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Squeejee
2011-12-11, 11:55 PM
Hey guys! So, in one of my games my character has been gifted with a special magic weapon that can transform into any other weapon on command (as a swift action), and I'm trying to come up with as many creative ways of using it as possible. There are a few limitations:

1) The weapon can be "anything deadly up to colossal size," but just because I make a large weapon doesn't mean my character can wield it effectively. Anything past the minimum "colossal" size is right out, so I can't make anything large enough to smite the planet or anything like that. I CAN make multiple weapons at once, however - so long as they would all fit into a single colossal-sized crate.

2) The weapon has to be something my character understands - not that he has to be able to make it, but that he knows more or less how it works. This basically means I can't make any modern weapons or extraordinarily complex ones.

3) The weapon can become ammunition, but anything explosive won't function. No word yet on alchemical substances, but I assume that as long as the substance isn't consumed by a single use the way gunpowder is, it should be fine.

4) Enchantments only function once - so if I make it into a bunch of crossbows, any enchants I put on it would only function on the "master" crossbow. I can use it to outfit my party with masterwork stuff, but I can't copy/paste the magic on it.

That's all I've got for now, though the GM has said there may or may not be more limitations I'm unaware of (read: try anything game-breaking and it won't work). For example, here's a couple of ideas I've already tried and have worked:

a) Make a ballista, shoot it, shrink it down to a crossbow, reload it, grow it back into a ballista, repeat. One man rapid-fire siege engine!

b) Make it into a dagger, stick it in the ground, stand on it, grow it into a colossal greatsword. Used it kind of like an elevator, and when I reached the target, I shrunk it back down to size and walked away, leaving a giant hole in the ground like a boss.

I've also considered making it into a bunch of ammunition (like, thousands of GP worth of bolts for an army), selling it, then running away before they realize the ammo disappears as soon as I make the weapon into something else. Or maybe I can make it into an entire order of faulty weapons and sell them to my enemies...

So! What would you do with this item? Are there any cool tricks you can come up with?

slaydemons
2011-12-12, 12:02 AM
door in your way? boom colossal quarter staff then let the size kill everything behind it too.

The_Admiral
2011-12-12, 04:37 AM
Look at Sun WuKong, do what he does. :smallcool:
turn it into something light, throw it above the enemy, turn into anvil.

Bastian Weaver
2011-12-12, 04:53 AM
A weapon not unlike this was described in Dmitriy Skiryuk's "Autumn Fox" fantasy cycle. One of my favorite moments was when the weapon transformed into a likeness of the Holy Grail in order to bring a certain overly religious soldier to the heroes' side. Another trick was using the weapon's magically heating (and very long) blade to detonate some explosives.
Of course, a big cup isn't really "something deadly", but a holy symbol probably might qualify if it's used to cast deadly spells...
Oh, and it's really easy to hide something like this. Either turn it into a needle and hide it behind your ear, or - if you are masquerading as someone - turn it into the chosen weapon of the person you're pretending to be.
Very useful thingie, this one.

Sgt. Cookie
2011-12-12, 09:21 AM
"Anything deadly" Eh?

Well, that means anything. Really. Everything is deadly if you use it in the right way.

Enchanted amulet? Check.

Table? Check.

Warforged? Check.

Plant pot? Check.

Lock pick set? Check.

The key to the locked door in front of you? Check.

Heliomance
2011-12-12, 09:42 AM
Turn it into a cup of wine (potentially deadly - you can drown in it, and in sufficient quantities you'll die of alcohol poisoning!), give it to an enemy to drink, once it's in their stomach turn it into a colossal sharp thing.

"Anything deadly" sounds like it can include creatures. If you do that, are they under your control? Because the list of high CR monsters smaller than Colossal is a long one, and has some fantastic things on it ^_^

Dancing would be a logical enhancement to put on it. Try and make it intelligent, if you can!

The Reverend
2011-12-12, 11:13 AM
many daggers fit into a colossal crate? Throw one dagger make that many daggers.

wedge small blade into crack, turn into colosal sized club or something. Great for lifting or just destroying.

Heatwizard
2011-12-13, 07:01 AM
See if you can do things like "I'll make some fine mounted crossbows, and the large boat they happen to be attached to". Flying vehicles can be deadly to parties involved, even before they crash. How far you can push this depends on what 'deadly' means, and how close you have to stick to 'weapon', I think.

endoperez
2011-12-13, 08:25 AM
All of these hinge on the ability to make duplicates that you can leave in place for at least a little while.

You're in a tunnel, and something is coming after you. Make a shield. Make it bigger until it hits the walls tight enough to be difficult to move out.

You want to break a door. Make a staff. Wedge it between the door and some hard surface. Make the staff bigger.

Stand on a tiny bridge of stone. Raise your arm, with the weapon in it, above your head. Transform the weapon into something heavy and let it smash into the bridge. Optionally, yell "you shall not pass".

Check ALL the weapons available in your system, and see if they have any situational bonuses. Need to stop someone? Net/harpoon/something. Need to disarm someone? Take something with bonus for that. And so on.



Have you watched an anime series called "Katanagatari"? It's only tangentially related, but the main thing about it is the collection of "swords", that are not always swords. One of them is a sword of such sharpness it cuts anything. Another is a sword of such toughness nothing can break it. One is a sword of such weight it takes a special person to wield it and even then it's really more of a club. One is a suit of plate armor, a "weapon" of pure defense as opposed to one of pure offense. There are only twelve or so examples, but it's a good series, and it could give you some ideas.

Heliomance
2011-12-13, 08:52 AM
Important question: When changing size, does the item obey Conservation of Momentum?

QuidEst
2011-12-13, 08:58 AM
Get yourself the ability to cast Invisible Servant. (Mage Hand would work, but Invisible Servant is better.) This can be a party member (work for the Bard to do!), or somebody you hire. Carry the weapon in some light form above somebody's head and drop it as an anvil.

In a similar vein, you can use it to pull a giant mallet out of "nowhere". The classic dynamite and/or bomb is out of the question, unfortunately, but the mallet is still good.

Yo-yos probably weren't actually used as weapons. But your DM probably doesn't know that.

If I were DM, the sword-elevator would take some mean balance checks- standing on something rounded as it moves and changes size, hoping to avoid falling and possibly hitting a giant, sharp blade on the way down if you fail? It's asking for trouble. Try and think of… well, a safer weapon. XP

Change mass of a war-hammer in mid-swing. I don't know how inertia's going to be handled, but just about any way you look at it, it will hurt.

Start with a stiletto- easy stabbing. Once you stab somebody, have the business end sprout spikes or hooks.

Things to consider, though… what if somebody else gets the weapon? Does it still obey your orders, or is it theirs now? If it obeys you, you can just have it turn into something spiked when they grab it. (This can be tested safely with party members- preferably without spikes.)

Rorrik
2011-12-13, 10:15 AM
Important question: When changing size, does the item obey Conservation of Momentum?

I can't see how the DM could enforce this, it certainly doesn't obey Conservation of Energy, it's potential energy changes wildly whenever it changes mass in the presence of gravity. Given that Conservation of Energy is ignored, why not Conservation of Momentum, and we can therefore argue that a crossbow bolt can be changed into a colossal spear or metal rod en route to the castle wall, instabreach.

If you can get a pivoting stand or something, a metal rod at waist level could be spun, and again abusing conservation of energy and conservation of momentum, extended and sharpened to cut in half anyone not on the floor in whatever radius you want.

Edit: Stab into ground and have blades plunge through the ground and stab up beneath enemies.

Jay R
2011-12-13, 10:46 AM
Start with a stiletto- easy stabbing. Once you stab somebody, have the business end sprout spikes or hooks.

Spikes or hooks? Don't think small. At least turn it into a large double-bladed axe. Better yet, turn it into a trebuchet, catapult, or other 20 foot tall weapon.

If you point your dagger at someone and it turns into a pike, then you've just stabbed him from 12 feet away.

Can you turn an arrow into 10,000 arrows in flight? Besides the possibility of attacking the entire army with one shot, what happens to unit cohesion if they see 10,000 mithril arrows on the ground?

Don't forget boiling oil. A field of caltrops.

And among other things, you now have an infinite supply of poison.

Rorrik
2011-12-13, 11:14 AM
Can you turn an arrow into 10,000 arrows in flight? Besides the possibility of attacking the entire army with one shot, what happens to unit cohesion if they see 10,000 mithril arrows on the ground?

Don't forget boiling oil. A field of caltrops.


10,000 arrows that then turn into caltrops.

Heliomance
2011-12-13, 03:29 PM
I can't see how the DM could enforce this, it certainly doesn't obey Conservation of Energy, it's potential energy changes wildly whenever it changes mass in the presence of gravity. Given that Conservation of Energy is ignored, why not Conservation of Momentum, and we can therefore argue that a crossbow bolt can be changed into a colossal spear or metal rod en route to the castle wall, instabreach.

Conservation of energy doesn't work that way, as energy can be changed into different forms. There's no rule saying that an object has to keep its kinetic energy. As a proof of this, consider an open railway cart in heavy rain. As it fills up it will increase in mass and so conservation of momentum dictates it will slow down. Thus, its kinetic energy will decrease.

Squeejee
2011-12-13, 05:21 PM
Some awesome ideas coming out of here! We next meet on Monday, so I'll let you know then if I get a chance to try any of these. In the meantime, here's some speculation based on my GM's past rulings...

I don't think I can transform ammo mid-flight. For the "one man siege engine" trick, I had to change the weapon into to something that could fire the ammo first - the catch here is the "as a swift action" disclaimer. The transformation is a process that takes a moment or two and can't be done quickly enough to be completed mid-attack.

That said, if I were to launch an arrow high enough that I received another turn before it landed, I could possibly influence it mid-flight in that way.

The item seemed to function for whoever was holding it, and I think if two people are holding it they would compete for control of it. We've done this with magic items before - competing level checks for control over one item.

For poison, I tried this and the ruling was that - even though I know "eat arsenic, die horribly" - my character doesn't necessarily understand the biological processes behind it, and so can't recreate it. That's nothing a few ranks in "Craft: Alchemy" can't fix, though.

As a general rule, I suppose we can assume that the laws of physics will be regularly broken by this item (it's magic, I don't have to explain it).

Ravens_cry
2011-12-13, 06:08 PM
Incursion pouch.
An open mouth bag large enough to fit a over a medium creatures shoulders that folds up into a small 1/4 pound pouch that is concealable with a Slight of Hand check, it does not radiate any magic to detect magic, though other spells have a chance of detecting the aura, it fits a single medium creature or equivalent and their gear or 400 lb, providing the occupants with fresh air indefinitely.

Rorrik
2011-12-13, 06:54 PM
Conservation of energy doesn't work that way, as energy can be changed into different forms. There's no rule saying that an object has to keep its kinetic energy. As a proof of this, consider an open railway cart in heavy rain. As it fills up it will increase in mass and so conservation of momentum dictates it will slow down. Thus, its kinetic energy will decrease.

Kinetic energy is also a function of velocity, though squared. However, my issue was with potential energy. Generally its energy when at rest will be height*mass. When it becomes wildly heavier upon growing, but maintains its height, its energy has instantly increased. Therefore conservation of energy is not maintained.

Heliomance
2011-12-13, 11:45 PM
Eh, that's easily handwaved by saying it's pulling the additional required matter from another plane. It basically solves itself for any reasonable explanation of how the thing's able to violate conservation of mass in the first place. Conservation of momentum, however, doesn't go away automatically.

hydroplatypus
2011-12-14, 03:51 PM
Several good ideas

1. stab a creature. Then while your sword is still in said creature yrun it into a colossal object

2. make a mini weapon (as small as possible) and hide it in some food. Then expand it colossal

Rorrik
2011-12-14, 04:03 PM
Eh, that's easily handwaved by saying it's pulling the additional required matter from another plane. It basically solves itself for any reasonable explanation of how the thing's able to violate conservation of mass in the first place. Conservation of momentum, however, doesn't go away automatically.

Fair enough, lemme see if I can think of anything else good that obeys conservation of momentum...

If you can choose the destination of new weapons when you multiply a weapon, then it could be useful to say, make a sword appear inside an enemy, or a massive shield between you and the dragon fire, or just a score of two-handeds above the battle but not above you and party members. If you can make it appear wherever you like, the enmy won't see anything like this coming.

Re'ozul
2011-12-14, 07:20 PM
Was it defined that you could only create inanimate things?
Constructs can be quite deadly, or animate objects.

Squeejee
2011-12-14, 10:06 PM
Was it defined that you could only create inanimate things?
Constructs can be quite deadly, or animate objects.

I'm pretty sure this was assumed, but I didn't try to make a warforged or anything. Next time...

Dr.Epic
2011-12-14, 10:28 PM
Hey guys! So, in one of my games my character has been gifted with a special magic weapon that can transform into any other weapon on command (as a swift action), and I'm trying to come up with as many creative ways of using it as possible.

I've seen this before. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8UlfpGfuQI):smallwink:

Squeejee
2011-12-15, 04:34 PM
I've seen this before. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8UlfpGfuQI):smallwink:

That was pretty awesome, I must say. I'll definitely be stealing "to the clouds" now!

eulmanis12
2011-12-15, 05:08 PM
Use it as a "Swiss army Polearm"

for elevator, a safer method than dagger to collossal sword is to make it a cartoon-esque boxing-glove-on-a-scissor-lift point at ground than up you go.

I like the one arrow to many Idea

Here is one I like a lot

stab into target as spear/other stabby thing
turn into catapult (the arm is the part inside the target
Fling target into Wall/off cliff/other targets

Dr.Epic
2011-12-15, 05:20 PM
That was pretty awesome, I must say. I'll definitely be stealing "to the clouds" now!

I know right. Best short Oh Yeah! Cartoons made. Shame it didn't get to go to series like Fairly Odd Parents of Chalk Zone.

Necroticplague
2011-12-15, 05:41 PM
Step1: Create a bunch of small, double-sided spears (something like this <=>)
Step2:Plant them into the ground
Step3:Expand them
Instant wall of spears (well, instant compared to making one mundanely). If you're really in a rush, you could just drop them as you run (a free action).

Jay R
2011-12-16, 09:55 AM
Important question: When changing size, does the item obey Conservation of Momentum?

I can't imagine why it would, since it's a consequence of the Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy, and the object clearly violates that. (As does most D&D magic.)

Rorrik
2011-12-16, 01:06 PM
I can't imagine why it would, since it's a consequence of the Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy, and the object clearly violates that. (As does most D&D magic.)
Now don't start that again. *Insert Vulture Voice*