

I like having high Dexterity: a lot of the better no-save Core spells are ranged touch attacks (ray of enfeeblement, scorching ray, enervation), and if you're restricted to Core, you may find Point Blank + Precise Shot worthwhile. That said, it's totally possible to completely ignore ranged touch attacks (especially if you're banning, say, necro+evoc), and if you're doing that then Dex isn't so important. Con should always be at least decent, but 14 should be okay imx.

Most of my casters went with a Rat familiar for the +2 to Fort saves - it's much, MUCH more important than 3 HP at higher levels. Then again, if you're only concerned with L1-3, Toad might actually be worthwhile. I probably wouldn't go with Raven in your situation, unless you wanted it for RP reasons.

[dextercorvia]

I thought it was 1day/1000gp of base cost. I always took one day to be 16 hours worth of active work.

Base cost = Spell lvl.*CL*25gp = 1*1*25

Then time to create would be:

16hrs/1000gp*25gp = 0.4hrs = 24 minutes

Right?



Creating an item requires one day per 1,000 gp in the item’s base price, with a minimum of at least one day

Yes, but as above, you have to have at least 8 hours to work per item. The good news is you can craft a scroll containing multiple spells, but this is only so useful until you can finance major crafting.

[Torq]

Yes, but as above, you have to have at least 8 hours to work per item. The good news is you can craft a scroll containing multiple spells, but this is only so useful until you can finance major crafting.

Ah. Ok. So, if I'm willing to work for 8 hours straight, and spend 250gp (20 scrolls * 12.5gp/scroll), I can make 20 scrolls (8hours/24 minutes=20 scrolls), combined in to one (or a few maybe)? Or am I reading your "good new" too optimistically?

Regardless, are there special material considerations or extra cost for multiple spells on a single scroll?

Sorry, I've never dealt with actually playing the wizard. I just create them as DM and give them the scrolls that I say they get.

[Aron Times]

Hawk familiar has a +14 Spot modifier. Very useful for scouting, and it's not obviously arcane; falconry has been around for ages, and is not thematically tied to wizardry, so you won't get any strange looks compared to other familiars.

Compare it to the rat familiar, which will get you thrown out of reputable inns, taverns, and restaurants. The hawk can simply perch on the tallest tree in town and eavesdrop on the clumsy groundlings below, while you eat. Or you can take the bird with you, and use him as an icebreaker.

"Whoa, you have a hawk!"

Just keep your bird away from genre-savvy bandit camps.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0154.html

[dextercorvia]

Ah. Ok. So, if I'm willing to work for 8 hours straight, and spend 250gp (20 scrolls * 12.5gp/scroll), I can make 20 scrolls (8hours/24 minutes=20 scrolls), combined in to one (or a few maybe)? Or am I reading your "good new" too optimistically?

Regardless, are there special material considerations or extra cost for multiple spells on a single scroll?

Sorry, I've never dealt with actually playing the wizard. I just create them as DM and give them the scrolls that I say they get.

It is one scroll technically, just containing multiple spells. This also has the benefit, that no matter what spell you want to cast, you only have to draw the one item -- so you don't look like a walking library. It costs no extra. Of course, you can't actually make a scroll containing 20 1st level spells in a single day, because you have to expend the spells (as if cast) to create the item.

Required Reading if you plan to use scribe scroll:

Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) and here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#creatingScrolls).

[Torq]

It is one scroll technically, just containing multiple spells. This also has the benefit, that no matter what spell you want to cast, you only have to draw the one item -- so you don't look like a walking library. It costs no extra. Of course, you can't actually make a scroll containing 20 1st level spells in a single day, because you have to expend the spells (as if cast) to create the item.

Required Reading if you plan to use scribe scroll:

Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) and here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#creatingScrolls).

I was more or less trying to make sure I had the concept right...but you might've saved me from a 'duh moment.' Thanks.


Hawk familiar has a +14 Spot modifier. Very useful for scouting, and it's not obviously arcane; falconry has been around for ages, and is not thematically tied to wizardry, so you won't get any strange looks compared to other familiars.

Compare it to the rat familiar, which will get you thrown out of reputable inns, taverns, and restaurants. The hawk can simply perch on the tallest tree in town and eavesdrop on the clumsy groundlings below, while you eat. Or you can take the bird with you, and use him as an icebreaker.

"Whoa, you have a hawk!"

Just keep your bird away from genre-savvy bandit camps.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0154.html

Good/hilarious point.

[Torq]

Most of my casters went with a Rat familiar for the +2 to Fort saves - it's much, MUCH more important than 3 HP at higher levels. Then again, if you're only concerned with L1-3, Toad might actually be worthwhile. I probably wouldn't go with Raven in your situation, unless you wanted it for RP reasons.

The reason I was considering Raven was that it can speak a language from level 1 on which makes for a good scout. I've never had a familiar so that may seem more useful than it actually is in game play.

I'm still torn on my choice of feats. Augment summoning seems less and less good for a wizard who just summons to help with BFC (webbing and flanking). I didn't realize how limited feat selection was in core-only for a wizard though. I guess I'll probably go with Spell Focus (Conjuration), and Improved Initiative at 1st level, then Extend Spell at 3rd and just use it to make extended scrolls for 6hr Mage Armor at 3rd level. Until then, no Mage Armor.

[Torq]

[Thread Necro]

So we've played the first few sessions of this campaign and I've just hit level three.

I ended up banning evocation and necromancy.

At this point I have the following in my spellbook:

1st: Grease, Obscuring Mist, Mage Armor, SM I, Unseen Servant, Enlarge Person, Color Spray, Identify, Benign Transposition, Silent Image

Benign Transposition was allowed on the condition that the spell description is altered so that one of the targets must be the cast.

I've used Obscuring Mist once to keep an ambushing horde of Goblins with Javelins from being able to target the party, Grease in almost every battle, Enlarge in most battles and US, SM I, Mount, and Benign Transposition 1-2 times each with the Benign Transposition not really paying off.

Right now, I'm in the process of choosing two second level spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/sorcererWizardSpells.htm#secondLevelSorcererWizard Spells).

Based on what we've faced in the past, I like Glitterdust (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glitterdust.htm), Pyrotechnics (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/pyrotechnics.htm), Levitate, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/levitate.htm) Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibility.htm), Web (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm), and Fog Cloud. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fogCloud.htm)

Before I choose, I'd like to ask about the blinding effect of Glitterdust. If someone enters the AoE after the spell is cast, but during the duration of the spell, are they blinded as well?

Also, if we have a Druid casting Entangle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/entangle.htm), it seems the only advantage of Web is it's usability indoors. Otherwise, the cover it grants takes away the option of pelting the bad guys with arrows. Is Web worth the spell?

Finally, my DM is offering me the option of taking a feat that allows me to take any spell from any supplemental book I'd like, at the cost of 100gp/spell level. Since the rest of the game is core, would the extra versatility be worth it, or should I just take Craft Wondrous Item at third and start making Pearls of Power.

[/Thread Necro]

[Eldariel]

Web's very strong in spite of having access to Entangle. As you said, there are environments in which Entangle cannot be cast and Web-duration is much longer anyhow. Additionally, Web is more brutal on a successful save. And yeah, having two persons capable of casting one or the other tends to be preferable to having only one so yeah, learn Web.

And the feat, take it. Like, there's so much fun stuff in splatbooks that it'd be a pity to pass up on it. Of course try and moderate your power a bit and avoid e.g. Celerity but stuff like Benign and Baleful Transposition, Greater Mirror Image, Bands of Steel, Unluck, Greater Blink, etc. are all good fun and pretty useful. Then of course, there's stuff like Superior Resistance, Assay Resistance and Anticipate Teleport that's just damn useful (and of course, tons upon tons of Plain Damn Strong spells). 100gp/level is a very reasonable price.

[u-b]

As for feat - not now. While there ARE good second-level spells outside core, they are either not as good as required and/or really come online at higher levels, when there are even better spells to choose from.

About second level spells: I see you are missing Mirror Image and (eventualm like at level 4 with lesser rod) Rope Trick. I would skip Fog Cloud for any of these.

As I played, Glitterdust "covers" everything in area when it is cast and is no longer in the air.

[Torq]

I didn't consider Mirror Image because over the course of 3 levels, I've had one melee attack made against my character.

I'll almost definitely pick up Rope Trick as one of my 4th level spells as long as I've picked up a Lesser Extend Rod.

Seems like the general consensus is that the feat to take spells outside of core is worth it even with the 100gp/level stipulation, but maybe not until later levels. So I'll probably go with Craft Wondrous Item at 3rd.

So, I'll be taking Web I guess. I'm still up in the air for my second spell. If Glitterdust doesn't blind people entering the AoE after the initial casting, I'll probably go with that for the second level.

[Gavinfoxx]

Also good to buy is some guard mules, with a custom set of tricks known (attack, attack any, guard). They are great tanks at low level.

[Aegis013]

Silent image is great for tons of situations in core-only early levels. It's even great at high levels. It's especially good if you can think of ridiculous and creative ways to use it.

[Gavinfoxx]

Oh yea. You might want to talk to your DM about what illusions can and can't do, and what interaction means and what a failed save on illusions means...

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Book_of_Gears_%283.5e_Sourcebook%29/Magic#Illusion_Magic:_I_Don.27t_Believe_This_Crap

[u-b]

Glitterdust is not questioned. Must have.

[Greyfeld85]

Silent image is great for tons of situations in core-only early levels. It's even great at high levels. It's especially good if you can think of ridiculous and creative ways to use it.

Some very simple uses for Silent Image are:


Replicate Obscuring Mist
Create a fake wall to block line of sight
Create fake floors to cover pits/holes
Create fake cliff face extensions to real cliffs
Cover doors with fake walls to hide entrances/exits


Keep in mind that when you pull off any of these tricks (or tricks similar to them), you should immediately let your party know that they are illusions. This will give them a +4 bonus to their Will save to disbelieve the illusion, and illusions become translucent when disbelieved.

Also keep in mind that enemies don't get the opportunity to disbelieve an illusion unless they interact with it or otherwise have a reason to believe it may not be real.