Diceless Games

[Newman]

Anyone know any good ones one can get for free? You know, the sort that are mainly about roleplaying. I mean, the main reason I never could get into the usual kind of RPG is the constant using of mechanics... It's mechanical and stuff. I don't like it. I mean, the violations of common sense make for comedy gold, but otherwise...

[slaydemons]

Anyone know any good ones one can get for free? You know, the sort that are mainly about roleplaying. I mean, the main reason I never could get into the usual kind of RPG is the constant using of mechanics... It's mechanical and stuff. I don't like it. I mean, the violations of common sense make for comedy gold, but otherwise...

if you ever play any rpg there are dice involved, even video game ones (you just don't see those) what your explaining is free form rp which is free because it comes from your own mind

[Knaight]

Anyone know any good ones one can get for free? You know, the sort that are mainly about roleplaying. I mean, the main reason I never could get into the usual kind of RPG is the constant using of mechanics... It's mechanical and stuff. I don't like it. I mean, the violations of common sense make for comedy gold, but otherwise...

Diceless games are often just as mechanical. As for constant violations of common sense, I recommend looking past D&D, White Wolf's stuff, and anything that has any connection at all to Palladium. That said, for minimalist mechanical games, I recommend Fudge (http://www.fudgerpg.com/goodies/fudge-files/core/FUDGE-1995-Edition-%28PDF%29/), without any of the optional mechanics in use at all. Titled (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dLz59cxeHwXyd8oq1EQ9qB3eZKK1hr54E6igXR-Rlww/edit?hl=en_US) also uses mechanics infrequently, so there's that. It isn't exactly professionally designed though. Both involve dice, and are significantly lighter than the typical mechanical game.


if you ever play any rpg there are dice involved, even video game ones (you just don't see those) what your explaining is free form rp which is free because it comes from your own mind
Does the term Amber Diceless mean anything to you? How about Nobilis? There are plenty of diceless games which are nowhere near freeform, and this is before getting into video games. In fact, have 200 odd. (http://rpggeek.com/rpgmechanic/2109/diceless-does-not-use-dice-or-other-randomizer)

[slaydemons]

Does the term Amber Diceless mean anything to you? How about Nobilis? There are plenty of diceless games which are nowhere near freeform, and this is before getting into video games.

did not know of their existence I spoke out of ignorance my bad.

[Newman]

Well, basically I've found out I wanted to be something between this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheRoleplayer) and this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLoonie) role-player archetypes and I understood rules-light, dice-less games would do the trick... Living a story, exploring a character, etc., that's what I want to try. Vanquishing monsters interests me less than exploring new worlds and getting into intrigues and falling in love and stuff.

[Aidan305]

System rarely changes how people act within a game. Those who play the system play the system, those who don't, don't, and those who are in between can do either. What you're actually looking for is a group who will work to play the game in the manner you want.

Otherwise, you might try seeing if you can find a LARP organisation near you. They generally tend to get fairly immersive in my experience, and you'll find people break character far less.

[Newman]

But... some games encourage one type of play over another, right? I mean, Paranoia for example would be a munchkin's nightmare, since there's just no way to get anything done at all.

Do we have any games going on around these fora that would look like something I'd enjoy? I mean, I wouldn't like to join just to spoil everyone's fun by being an unwitting scrub, or slowing stuff down with Vaarsuvius style "drama"...

[Totally Guy]

System rarely changes how people act within a game.

System does change how people act due to the players buying into the situations the game caters for and acting appropriately to those situations.

I've not personally played any diceless games but I know of their existence and I have a diceless resolution mechanic written (that encourages the player to describe the manner in which they do something) in my notebook. Untested...

[Aidan305]

System does change how people act due to the players buying into the situations the game caters for and acting appropriately to those situations.

Not so much in my experience. Again, I find it depends more on the player than the system. However, there are some systems which promote the functioning of story over mechanics. Something using the FATE system, such as Spirit of the Century or Dresden Files might be appropriate.

[Maerok]

PDQ has rules up and it's pretty simple.
http://evilhat.wikidot.com/pdq

[Totally Guy]

However, there are some systems which promote the functioning of story over mechanics.

Game systems are mechanics.

[Aidan305]

Game systems are mechanics.

a) You're being unecessarily pedantic.
b) That has no bearing on the relevancy of what I was saying.

[Knaight]

a) You're being unecessarily pedantic.
b) That has no bearing on the relevancy of what I was saying.

