Arcane or Divine monk?

[Master Thrower]

Well I've been invited to joining a medium level campaign, where the party is level 8, and all the basic roles are covered, Class THF barbarian, using dragon totem to get frightful presence (He's the best optimizier in the party, and has toned it down with this character) A twf rogue, aiming for a level in shadow dancer, a heal bot cleric (The newest player of the bunch) entering the pelor healing based class, a wizard going into wild mage (cause he finds it cool, likes blasting, and the occasional control spell)

Anyways so aside from that wall of text, I rolled pretty well, and being a fifth member thought i'd have some fun with my character

Roles-
17
17
16
15
13
11

So I was thinking of making a monk (Gasp) but I dont want to be horrible at everything, so I was thinking of making it more arcane or divine based.

I have found two such PrC that do this,
The enlightened fist
The Sacred Fist

Both have pro's and con's and I was wondering what the playground thought about these choices (compared to each other, not zomg monks=awful, play an UASS)

Sacred Fist-
Pros- Full casting, Full BAB, Decent class features, MAD less of an issue
Cons- not enterable untill level 8, requires two bad feats

Enlightened Fist-
Pros- Enterable at level 6, good class features, can use ascetic mage to key ac bonus off cha (if a sorcerer) Or potentially Carmaine monk (If DM allows it)
Cons- 3 caster levels lost, one bad feat. Much more MAD

Some thoughts play ground?

[Shades of Gray]

If you're going to go divine monk, do so through druid and not cleric. They have really good spells for the monk, such as magic fang, as well as great crowd control, like entangle.

[Quietus]

If you're going to go divine monk, do so through druid and not cleric. They have really good spells for the monk, such as magic fang, as well as great crowd control, like entangle.

This would also help to not step on the healbot cleric's feet, as the two lists are quite different aside from general-use things like Resist Energy, and you'll have clearly-backup healing.

[Cespenar]

Enlightened Fist-
Pros- Enterable at level 3

Uh, no? You need 8 ranks in Concentration, meaning you can only take it as your 6th level.

[Master Thrower]

Uh, no? You need 8 ranks in Concentration, meaning you can only take it as your 6th level.

Oops I missed that OP Edited :smallredface:

[NeoSeraphi]

Enlightened Fist is not enterable until level 6 (you need 8 ranks in Concentration, which requires you to be ECL 5). Also, if you're playing a monk, not a wizard, then lost caster levels aren't really a "con" (especially since one of those lost caster levels is to take a single level in actual monk).

If you do take Enlightened Fist, beg your DM for a capstone. Ask him to houserule you one or make one up. There is no reason for a PrC, even a semi-gish PrC like an elemental fist, to not have a capstone. If he doesn't want to do it, just don't take the 10th level and find a different prestige class.

You have some good rolls, so thankfully the MAD won't hurt you too much. Both PrCs are decent, both spell lists are decent, so it really comes down to: What kind of style are you looking for?

If you're looking for a guy who is able to punch things with his fists and use his magic to supplement his fighting style, play a sacred fist. You will, for the most part, look like a mundane character, unless someone needs healing (and monks can heal anyway, so you can just fluff it as such)

If you're looking for a guy who is able to deliver the power of the elements through his fists in a flashy Ken style way, play an Elemental Fist. The problem here is that your wild mage friend might feel a bit upset, since he's already playing arcane elemental damage-dealer, and you're doing the same, but with punching.

Since you have asked for our opinions, here's mine. Go druid/monk. Note that this requires you to be Lawful Neutral. Find an ACF that removes your animal companion (The druidic avenger from the SRD comes to mind, but your DM may rule that the text implies you can't use it if you're Lawful), and focus on self-buff spells rather than summoning or crowd control.

[Master Thrower]

Enlightened Fist is not enterable until level 6 (you need 8 ranks in Concentration, which requires you to be ECL 5). Also, if you're playing a monk, not a wizard, then lost caster levels aren't really a "con" (especially since one of those lost caster levels is to take a single level in actual monk).

If you do take Enlightened Fist, beg your DM for a capstone. Ask him to houserule you one or make one up. There is no reason for a PrC, even a semi-gish PrC like an elemental fist, to not have a capstone. If he doesn't want to do it, just don't take the 10th level and find a different prestige class.

You have some good rolls, so thankfully the MAD won't hurt you too much. Both PrCs are decent, both spell lists are decent, so it really comes down to: What kind of style are you looking for?

If you're looking for a guy who is able to punch things with his fists and use his magic to supplement his fighting style, play a sacred fist. You will, for the most part, look like a mundane character, unless someone needs healing (and monks can heal anyway, so you can just fluff it as such)

If you're looking for a guy who is able to deliver the power of the elements through his fists in a flashy Ken style way, play an Elemental Fist. The problem here is that your wild mage friend might feel a bit upset, since he's already playing arcane elemental damage-dealer, and you're doing the same, but with punching.

