Do Elder Evils count as deities

[Calanon]

There is a build I wanted to try and one of the requirements is that you must worship an Evil or Chaotic Deity (Eldritch Disciple). The build is as followed

Warlock/5 Fighter (Thug)/1 Ur-Priest/2 Eldritch Disciple/10 Hellfire Warlock/3

I'm a little iffy on the Fighter level but I can't think of anything else that will allow me to leap into the Ur-priest class :smallannoyed:

Seems sub-optimal to me but meh... its for a mid op game if that helps

[Yora]

Elder Evils have no divine ranks or any divine abilities, so they aren't deities.
But there is no reason for your GM to say that in your campaign they are treated as such and can give power to prestige classes.

[Calanon]

Elder Evils have no divine ranks or any divine abilities, so they aren't deities.
But there is no reason for your GM to say that in your campaign they are treated as such and can give power to prestige classes.

Elder Evil's cannot provide Clerical spells, which is why I picked the Ur-priest class instead of a Cleric of Pandorym, but If i do devote myself to an Elder Evil I still gain bonus Vile feats (which my DM is allowing us to Devote ourselves to)

[gorfnab]

Warlock/5 Fighter (Thug)/1 Ur-Priest/2 Eldritch Disciple/10 Hellfire Warlock/3

I'm a little iffy on the Fighter level but I can't think of anything else that will allow me to leap into the Ur-priest class :smallannoyed:


For Hellfire Ur-Locks I usually recommend this build arrangement:
Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 2/ Hellfire Warlock 3/ Eldritch Disciple 8
The level of Binder gives you access to the Naberious vestige allowing you to heal the con damage from hellfire every round.

*You need Turn or Rebuke Undead for Eldritch Disciple meaning you need 2 levels of Ur-Priest.

[Curmudgeon]

You don't worship an Elder Evil; you just serve it. Deities grant Clerical spells, but EEs grant their servitors bonus Vile feats. Elder Evils are in their own category.

[Calanon]

You don't worship an Elder Evil; you just serve it. Deities grant Clerical spells, but EEs grant their servitors bonus Vile feats. Elder Evils are in their own category.

Alright so would serving an Elder Evil allow you to Qualify for the PrC or no?



For Hellfire Ur-Locks I usually recommend this build arrangement:
Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 2/ Hellfire Warlock 3/ Eldritch Disciple 8
The level of Binder gives you access to the Naberious vestige allowing you to heal the con damage from hellfire every round.

*You need Turn or Rebuke Undead for Eldritch Disciple meaning you need 2 levels of Ur-Priest.

Ah that works :smallbiggrin: Much appreciated

[Curmudgeon]

Alright so would serving an Elder Evil allow you to Qualify for the PrC or no?
Since an EE isn't a deity, and since you serve them rather than worship them, that's a requirement failure on two counts.

[The-Mage-King]

Quick thing to note: Sertrous counts as a god, I think. He technically counts as a Demon lord, and since Demon Lords can give spells... Yeah.

Oh, and you get: Access to all domains, Elder Evil bonus feats, and great lulz since you're worshiping the first Heretic.


...Actually, since he's technically a Demon Lord, couldn't you be an Ur-Priest of him while counting as worshiping an Evil god?

[Calanon]

Quick thing to note: Sertrous counts as a god, I think. He technically counts as a Demon lord, and since Demon Lords can give spells... Yeah.

Oh, and you get: Access to all domains, Elder Evil bonus feats, and great lulz since you're worshiping the first Heretic.


...Actually, since he's technically a Demon Lord, couldn't you be an Ur-Priest of him while counting as worshiping an Evil god?

AH so it can be done! :smallbiggrin:

[Curmudgeon]

...Actually, since he's technically a Demon Lord, couldn't you be an Ur-Priest of him while counting as worshiping an Evil god?
You can't be an Ur-Priest of anybody. The first line of the class description is:
Ur-priests despise gods.

[The-Mage-King]

You can't be an Ur-Priest of anybody. The first line of the class description is:

...He's technically a demon lord... And hates gods, encouraging his followers to draw on the power of random gods to weaken them...



...Let's just say that it's a weird circumstance, m'kay?



...Also, Ur-Priest has no restriction on worshipping a deity. Just puttin' it out there.

[Calanon]

If i remember correctly an Ur-priest can also be a follower of a dead god :smallconfused: (Or am I remembering incorrectly) as to when I will pull up the section where I read that


This prestige class is written to describe characters who steal divine power from gods and use it for themselves. Its also a good choice for Ex-Clerics of gods who've lost their connection to their deity (Because their deity died, disappeared, or faded from existance because he had to few worshipers.)

[The-Mage-King]

...Yep. We got you your god, alrighty. Sertrous is it, since you can worship him and devote yourself to him while being an Ur-Priest.

...Time to file that away for later use.


Also, a quote from an older thread that discussed him.



I find it extremely amusing that any church/cult Sertrous ever decides to start only needs "All domains! Free feats" on the recruitment flyer, and you'd have every cleric in CharOp ready to drink the koolaid and wait for the meteor. :smalltongue:

[hamishspence]

Elder Evils, Abominations and Rank 0 Quasi-Deities are all pretty similar.

And there's precedent for Rank 0 Quasi-Deities (dragon ascendants after the capstone) being able to grant spells (via a feat, in Dragons of Faerun).

So a case could be made that Elder Evils might work as well.

[Calanon]

DM saw the thread and said it was cool :smallbiggrin:
I'd like to thank you for everything you've contributed

*Uses Summon Mod IX* ...it has a long casting time so just ignore this...

[Mnemnosyne]

There's no mechanical requirement that Ur-Priests not worship a god, only that they "have no ability to cast divine spells." And there's no requirement for an Eldritch Disciple to actually gain any powers from the god they worship, the only requirement is to worship a chaotic or evil deity. Gods don't get to pick who worships them, since worshiping is an act that you do on your own and requires no reciprocation from the deity - for example, some people worship Ao, but he doesn't give a damn and doesn't grant spells. That doesn't mean they're not worshiping him.

Therefore you can be an Ur-Priest, worship any chaotic or evil god you want, and qualify for Eldritch Disciple.

[Curmudgeon]

There's no mechanical requirement that Ur-Priests not worship a god, only that they "have no ability to cast divine spells."
How is worshiping a god consistent with despising gods?

[Calanon]

How is worshiping a god consistent with despising gods?

The Ur-priest is envious of the Deities powers, wants there power, and worships them in hopes of learning how to attain that power...

Its also kind of funny since the Character despises whatever creature gave him his unholy power

[The-Mage-King]

How is worshiping a god consistent with despising gods?

It isn't, but, hey, RAW. Nothing saying you can't, just that you can't draw divine power from a god before taking your first level in it.


'sides, Sertrous is obv. a total bro to Ur-Priests. Same hatred of gods, and desire to spite 'em. He can't help that constant worship by his cultists propelled him to godhood, after all.

[Curmudgeon]

Its also kind of funny since the Character despises whatever creature gave him his unholy power
Where do you get that somebody "gave" an Ur-Priest anything?
An ur-priest has access to any spell on the list and prepares those spells as a cleric, except that he does not pray for spells, he just takes them.

[Calanon]

Where do you get that somebody "gave" an Ur-Priest anything?


An ur-priest has access to any spell on the list and prepares those spells as a cleric, except that he does not pray for spells, he just takes them.

He's also a Warlock? :smallconfused: If i remember correctly Warlocks gain their powers from a fiendish/demonic/Celestial/etc heritage SO somebody did give the Warlock his/her power :smallbiggrin:

[Rubik]

How is worshiping a god consistent with despising gods?I have a character that effectively worships an elder evil, with a tattooed holy symbol and everything, despite being terrified of and hating it.

He does it more to placate it and keep it caged, rather than to set it free.

He's a CN psion//factotum (not insane, just believes in free will) that worships Pandorym, by the way. In case it matters.

[Curmudgeon]

A more interesting character I think can be created by both worshiping an Evil God and serving an Elder Evil. Sort of like being both a Freemason (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry.) and a Shriner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shriners).

[Mnemnosyne]

How is worshiping a god consistent with despising gods?It doesn't have to be, since that's not a mechanical requirement of the class. Fluff text and class descriptions of a non-mechanical nature only give one possible interpretation of how to play a class, not the only possible way for such a character to behave. If an Ur-Priest had to despise gods, they would have a code of conduct akin to the paladin's as a mechanical requirement which would include 'must despise gods'.

An Ur-Priest character can have many motivations other than despising gods. Maybe she despises some gods, or perhaps she doesn't despise gods at all, but just thinks they could stand to share their power a little more freely and hey they have so much, what's the harm in taking a little, doesn't mean I don't respect them, especially if you worship a god of thievery, or...well, there are numerous interpretations, all just as valid.