Game systems which favor storytelling is not an example of storytelling over mechanics. It is an example of mechanics that support storytelling, and that is an important difference. Look at Fiasco, at FATE, at Steal Away Jordan, at Mouse Guard, at Sorcerer, and at Dogs in the Vineyard. Every single one of these has mechanics that support storytelling, and with the exception of FATE all of them push a particular kind. Fiasco plays like a Conan Brother's comedy of errors, Steal Away Jordan is all about character driven storytelling that shows the stark ugliness of historical slavery in the U.S., Mouse Guard is about fighting for what one believes and it shows, so on and so forth. Mechanics support a certain style of story, and while you can deviate from that, it doesn't change that it happens.

[Newman]

People are still talking about FATAL? Can't we just forget it ever existed?

So, to sum it up, some games "have mechanics that encourage a specific type of storytelling" while others "favour storytelling over mechanics"?

[The Boz]

People are still talking about FATAL? Can't we just forget it ever existed?
Noone ever mentioned FATAL.


So, to sum it up, some games "have mechanics that encourage a specific type of storytelling" while others "favour storytelling over mechanics"?
Noone ever said that. There is always mechanics. Mechanics for storytelling. Mechanics for tactical combat. Mechanics for espionage. But it's always mechanics.

[Croverus]

What about Rouge-like games? the whole:
<You wake up in a dimly lit room 10ft on all sides, with a hatch on all 6 faces. You aare wearing an old flightsuit with a path, which has your name on it. You can hear voices from one direction, and another a cry, then something sharp happening and cutting the cry short.

[Knaight]

People are still talking about FATAL? Can't we just forget it ever existed?

So, to sum it up, some games "have mechanics that encourage a specific type of storytelling" while others "favour storytelling over mechanics"?

FATE and FATAL are very, very different games. For instance, you might actually want to play FATE, where FATAL is very much in the "do not ever do any of this as a designer or human being" side.

To sum it up, some people say that some favor storytelling over mechanics, and others say that mechanics influence storytelling. For instance, D&D mechanics favors the story of a bunch of people who beat up monsters, get stuff, beat up bigger monsters, get bigger stuff, and continue to repeat that cycle. You can do other things with it, but that is what the mechanics are geared for - which really has a lot to do with why I avoid it, personally, but that is a side point.

[Newman]

Honestly, the problem I have with D&D is that it's too understated. I love it when I can simply talk my way out of any problem or even any main boss. The greatest victory is the battle that was never fought. But if I have to fight, I prefer it to be as hamtastically spectacular as possible. Anima (http://www.animarpg.com/) and (reputedly) Exalted (I heard the gods allowed you to break the laws of physics if your moves were cool enough).

[Newman]

doublepost

[The Boz]

Honestly, the problem I have with D&D is that it's too understated. I love it when I can simply talk my way out of any problem or even any main boss. The greatest victory is the battle that was never fought. But if I have to fight, I prefer it to be as hamtastically spectacular as possible. Anima (http://www.animarpg.com/) and (reputedly) Exalted (I heard the gods allowed you to break the laws of physics if your moves were cool enough).

Once again, the amount of dice does not dictate this. It's all up to the DM, and how much he is willing to let a player get away with.
And as for D&D being understated... Eh?

[Chauncymancer]

In terms of system matters, it might be more accurate to say that if you have a certain playstyle, certain elements of different games are going to annoy you. In which case, you are questing for the game that annoys you the least.

[erikun]

I mean, the main reason I never could get into the usual kind of RPG is the constant using of mechanics... It's mechanical and stuff. I don't like it.
As others have pointed out, how many dice are used has no relevance to how mechanical a system is. You could have a very light (and free) system that is open to a lot of interpretation but constantly uses dice - something like FUDGE - and you could have a diceless system with very heavy mechanics and everything you hate about RPGs.

If you want something diceless and free, there is also the Warriors Adventure Game. It isn't very impressive, but you can find it here (http://www.warriorcats.com/warriorshell.html) under Games & Extras, in Games. Yes, you are playing stray cats.


However, there are some systems which promote the functioning of story over mechanics.
There are game mechanics which encourage gameplay. World of Darkness grants you benefits when you roleplay appropriately, Burning Wheel has benefits and drawbacks for having a character mechanically very stereotypical for their race, and Mouse Guard has mechanics for very roleplay-ish aspects of a character, such as their habits and motivations.