Since you have asked for our opinions, here's mine. Go druid/monk. Note that this requires you to be Lawful Neutral. Find an ACF that removes your animal companion (The druidic avenger from the SRD comes to mind, but your DM may rule that the text implies you can't use it if you're Lawful), and focus on self-buff spells rather than summoning or crowd control.

Hrmm druid monk does sound fun, but I think I could not use the unarmed strikes while wildshaped, as they just would not understand the ruling on it. But Sacred Fist sounds alot more appealing as thats what I had in mind

[NeoSeraphi]

Hrmm druid monk does sound fun, but I think I could not use the unarmed strikes while wildshaped, as they just would not understand the ruling on it. But Sacred Fist sounds alot more appealing as thats what I had in mind

No, you wouldn't, but it wouldn't matter, because you wouldn't stay in druid long enough to get wild shape. You can take monk 2/druid 3 to qualify. (I don't know why you think you have to wait til level 8 to get in)

[Master Thrower]

No, you wouldn't, but it wouldn't matter, because you wouldn't stay in druid long enough to get wild shape. You can take monk 2/druid 3 to qualify. (I don't know why you think you have to wait til level 8 to get in)

Ahhh I see enter sacred fist using druid. Well the BAB requirment is the big one if i remember correctly

[Dr.Epic]

Divine. They get the cooler end theme. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAga2AjfZlg)

[skycycle blues]

Ask your DM to waive the requirement of Stunning Fist for Sacred Fist, it only seems to be there because it's a class based on punching, but unlike Enlightened Fist, none of the class features make use of Stunning Fist. If he does that, enter as an Unarmed Swordsage/Cleric(or Druid if you want to do that). It would just be better over all.

[NeoSeraphi]

Ahhh I see enter sacred fist using druid. Well the BAB requirment is the big one if i remember correctly

The BAB requirement is +4. 2 levels of monk will get you +1, 4 levels of druid gets you +3, so you can enter at level 7. If your DM lets you use fractional BAB, you can use any combination to get +4 BAB at level 6.

[Godskook]

Both have pro's and con's and I was wondering what the playground thought about these choices (compared to each other, not zomg monks=awful, play an UASS)

These prestige classes are both commonly mentioned on the playground as being good monk options, due to the fact that both allow you to still be tier 1 while also being a monk.

[hex0]

Warmage or Duskblade/Monk/Enlightened Fist

or

Cleric/Monk/Sacred Fist or Paladin/Monk/Sacred Fist or Cleric/Prestige Paladin/Monk/Sacred Fist

or

Consider doing a Tash build instead...if possible

[Lateral]

Consider doing a Tash build instead...if possible

Do this, instead- you might prefer to be as far from stepping on others' toes as possible, and Tash builds are much simpler than Arcane or Divine monks.

Just so you know, a Tash build refers to a Monk/Psionic class multiclass (usually Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 18 or Ardent 18) that takes Monastic Training and the Tashalatora feat from Secrets of Sarlona. That feat allows your levels in any one Psionic class that you have Monastic Training in to stack with your Monk levels for FoB, Unarmed damage, and AC. It's really a much simpler build, despite Tashalatora being from an obscure source. (I just told you literally everything it does, though; it also requires 5 ranks in Autohypnosis and Knowledge (Psionics).

[Keld Denar]

Plus, PsyWar buffs are generally much more beneficial and synergistic, between Expansion and Inertial Armor (which stacks with your monk AC bonus from Wis), Strength of my Enemy, Hustle, Concealing Amorphia, etc. Oh, and Vampiric Weapon, which is REALLY sexy with a very high base unarmed strike damage.

[Tokiko Mima]

If you still wanted to be more of an arcane monk, how about 2 levels of Monk, then hop into Warlock? You'd take Eldritch Claws and Claws of the Beast feats, of course. Then you could branch into Eldritch Theurge or Disciple and cast all the spells you want, while having a progressively more wicked, damaging punch. I recommend mixing Ur-Priest, if you want to get to 9th level spells.

[NeoSeraphi]

If you still wanted to be more of an arcane monk, how about 2 levels of Monk, then hop into Warlock? You'd take Eldritch Claws and Beast Strike feats, of course. Then you could branch into Eldritch Theurge or Disciple and cast all the spells you want, while having a progressively more wicked, damaging punch. I recommend mixing Ur-Priest, if you want to get to 9th level spells.

Fixed that for you. :smallsmile: Claws of the beast is a psychic warrior psionic power.

[Tokiko Mima]

Thanks! I'm always getting those two confused. :smallsmile:

[Psyren]

Note also that it's MUCH easier to manifest powers than cast spells while grappling, for even more synergy.

[gorfnab]

How about a mix of arcane and divine?
The Sacrilegious Fist
Duskblade 3/ Monk 2/ Ur-Priest 2/ Sacred Fist 10/ Enlightened Fist 3

Otherwise for a Druid/Monk
The Salad Bar Monk
Warforged Monk 2/ Druid 3/ Landforged Walker 5/ Sacred Fist 10