How do I convince my DM that DW Kobolds arent busted?

[umbergod]

specifically old/venerable. not going for any cheese like the loredrake/spellhoarding shenanigans, just a plain old copper DW kobold sorcerer.

Yet my DM has initially said no, likely because of the massive amounts of cheese that can be done with a DW Kobold. Help me lay down a positive argument for the lilttle draconic kobolds?

[hex0]

specifically old/venerable. not going for any cheese like the loredrake/spellhoarding shenanigans, just a plain old copper DW kobold sorcerer.

Yet my DM has initially said no, likely because of the massive amounts of cheese that can be done with a DW Kobold. Help me lay down a positive argument for the lilttle draconic kobolds?

1. Go back and just say you want to play an unaged one instead. Maybe by 20th level you will have aged enough and 'earned' it, when it doesn't matter as much.

2. You waste feats and HP to gain the Greater Rite of Draconic Passage too, so you can play that card.

3. Ask if it will be ok if you aren't actually playing a Sorcerer...Like play a Duskblade or something?

[Aegis013]

Base stats really don't play a huge part in determining power mid-to-late game. So, even on a build that will get a lot of benefit from +3 int/wis/cha, the benefit isn't so enormous on its own to be totally broken. (In certain builds the effect is certainly increased, like a cleric, built well can get that cha benefit to affect a ton of turning pools)

However, it is a feat that is substantially better than other good feats available at the same level. He's definitely within his rights to say it's too potent, or potentially powerful to be allowed in his game.

[umbergod]

Good suggestions. I think he will allow an unaged one, I think he just doesn't like the idea of +2 or +3 to all mental stats with no penalties, other than, ya know, being a kobold.

I am set on playing an arcane caster though, as our only other arcane caster is a dread necro, and this is his first ever dnd campaign. Plus, a Sorcerer can make a passable face for the party, something else we sorely lack.

[skycycle blues]

Ask him specifically what the issue is and if possible promise to completely avoid whatever his issue is on penalty of irreversible character death.

[umbergod]

Ask him specifically what the issue is and if possible promise to completely avoid whatever his issue is on penalty of irreversible character death.

Another good idea. He is running a modified Age of Worms campaign, and character mortality is very likely. Not a huge issue to me, since I always have a ton of character ideas that I can put into play.

[Tyndmyr]

Point out that you are investing a feat, plus taking a notable stat hit from kobold by default. Ask himk how much aging he feels would be fair to make it on par with more traditional races, and only age that much.

Personally, I allow them as written. It tends not to matter since the top tier classes rarely really use more than 1 of int/wis/cha anyhow, and its easy enough to get a plus 2 to your casting stat as is.

[Coidzor]

However, it is a feat that is substantially better than other good feats available at the same level. He's definitely within his rights to say it's too potent, or potentially powerful to be allowed in his game.

What are you talking about "too potent?" :smallconfused: Without "cheesing" it(most of which just makes up for the abitrary weaknesses of the sorcerer class, mind), Dragonwrought Kobold offers very, very little beyond the immunity to sleep and paralysis which certainly doesn't make elves OP.

What are the good feats that this feat is "substantially better than?"

[hex0]

Personally, I allow them as written. It tends not to matter since the top tier classes rarely really use more than 1 of int/wis/cha anyhow, and its easy enough to get a plus 2 to your casting stat as is.

Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer/Favored Soul/Mystic Theurge? :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer/Favored Soul/Mystic Theurge? :smalltongue:

Even with Loredrake and Greater Draconic Rite of Passage that's still not a good deal. Without it, well, say hello to being the cohort of a cohort of a cohort. Well, ok, more like 2.5 cohort iterations, so if one of them took the feat that gave them the ability to have a cohort of level-1....

[Madara]

Ask him if you can try it out for one session, and have him look-over the sheet ahead of time. Pick some skills/spells purely for flavor, if you RP the fluff that comes with being a DW kobold, he'll probably see how cool a character it could be. "I am a Shepard of my people, we are born of the winged ones, and I will regain the glory of my people!"
And you need a cool Kobold name.
Kinda pull a :redcloak: of the Kobolds or something.

[umbergod]

Ask him if you can try it out for one session, and have him look-over the sheet ahead of time. Pick some skills/spells purely for flavor, if you RP the fluff that comes with being a DW kobold, he'll probably see how cool a character it could be. "I am a Shepard of my people, we are born of the winged ones, and I will regain the glory of my people!"
And you need a cool Kobold name.
Kinda pull a :redcloak: of the Kobolds or something.

thats my plan, I rarely min/max. I will optimize slightly, but only for the sake of fluff, and if it fits the character. This idea I've had since discovering dragonwrought and the draconic rites. Which is a DW Kobold Mystic without a tribe, as it was demolished while he was in search of suitable tunnel expansion sites. Inheriting a hunger for treasure and magic of all kinds, my DW kobold took up adventuring as means to amass a personal hoard, much like the dragon he emulates

[Madara]

That sounds so cool, I wish I was your DM. As long as you can maintain the character in-game, I think you'll be fine.

[umbergod]

That sounds so cool, I wish I was your DM. As long as you can maintain the character in-game, I think you'll be fine.

Definitely, the more work I put into a character's story and personality, the more I grow attached to them. The original concept is an old DWbold, but that was for my roommate's campaign. I'm thinking as long as I am baseline, and not trying to cheese up the campaign, that he will let it fly :D

[panaikhan]

No one race or class is 'busted'. And any race or class can break a campaign.

I made a DW Kobold for the WLD, and he ended up with the 'dragonform' polymorph as his 3/day spell power.
The build also included levels of Kobold Paragon from WoTC web-content, dragon-blood substitution levels and levels of Dragon-Heart Mage.