However, none of these are premoting roleplay and story over mechanics. Rather, they are game mechanics that actively give bonuses to when the player chooses to make relevant in roleplay.


People are still talking about FATAL? Can't we just forget it ever existed?
FUDGE is a light system that used "Fudge Dice", or two d6s with to + sides, two - sides, and two blank sides to determine success. The roll modifies the character's base skill to see how well they did on the roll, and if they succeeded.

FATE is a system based on FUDGE, making a few changes such as using 2d6 rather than 2dF (Fudge dice) and more rules. Or perhaps that is backwards; it's been awhile since I've looked at the two.

FATAL is the game system that uses a 1d1,000,000 during character creation to see if your character had a potentially fatal birth defect and died in infancy. To state one of the less problematic parts of the system.

[Knaight]

FUDGE is a light system that used "Fudge Dice", or two d6s with to + sides, two - sides, and two blank sides to determine success. The roll modifies the character's base skill to see how well they did on the roll, and if they succeeded.

FATE is a system based on FUDGE, making a few changes such as using 2d6 rather than 2dF (Fudge dice) and more rules. Or perhaps that is backwards; it's been awhile since I've looked at the two.

FATAL is the game system that uses a 1d1,000,000 during character creation to see if your character had a potentially fatal birth defect and died in infancy. To state one of the less problematic parts of the system.
Fudge dropped the acronym awhile ago. It's just Fudge now, not FUDGE. Moreover, it uses 4dF by default. There is a d6-d6 option, along with a few charts and a bunch of other things.

FATE added aspects and removed attributes. The 4dF remains, as does the d6-d6 option, but FATE is far more codified.

FATAL is very much the game system that uses a 1d 1,000,000 during character creation, as well as using 10d100/5-1 twenty times. We haven't even reached the real problems yet. Such a terrible game.

[Aidan305]

FATAL is the game system that uses a 1d1,000,000 during character creation to see if your character had a potentially fatal birth defect and died in infancy. To state one of the less problematic parts of the system.
A friend of mine ran a combat in it once.There were 12 deaths with one survivor. There were only 10 people taking part in the combat.

[Knaight]

A friend of mine ran a combat in it once.There were 12 deaths with one survivor. There were only 10 people taking part in the combat.

Were there three deaths of players who just lost the will to live due to playing FATAL? :smallamused:

[Newman]

Dudes, I said we shouldn't talk about that abominable game. I'm sorry for bringing it up, it was a mistake.

Now. Fudge. No relation to the late Minister of Magic, huh? ("Never heard that one before...").

Okay, so it's a GM thing, huh... What do we have around here when it comes to Genius: The Transgression?

Is there a Fallout: Equestria RPG?

[erikun]

Okay, so it's a GM thing, huh... What do we have around here when it comes to Genius: The Transgression?

Is there a Fallout: Equestria RPG?
You might check the Homebrew Design forum, although you'll need to sift through all the 3.5e threads. A quick search doesn't indicate anything completed for Fallout, although I'm sure there are 3.5e MLP races floating around somewhere. I'm not sure which would be more necessary for Fallout: Equestria, as I haven't read it to know what is important.

d20 Modern might actually be worth looking into, as it has rules for mutations and wastelands.

[Newman]

This here total noob is waaaay over his head.

[Chauncymancer]

Genius? On this sight?
Not too much. forum.rpg.net is where the games designer hangs out.
Mechanically speaking its about the normal nWOD: the rules for inventions are crunchy, but they're meant for the DM mostly to describe the invention concept the players came up with.

[theflyingkitty]

You're probably going to need some dice for combat, and some dice for things of chance (such as seeing something way far off) however it is generally up to the DM how much rolling vs role-play there is.

My campaigns have a bit of rolling, cause my players wanted more, but generally has as little as possible.

Ran a VtM camp once that never used dice, but they also never fought anything.

You could also try lit. RP. Places like gaiaonline.com and many many others have it, though it's never D&D based.

[Incanus Kindler]

Heck. Why use a system that already exists at all?

Just start a storytelling game and whenever you come to a situation where you would normally need to roll dice to see if you succeed or fail, play rock-paper-scissors vs. the Game Master. If you want, go best 2 out of 3 so that you have a slightly better chance at winning whatever it is you want to do.

Defeat that bad guy? Rock-paper-scissors.
Scale that wall? Rock-paper-scissors.
Convince that NPC? Rock-paper-scissors.