[4E] Alternative class features for Fighters and Rogues

[The Troubadour]

Hey there, guys! I'd like to run a Norse-themed campaign, and I wanted the mechanics to better support some of the flavour. Last time, I tried to make a new Essential class, the Berserker, but after some excellent feedback and careful consideration, I can see why the mechanics weren't really developed enough to support a full class. So I've decided on a different approach: alternative class features! For now, I'm focusing on the Fighter, the Rogue, the Barbarian and the Warlock.

I apologize if the descriptions are a bit "bare bones", but I wanted to simplify the presentation as much as I could.

NEW FIGHTER CLASS FEATURE: WARRIOR'S MADNESS
(Only available to Fighters with the Battlerager Vigor feature. It replaces both Combat Challenge and Combat Superiority.)
Berserker's Strike: When wearing light armor or chainmail and when making melee and close weapon attacks, you deal extra damage equal to your Constitution modifier. This extra damage increases to 2 + Constitution modifier at 5th level, 4 + Constitution modifier at 15th level, and 6 + Constitution modifier at 25th level.
Inexorable Warrior: You gain a +1 bonus to Will. This bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level. In addition, you gain a +5 bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects.

(Reasonings:
For a Martial-type berserker.
I wanted a Battlerager that was a bit more of a Striker.
I wanted to emphasize the STR/CON Battlerager route to represent the berserker's legendary fortitude - but without restricting the berserker's choice of weapons or shields.
Berserker's Strike is extra damage instead of bonus damage because some Invigorating powers don't have damage rolls.
Finally, Inexorable Warrior is meant to represent a resistance to mind-altering effects and to compensate a bit for the berserker's weak non-Fortitude NADs.)


NEW ROGUE CLASS FEATURE: REAVER WEAPON TALENT
(Only available to Rogues with the Brutal Scoundrel or Ruthless Ruffian features. It replaces Scoundrel Weapon Talent.)
Reaver Weapon Talent: You can wield any one-handed military weapon to deal Sneak Attack damage and to use Rogue powers that require a light blade. When you wield a club or a mace, your weapon damage die increases by one size. Finally, you gain proficiency with the battle axe, the hand axe, the longsword, the throwing hammer and the warhammer.

NEW ROGUE CLASS FEATURE: SKIRMISHER WEAPON TALENT
(Only available to Rogues with the Brutal Scoundrel or Cunning Sneak features. It replaces Scoundrel Weapon Talent.)
Skirmisher Weapon Talent: You can wield a longbow or shortbow to deal Sneak Attack damage and to use Rogue powers that require a hand crossbow or a sling.

(Reasonings:
Traditional Rogues don't fit the campaign's flavour. A Norseman Rogue should be a viking, a marauder, a skirmisher - hence the ability to use more martial weapons, and an additional benefit for Ruthless Ruffians, who otherwise wouldn't gain much from Reaver Weapon Talent.)

[vasharanpaladin]

Warrior's Madness
There's a similar thing floating around the tubes called Combat Annihilation that covers Berserker's Strike but with Dex. This should be fine.

[Rogue] Weapon Talent
I'm not so sure I'm comfortable with Reaver Weapon Talent predicating on a different class feature. Maybe just flat give them small axes and maces and have RWT function like Sharpshooter Talent (pick one group, get +1 to-hit)?

And I'll point out that Skirmisher Weapon Talent is unneeded. Just give rogues proficiency with shortbows (as the thief subclass does), since they can already use them with Sneak Attack, and make them usable with rogue powers, too. Then just add bows as an option for Sharpshooter Talent. :smallbiggrin:

[The Troubadour]

First of all, thanks for commenting! Apparently, you're the only one interested in something like this. Maybe I should try and open a new thread with a more interesting title. :-P

Now, the reason why I restricted Reaver Weapon Talent is because I wanted most Norse Rogues to have a high Strength, but in retrospect, that's probably not needed - after all, despite its name, an Artful Dodger could simply be a highly mobile scout/skirmisher type, which would be appropriate. So thanks for the suggestion, I'm going to remove the restriction. :-)

As for Skirmisher Weapon Talent, the Scoundrel in the playtest article has no proficiency with the shortbow and can't use it for Rogue powers, but he can deal Sneak Attack damage with it. I'm not sure if that oddity will be dealt with or not once the article is fully revised, but regardless, the main point of Skirmisher Weapon Talent isn't the shortbow, but the longbow - the shortbow is there as well merely for consistency's sake. :-D Though I probably should have added proficiency in those weapons, eh?

Once again, thanks for the comments! Anything else you might like to add, please, feel free to do so! :-D

[vasharanpaladin]

Now, see, my thing is K.I.S.S.-"Keep It Simple, Stupid." If I'm gonna homebrew something, I wanna try to get as much as possible out of tiny adjustments.

For example, as of current errata, the scoundrel's Sneak Attack pings off shortbows, but scoundrels aren't proficient with them and they can't be used for rogue powers. Solution: Scoundrels are proficient with shortbows, shortbows can be used with rogue powers that normally require a crossbow, and for the sake of completion, bows are now an option for Sharpshooter Talent to apply. Simple, easy, and elves can still have some of their uniqueness vis-a-vis Treetop Sniper. :smallbiggrin:

And, more importantly? The Scoundrel Weapon Talent feature is for boosting accuracy, anyway. If you're going to add proficiencies, do that through Scoundrel Tactics. :smallamused:

P.S.: I have an axe-wielding rogue going now. Subtle. Waraxe. FTW.

[The Troubadour]

Solution: Scoundrels are proficient with shortbows, shortbows can be used with rogue powers that normally require a crossbow, and for the sake of completion, bows are now an option for Sharpshooter Talent to apply.

Which is a fine solution, but it would require me to homebrew the class itself, which isn't my purpose here. :-)


And, more importantly? The Scoundrel Weapon Talent feature is for boosting accuracy, anyway.

Sort of. It's for boosting accuracy of d4 weapons, and also for increasing the damage die of thrown weapons. :-) I think the Rogue having a +1 to attack rolls when using a d8 weapon would be too strong.

On the other hand, I could give a +1 accuracy to some of the axes, hammers and bows, which would bring them up to par with the shortsword/longsword.


P.S.: I have an axe-wielding rogue going now. Subtle. Waraxe. FTW.

A Dwarf with Tunnel Stalker, I presume? Does the increased [W] compensate for the lower accuracy? And what does the Subtle property do?

[vasharanpaladin]

It does, actually, though I think it loses the race later on. A subtle weapon does slightly more damage when you have combat advantage (i.e., whenever you would roll Sneak Attack). On the whole, pretty fun, even if I am missing both the Weapon Talent boost and Mountain Thunder Student. :smallbiggrin: