[DnD 3.5] What to make out of a Pixie?

[theonesin]

I'm making a backup for campaign, where we're level 8. I've always wanted to make a pixie, but kept getting sidetracked, or we started too low level. All sources are available for use.

I know the "classic" Pixie seems to be a Warlock, and while it's a fun class, I've already burnt myself out playing them(played an Unseelie Fey Warlock a few times lately). Also played several Rogue classes as well(including Spellthief), so I don't think I want to go that route either.

Any suggestions on what to make with a Pixie? Haven't decided if I'm going for the +4 or +6LA version.

Oh, and a question about the Pixie itself: Do Pixie PCs get to use the special memory loss/sleep arrows?

[Safety Sword]

Just to answer the thread title: Pixie pie is delicious :smallcool:

You need to find a way to make a pixie hulking hurler. Hilarity ensues.

[Snowbluff]

Make a pixie Barbarian, that should scare people.

Edit: Or a d2 Crusader.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Just to answer the thread title: Pixie pie is delicious :smallcool:

You need to find a way to make a pixie hulking hurler. Hilarity ensues.

It's possible...

If you take Stoneblessed to qualify for Goliath, then take a level of Barbarian with Mountainous Rage, a pixie becomes Large sized when he rages. Also make sure to take Spirit Lion Totem.

Then take War Hulk after that so you can attack everything within reach as an attack action.

Let's see if we can run the numbers... When you go from Small to Large, you gain a +12 Size bonus to Strength. Then crank in the +20 from the War Hulk levels, for a flat +32 to Strength, before any other considerations.

Now you pull your Large Skillful +1 Spiked Chain from your resident bag of holding/haversack. You automatically have a 3/4 BAB when using that weapon, including iteratives. Assuming you don't have a War Chanter cohort bumming around somewhere with Inspire Legion, of course.

So now you pounce, get a FULL attack progression against all opponents within reach (something like 20' now) and proceed to beat down with traditional tactics (power attack/shock trooper/etc).

Do keep in mind that you're still a Pixie, even if you are Large, and have the DR 10/Cold Iron and permanent Greater Invisibility up at all times...

[Safety Sword]

It's possible...

If you take Stoneblessed to qualify for Goliath, then take a level of Barbarian with Mountainous Rage, a pixie becomes Large sized when he rages. Also make sure to take Spirit Lion Totem.

Then take War Hulk after that so you can attack everything within reach as an attack action.

Let's see if we can run the numbers... When you go from Small to Large, you gain a +12 Size bonus to Strength. Then crank in the +20 from the War Hulk levels, for a flat +32 to Strength, before any other considerations.

Now you pull your Large Skillful +1 Spiked Chain from your resident bag of holding/haversack. You automatically have a 3/4 BAB when using that weapon, including iteratives. Assuming you don't have a War Chanter cohort bumming around somewhere with Inspire Legion, of course.

So now you pounce, get a FULL attack progression against all opponents within reach (something like 20' now) and proceed to beat down with traditional tactics (power attack/shock trooper/etc).

Do keep in mind that you're still a Pixie, even if you are Large, and have the DR 10/Cold Iron and permanent Greater Invisibility up at all times...

This is why I love this forum community.

Shneekey, your build is literally "rocks fall from the sky". Love it.

What no pixie pie? Here, have a boulder on your head.

[theonesin]

While that does sound very impressive and fun, it sounds like something that can't be accomplished very early, and I have no idea how high a level this campaign will go.

Any ideas for something that would come together sooner?

[Mantarni]

Melee pixies are great.

See if your DM allows that homebrew 'Improved Weapon Finesse' feat, which lets you use dex for damage on your weapon finesse weapon. It usually has the prereqs of BAB+6 and Weapon Finesse.

Then go Fighter [even #, get some of the feats] -> Blade Bravo. Have Underfoot Combat, Confound the Big Folk, Giantbane, Close-Quarters Combat. Improved Trip also helps. You are now a 2' tall badass who leaps onto monsters and totally ruins them.

If you can't take improved weapon finesse, then try using fighter -> iaijutsu master. There's a pretty good conversion for it on this site somewhere if you need it, its the one that includes wakizashi as an option you can use instead of katanas, quick sheath and the iaijutsu focus as a scaling class feature (was it 5d6?). Your CHA bonus really helps that, and your dex is great since it doesn't really use armor. Also you do damage despite your size penalties, especially once you get IM 10 and add your charisma to each IF damage die. The feats from BB work great here too.

Actually, IM is even more awesome if you can use IWF... tough choice.

[ericgrau]

The cha is good for getting good save DCs on low level spells in spite of the LA and for use magic device. You could try bard. Or sorcerer but with some way to get UMD as a class skill. Between the high save DC on level 1-2 spells and the gazillion level 1-2 scrolls/wands from every casting class in existence is you'll be the most epic unseen caster of low level spells ever.

[theonesin]

For the record, yes. We are using Weapon Finesse as "adding dex to damage instead of strength". Finessable weapons already have the benefit of the traditional Weapon Finesse feat on them.

Edit: I looked up the Blade Bravo class, and unless it was errata'd somewhere, it requires you to be a gnome.

[Runestar]

Swordsages sound like fun. Shadow blade adds dex to damage, while swordsage also has quite a few abilities keyed off wis. With perm invis on, he should have no problems applying the sneak attack damage from assassin's stance either. :smallsmile:

[Mantarni]

For the record, yes. We are using Weapon Finesse as "adding dex to damage instead of strength". Finessable weapons already have the benefit of the traditional Weapon Finesse feat on them.

Edit: I looked up the Blade Bravo class, and unless it was errata'd somewhere, it requires you to be a gnome.

Hrk. Why does nobody read the 'adaptation suggestions' text right above the requirements? (I'm running a counter, this happens to me so much)

Look above the entry requirements at 'adaption suggestions' and you'll see it directly recommends expanding the requirements to include small fey and other small or smaller sized beings. Apparently (stories differ) when a bunch of classes were converted to 3.5, they barely did any editing and just threw in stuff like that, which is as good as an official rules edit as you'll get. So pixie is essentially allowed to BB, its obviously geared towards small classes and not just gnomes.


FakeEdit: Found what I was looking for earlier. This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201956) seems to be a decent iaijutsu master conversion. It's not as broken as some of the other unofficial ones at least, and sticks relatively well to the 3.0 version.

[sonofzeal]

Note that anything with the Major Titan Bloodline can use "a two-handed warhammer suitable for a Gargantuan creature" without penalty. Without any penalty. You don't even need proficiency.

[theonesin]

Note that anything with the Major Titan Bloodline can use "a two-handed warhammer suitable for a Gargantuan creature" without penalty. Without any penalty. You don't even need proficiency.

I read about that as I was googling pixie stuff. Does the "without any penalty" include having the carrying capacity to actually hold the warhammer?

[sonofzeal]

I read about that as I was googling pixie stuff. Does the "without any penalty" include having the carrying capacity to actually hold the warhammer?
Yes... although everything else you do might suffer massive penalties. Good luck flying, or even walking...

[Dragonsoul]

Have an eternal Wand of Ant haul and use a mithral Greathammer <Ant haul triples your carrying capacity and has a Duration of 2 Hours a level> and Mithral halves the weight. If you don't dump strength completely you should be able to carry one.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

While that does sound very impressive and fun, it sounds like something that can't be accomplished very early, and I have no idea how high a level this campaign will go.

Any ideas for something that would come together sooner?

I believe the basic chassis to get this going is Monk2/Stoneblessed3/Barbarian1, so minimum of 10th ECL (without level buyoff...). Before that, you have Monk2... which gives you Evasion, and decent saves. Use the Overwhelming Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#overwhelmingAttack) style Monk to get Power Attack and Improved Bull Rush as bonus feats.

So at low levels, you're pretty much a scout who is immune to most tricks available at that level. You fly, you're invisible permanently, you have Evasion, and really that's good enough for ECL 6. The next three levels are, I admit, a grind-fest. Then you pick up Barbarian and... things proceed from there.

[Hanuman]

Marshal.

The cha bonus creates super-powerful buffs(because marshal uses more Cha than HD as scale), and because they are support the DM shouldn't mind too much about their effect and while the other suggestions are valid and pretty cool, they might make your DM mad.

Add poison to your arrows and you get sleep+poison arrows with full BAB, from invisibility, no move silent check because flying and even if spotted an easy retreat to altitude, where even with see invisibility you can disappear-- 10' = +1DC so 150' = +15DC +Hide + Dex +8Size = Invisible (DC40 is the spot required to see through invisibility).

Effective, helpful, DM-friendly, social, what's not to like?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Marshal.

The cha bonus creates super-powerful buffs(because marshal uses more Cha than HD as scale), and because they are support the DM shouldn't mind too much about their effect and while the other suggestions are valid and pretty cool, they might make your DM mad.No, marshall auras are not 'super-powerful', they nearly always suck, with rare exceptions. The best use I've seen for it is to stack Cha for Diplomancing/intimidation.


Add poison to your arrows and you get sleep+poison arrows with full BAB, from invisibility, no move silent check because flying and even if spotted an easy retreat to altitude, where even with see invisibility you can disappear-- 10' = +1DC so 150' = +15DC +Hide + Dex +8Size = Invisible (DC40 is the spot required to see through invisibility).Wrong. Flying does not mean 'no move silent check'... that's Incorporeal subtype you're thinking of. If you try for the sleep arrows, you have to deal with the extra +2 LA on top of the +4 for the base pixie. Which means, at ECL8, you have Marshall2, which isn't even enough to get an extra move action for the party.


Effective, helpful, DM-friendly, social, what's not to like?

How about actually doing something that might affect the outcome of a battle?

[Hanuman]

How about actually doing something that might affect the outcome of a battle?
Military's got the notion information and recon are the most important part of any incursion.
I can't really understand how someone couldn't value a tiny invisible drone with sleep and memory loss projectiles that if discovered can escape capture, destruction and most trace methods, and even when captured can fool the enemy and convince them that the drone was "spying" for the best of intentions.

But of course, I think this way because I consider the pixie a class of it's own.

Aha, and yes I did forget the sleep arrow LA, that's pretty optional unless you want to save stack something like DrowKOPsn/Stalactite/SleepArrow/Ect. for a quick-KO spammer, that's like DC14 + DC16 + DC19 or KO?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Military's got the notion information and recon are the most important part of any incursion.
I can't really understand how someone couldn't value a tiny invisible drone with sleep and memory loss projectiles that if discovered can escape capture, destruction and most trace methods, and even when captured can fool the enemy and convince them that the drone was "spying" for the best of intentions.Any pixie can do this, it has nothing to do with Marshall and everything to do with the race. The DC's on the projectiles are a) static, and b) pathetic. They're never going to land on anything you want it to land on.

I'd rather have a drone with some ability to avoid incoming fire in the event it *does* actually get spotted, so it can return with information.


Aha, and yes I did forget the sleep arrow LA, that's pretty optional unless you want to save stack something like DrowKOPsn/Stalactite/SleepArrow/Ect. for a quick-KO spammer, that's like DC14 + DC16 + DC19 or KO? Not really viable, because again... low and static DC's means anything serious is going to flat ignore it.

[Hanuman]

Any pixie can do this, it has nothing to do with Marshall and everything to do with the race. The DC's on the projectiles are a) static, and b) pathetic. They're never going to land on anything you want it to land on.

I'd rather have a drone with some ability to avoid incoming fire in the event it *does* actually get spotted, so it can return with information.

Not really viable, because again... low and static DC's means anything serious is going to flat ignore it.

:smallconfused:

I agree, that the character's saves become less efficient with level (15% less chance of KO with each +1, but please excuse my poor math knowledge but Drow DC13 / Arrow DC15 / Stalactite 19 means a creature with +10 to all saves still has 10% / 20% / 40% (which I read as 70%) chance of falling to the first hit of a surprise attack from a target, or if you want you can use Mosquito's Bite to land a hit without them noticing at the cost of the DC15 and the +2LA but having to use melee.

And yes I'm aware all pixies are pixies, I guess I just go against the grain as most forum users think of either a ECL20 progression or a gestalt CO.

Anyway, done justifying a fun little build, good luck OP.

[theonesin]

Where does it say that the sleep arrows increase LA? I've only seen the LA increase based on if you can use Irresistible Dance or not.

[Urpriest]

I don't know if Carnivore posts on these forums, but he's got a very detailed Pixie handbook here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871070/The_Pixie_Handbook).

[theonesin]

I've looked at the guide, but I honestly didn't really find it very helpful.

[Urpriest]

I've looked at the guide, but I honestly didn't really find it very helpful.

Yeah, I agree with you there. It's fairly disorganized. Trixie the Pixie Party Booster (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19867902/Trixie_the_Party_Booster) is a more straightforward application of the concept, but really it's all just an illustration of what you can do with Marshal and high Cha.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Where does it say that the sleep arrows increase LA? I've only seen the LA increase based on if you can use Irresistible Dance or not.

Ahh, you're right... PC sprites don't get the arrows. At all. I thought they came bundled with Irresistable Dance. My mistake.

Also, the save-stacking has the problem that all three target the same Fort save, which is the one most opponents you face tend to have as their highest save.

And keep in mind it's level 8 already. Which means you might be able to afford it, but anything you encounter is going to laugh in your face when you try it.

[ericgrau]

Never underestimate a non-action effect. The arrow still does damage, albeit nonlethal. The average monster will save you might fight is +6, maybe lower or higher, so they'll still fail a DC 11 eventually. An average of 5 arrows or 650 gp to take a foe out of a fight (and on the other 4 you still do damage and are as effective as normal). On average you get 9000 gp by next level and in most groups you might personally take out 4-8 foes by then; eliminating 1 more for only a little of your treasure is a big deal. Doing a similar comparison on other levels the ideal level range is about 6-10, so he's right in the sweet spot and it is in fact the best time to buy sleep arrows. It's not spectacular but it's quite effective. If you can figure out what has a lower than average will save then you'll do much better and it will be even more worth it. Because you're right in the middle of the sweet spot you can feel good about firing arrows at mooks and BBEG's alike. Though it's still good to pick ones with low will saves, and things change a little after you level up (more mooks, less BBEGs).

[theonesin]

After talking to my DM to make sure it was ok, I've decided to go the route of Blade Bravo, taking four levels of Fighter and a level of Pouncing Barbarian before entering.

I'm not entirely sure where to put the stats I've rolled: 12, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18.

Right now I've got them like this, followed by the total from Pixie stats:

Str 14(10)
Dex 17(25)
Con 18(18)
Int 15(21)
Wis 12(16)
Cha 16(22)

Are these fine how they are, or should I change them? Do I need so high a Cha to use Blade Bravo?

[missmvicious]

Aww... I'm too late.

Still, here's my 2 CP, since I recently played a Pixie.

Take 6 ranks in Pixie to get Otto's Irresistible Dance as an SLA, then take you're 1st level as a Rogue. Multi-class to Bard as soon as you want after that, to gain extra illusionary spells and some great RP ops with your OID.

Greater Invisibility will make you the point scout. Tell you're team to wait for the signal... the signal will be monsters running in terror. Buzz in to the lair while Invisible, cast OID on the BBEG, and proceed to Sneak Attack the bajeezus out of the rest of the enemies with a bow. If you took Shoot on the Run, this is even better, because now they will have practically no chance of finding you. When your teammates rush in they can have fun getting endless AoOs on the BBEG while you pick off the rest of the rabble.

After that, grab your fiddle and Inspire Courage while your BBEG helplessly shakes and shimmies to your jaunty tune.

[Mantarni]

Wrong. Flying does not mean 'no move silent check'... that's Incorporeal subtype you're thinking of.

Wrong. Sprites don't need to roll for move silently when flying.

[theonesin]

Wrong. Sprites don't need to roll for move silently when flying.

Where does it say this?

[ericgrau]

Wrong. Sprites don't need to roll for move silently when flying.
Why because their wings always make a humming bird noise and there's no way to suppress it? What gives them that exclusion when ultra-silent owls roll move silently?

As for blade bravo and cha, maybe I'm looking at the wrong blade bravo but I'm confused why the class needs cha at all. You don't need feint, and can't goad while invisible.

[Metahuman1]

Play a bard with slippers of Battle Dancing and maybe a finnessable weapon? Optimize Inspire Courage and take Subsonics so that you can be quite while inspiring courage, and either Melodic Casting to cast spells and/or Lingering Song to get a nice boost of rounds where you have Inspire courage + all your actions, or Song of the White Raven to make it a swift action to maintain your music?


Gives you bonus damage, skills, some spell casting and the Slippers of Battle Dancing let you get some extra Milage out of your Cha in combat.



Or maybe a mounted build since your character is what most would consider to be in the handle Petite size it could use a smaller mount and thus be able to attack more things. I like the idea of a small or medium sized creature with a template tacked on it so that it can have wings myself as a mount for a Pixie with a lance.

[Mantarni]

Gah, of course I can't remember the book that had that (it was a while ago when it came up). Probably a Fey based book or something.

@ericgrau - the charisma was for the iaijutsu master class I recommended, you get cha added to AC, initiative and every damage die from iaijutsu focus damage.

[theonesin]

As for blade bravo and cha, maybe I'm looking at the wrong blade bravo but I'm confused why the class needs cha at all. You don't need feint, and can't goad while invisible.

If I'm getting it right, the point is to use Underfoot Combat and the like to boost your AC a lot while forcing the enemy to try to attack you. I know invisibility would mess that up, but that power can be saved on stuff that isn't big enough.

Edit: Oh, so I don't really need to pump Cha that much for Blade Bravo?

As for Iaijutsu Master, it's kind of sketchy how much 3.0 the DM allows, and even more sketchy if he's allow a homebrew of it, so I really don't think that's an option.

[Bloodgruve]

I am seeing a Factotum w/Iaijutsu Focus... Quite easy to get opponents flat footed with invis like that.

GL
Blood~

[theonesin]

I am seeing a Factotum w/Iaijutsu Focus... Quite easy to get opponents flat footed with invis like that.

GL
Blood~

Is there any way to sheath a weapon as a free action, other than with a gnome quickrazor? Because I don't want to use that weapon when Blade Bravo wants me to use a rapier.

[Mantarni]

Is there any way to sheath a weapon as a free action, other than with a gnome quickrazor? Because I don't want to use that weapon when Blade Bravo wants me to use a rapier.

You would have a very good argument on the Quick Draw feat also allowing quick sheathing.

[theonesin]

You would have a very good argument on the Quick Draw feat also allowing quick sheathing.

DM already said no to that one.

[Mantarni]

Ouch. Ask if he would allow this feat (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Quick_Sheath_%283.5e_Feat%29), it's a simple homebrew and I don't think it is particularly overpowered considering you would be you spending 2 feats to have it.

[theonesin]

Rethinking it now, it looks like the party has or will have plenty of straight damage dealers. Paladin or Monk, Artificer(says he's more support, but it looks like his damage output would beat the pixie blade bravo anyway), and at least one other player who would definitely play a frontliner.

I was looking back at the responses, and started looking at the Rogue/Bard recommendation, along with actually taking Irresistible Dance. I'm thinking I'll actually take that power, as I figure "when will I get a chance to do this again?" anyway.

I'm a little scared of going Bard though because I'd be so far behind in levels, especially for spellcasting. I almost wish there was a variant that replaced spellcasting with more bardic music uses(another thing I would have a low number of).

Marshal is also an option I guess, but it seems too weak.

Any thoughts on this?

[ericgrau]

If you were higher level I'd say go for it, but at ECL 8 a stiff breeze, or other area effect, will kill you even if the stiff breeze cannot see you. OTOH, ya, it might be your only chance to ever try it. If you can dig up a magic item granting temporary HP or similar, get it at whatever cost.

If you must try it then entangle (SLA), detect thoughts, grease, maybe charm person and illusions (permanent image is an awesome SLA; plus spells too) would be handy even at level 8 due to the cha based save DCs, which will keep up with level 4 spells cast by other races. In 2 levels there's glitterdust, more illusion, pyrotechnics and silence (offensively and defensively: it doesn't affect your many SLAs). Inspire courage +1 in the buffing round is still better than nothing as it lasts 5 rounds after. But not during combat. A rogue however would be even farther behind with nothing to make up for it so I'd go bard or sorcerer.

[Mantarni]

I wonder how a pixie beguiler would work. Never played a beguiler, so this is off the top of my head, but it seems like it would match up.

[theonesin]

I've never played a Beguiler myself, though the DM has when he was a player in the group.

It's tough. I'd really like to use Irresistible Dance, but at the same time, I think I'm willing to give it up if it would make the character too weak otherwise.

[Randomguy]

Pixie factotum archer, perhaps? Or pixie factotum with iajitsu focus? (Can iajitsu focus work with ranged weapons?)

A pixie beguiler would be great thematically, and good in game (You get huge boosts to all the beguiler's important stats) but you break the "Thou shalt not lose caster levels" rule. Probably better a beguiler than any other caster but wizard. On the downside, if you face something with true seeing that's immune to mind affecting spells, you're screwed.

Don't get irrisistable dance. It's a once per day one hit kill, sure but it's only once per day. You loose too much from it.

Unless you plan on using the giant slayer build (Or the giant build), it would probably be best to either use ranged weapons or to cast, since you'd get squished in melee.

You could try Factotum going into master trapsmith, possibly going into combat trapsmith after that. Sneaking around invisibly and setting up traps could be fun.

[theonesin]

I guess I'd rather be a caster, as this is pretty much a backup for a character who already specializes in ranged attacks.

As for Trapsmith, I'm staying far away from that. This group has already seen enough nonsense involving that class. Stuff involving powerful yet cheap magic items.

I have played Factotum before and had fun with it. I don't remember what I really did with the class though.

[Bloodgruve]

I'm playing a IF Factotum currently and using hide for IF. If you have quick draw you could just carry a ton of daggers or some rapiers that you could draw as needed. With the Item Familiar feat I have a base +26 IF at level 9 with the invest skill ability, which allows for average 6d6 IF on 3 attacks per round with my setup.

What fun would it be to have a target take a big hit then a rapier falls to the ground from outta nowhere each round.

Is there any enchant that automatically returns a blade to its sheath instead of the hand if thrown or dropped? Maybe engineer a spring onto the blade that resheaths it? There is also a material that blades can be made of that grants Quick Draw, think its Fey Steel or something like that IIRC.

GL
Blood~

[ericgrau]

It's tough. I'd really like to use Irresistible Dance, but at the same time, I think I'm willing to give it up if it would make the character too weak otherwise.
Fun > power, as long as it's still playable. Anybody know tricks/items to get a big flat HP boost and make this work? Hmmm, custom item of at will false life, 10,800 gp, 1d10+3 temp HP, refreshed as a standard action. It's not much but it's a start. There's gotta be something in the MiC. You don't need a huge pool of HP, only enough for the 1 rare hit. So 40+. Then if you get hit you can afford to flee until you heal up, because it's a rare event.

[theonesin]

I like to have both fun AND power though! D:

And I kind of need to make sure this thing is isn't a waste of space. There's a REASON this is a backup character. We almost had a party wipe last session, and did lose one character. And the DM "jokes" about things getting worse. We're all kind of preparing backups.

I'm kind of leaning back towards Bard again, though I've never played one and am not sure how to approach it.

[ericgrau]

A bard is like a sorcerer skillmonkey buffer. If you can play a sorc/wiz and a rogue for more than finding traps I think you can do a bard. Save songs for the buffing round when possible. There are splatbook options to increase the casting or song buffing sides. There are also a couple tricks with whips or tumbling to flank for allies but these are secondary and optional.

[Bloodgruve]

Bard is a great option too, couple it with a level of Warblade or Crusader for Song of the White Raven feat which allows you to initiate your inspire courage as a swift action. I would build TWF, Weapon Finesse, Song of the Heart, Melodious Casting, Song of the White Raven, Snowflake Wardance, Arcane Strike not necessarily in that order.

To open up more spell options you can go Magical Training w/ Versatile Casting for a spell book that you can cast from ;) or Arcane Disciple using Pride domain or something that gives you Divine Power for fun. Bloodline feats from Dragon Compendium are also fun to open up more spell options.

GL
Blood~

[theonesin]

Ok nevermind, bard's not an option anymore. The DM ruined it for me.

Back to square one, again.

[Bloodgruve]

How bout Spellthief? If you want more casting there's and ACF that drops a few skill points/lvl and trapfinding but gives you bard spell progression...

Blood~

[theonesin]

Spellthief isn't bad, but I'm already playing on in another campaign.

[Bloodgruve]

How bout Binder or Ardent? Both pretty versatile.

Blood~

[Mantarni]

You could go for awesomeness with a ninja / master thrower.

There's a build for it (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Machine_Gun_Assassin_%283.5e_Optimized_Character_B uild%29) on the dandwiki, it gets ~16 shuriken attacks every round with lots of damage buffs.

It's also a fairly easy build to tamper with to soften it if it seems too powerful, or to fit your specifications. Seems like it would work great with a pixie.

EDIT: Also, throw in weapon finesse (shuriken) since in your game it adds dex to damage. Thats +7* damage PER SHURIKEN, attacking +7* vs touch ac as well.

*Assuming a basic stat buy setup that has 10 str and some bonus to other stats.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Umm... you *DO* realize that Irresistable Dance is a Bard spell, right? Why blow +2LA on something you'll be able to do anyways? And then do it more times per day at the same time...

If you've got several heavy-hitters already, I highly suggest looking up IC/DFI optimization techniques. You'll be a force multiplier from the get-go...

[theonesin]

Looking up when a Bard naturally learns Irresistible Dance, there's very little chance that this campaign will go to such a high level(our games never do). Though like I said, I'm probably willing to drop it.

But again, unfortunately, the DM's ruined Bard for me now. I don't know if it's in the rules exactly, but he actually wants to make the party do Listen checks to hear bardic music, and knowing this party, they could actually FAIL this. I don't want to play a character who might MISS with his freaking buffs. And before anyone says anything, no, I can't reason with him otherwise.

If I'm going the support route, I'll need something else.

[ericgrau]

Sorcerer or beguiler or other cha casting class then. The cha focus will synergize well with your SLAs and keep the save DCs high on the low level spells. I'd say marshall but that would probably require listen checks too.

I think invisibility and flying would combine really well with pyrotechnics because you could be the one holding the everburning torch for the spell. You fly in. The dungeon lights up but they can't see you or the flying torch so they take wild swings next to them, to no avail. Then there's a flash of fireworks and half of them go blind, and the screams are the signal for your allies to come in. The save DC on pyrotechnics will be higher than 4th level spells in spite of your LA thanks to the +6 cha. And your invisibility+flight makes the power of the spell as good or better than a 4th level spell.

If your DM allows the move silently check then consider boots of elvenkind for 2500 gp. And remember even if they hear you they already see the room get brighter anyway so it's not much use. They need to beat the DC by 20 to find out what square you're in.

Or another thing is that the +1 from bardic music is a very minor part of your strategy; any time you get ambushed and don't have prep time I wouldn't waste a round on it anyway. You could live with the DMs ruling. Then you could silence yourself and use SLAs; or whatever else.

[Piggy Knowles]

I used a pixie pyrokineticist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm) as a recurring NPC once. It was so much fun that it almost made me want to play a pixie.

This was some time ago, so I don't remember the build exactly, but I believe it was something along the lines of Ape Totem Barbarian (Whirling Frenzy variant) 3/Fighter (Sneak attack thug variant) 3/Pyrokineticist 4. A lot of whirling, power attacking, Fire Lash-y goodness.

[Hanuman]

Why because their wings always make a humming bird noise and there's no way to suppress it? What gives them that exclusion when ultra-silent owls roll move silently?

As for blade bravo and cha, maybe I'm looking at the wrong blade bravo but I'm confused why the class needs cha at all. You don't need feint, and can't goad while invisible.
I think their personal reasoning is that gliding no, flapping yes.
The consensus is generally flying no, but we re-decide that every time someone raises their voice.

[rmg22893]

Pixie Warmages are BEYOND ridiculous. I played one a while ago and my entire adventuring party promptly murdered him (well, attempted to) after one or two dungeons because he would blast things to bits without much effort at all. Combine Orb flinging with the Warmage damage boost, the pixie's ridiculous ability score adjustments, permanent greater invisibility, spell resistance, and insane dexterity scores, and you have an unhittable invisible nukemage that destroys everything.

[Heatwizard]

But again, unfortunately, the DM's ruined Bard for me now. I don't know if it's in the rules exactly, but he actually wants to make the party do Listen checks to hear bardic music, and knowing this party, they could actually FAIL this.

That's pretty goofy; but on the other hand, all they have to do is make DC 0. Even a guy with no ranks and Wisdom 8 can't flub that.

If you're still interested in Bard and want a sneaky way out of Listen checks, though, you can use Perform(Dance) or Perform(Weapon Drill) to activate Bardic Music. (At least for Inspire Courage, I forget if it counts for the others) I mention Weapon Drill because you get a circumstance bonus of half your BAB to that. Sorta weird, flavor-wise, but...

e: And if he asserts that they need to roll Spot for that, throw your PHB at his head.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Pixie Warmages are BEYOND ridiculous. I played one a while ago and my entire adventuring party promptly murdered him (well, attempted to) after one or two dungeons because he would blast things to bits without much effort at all. Combine Orb flinging with the Warmage damage boost, the pixie's ridiculous ability score adjustments, permanent greater invisibility, spell resistance, and insane dexterity scores, and you have an unhittable invisible nukemage that destroys everything.

Only Warmages don't get the orb spells, or they might actually be worth playing. And they can't pick them up, because they are Conjuration spells, not Evocation. And as for the rest of blastomancy... well... you must run in very different campaigns than I do.

[rmg22893]

Only Warmages don't get the orb spells, or they might actually be worth playing. And they can't pick them up, because they are Conjuration spells, not Evocation. And as for the rest of blastomancy... well... you must run in very different campaigns than I do.

I would check your sources before you go trying to prove someone wrong next time, because they definitely DO have access to the Orb spells. Go to Complete Arcane and check the Warmage spell list, page 90, to be exact. They get access to all lesser orb spells as first level spells, and all normal orb spells are fourth level.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I would check your sources before you go trying to prove someone wrong next time, because they definitely DO have access to the Orb spells. Go to Complete Arcane and check the Warmage spell list, page 90, to be exact. They get access to all lesser orb spells as first level spells, and all normal orb spells are fourth level.

Hmm... so they do. However, they are completely unable to properly leverage it, unless you go Incantatrix, in which case a Mailman build by any other name still relies on Incantatrix and metamagic-stacking.

Dealing damage is for melee. A barbarian pixie, particularly the one I described two pages ago, would *EASILY* out-damage your build, wouldn't run out of spell slots, and be even harder to kill.

So... you're building a character which is *WORSE* at what it does than a basic melee build. Yea... good job there.

[Metahuman1]

You know Sneaky, the idea is NOT to be nigh-unstoppably optimized. If it was he'd be playing a Grey Elf Batman Wizard.





Having said that, here's a thought that occurred to me more recently. Play a warblade with either the Superior unarmed strike feat or at least one level (If not all three.) of fist of the forest, and MAYBE one level dips into Barbarian for pounce and/or Cleric for Travel devotion. Pick up mostly Stone Dragon and White Raven Maneuvers, depending on play-style dip a bit of Iron Heart and/Or Diamond mind for counters. Have the party Caster put Greater Mighty Wallop on you before every combat, maybe take Natural Attack. You'll be fine.


Or perhaps a Duskblade? Dip a PrC that let's you get some casting and Barbarian/Cleric for extra movement to give you something other then Shocking Grasp/Vampiric touch to attack with and pick up Power attack with a two handed weapon and Knowledge Devotion.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You know Sneaky, the idea is NOT to be nigh-unstoppably optimized. If it was he'd be playing a Grey Elf Batman Wizard. The precise quote I was refuting was 'pixie warmages are beyond ridiculous', pointing out that they are, in fact, just plain ridiculous. Just like any other flavor of Warmage.


Having said that, here's a thought that occurred to me more recently. Play a warblade with either the Superior unarmed strike feat or at least one level (If not all three.) of fist of the forest, and MAYBE one level dips into Barbarian for pounce and/or Cleric for Travel devotion. Pick up mostly Stone Dragon and White Raven Maneuvers, depending on play-style dip a bit of Iron Heart and/Or Diamond mind for counters. Have the party Caster put Greater Mighty Wallop on you before every combat, maybe take Natural Attack. You'll be fine.I'd probably say that you could do a better job with a Swordsage and Shadow Blade to negate the problems with a low strength, but that is perfectly viable as well.


Or perhaps a Duskblade? Dip a PrC that let's you get some casting and Barbarian/Cleric for extra movement to give you something other then Shocking Grasp/Vampiric touch to attack with and pick up Power attack with a two handed weapon and Knowledge Devotion.

That's also a valid notion.

[Mantarni]

In the earlier posts he said his group allows Weapon Finesse to use dex for damage as well. So he doesn't have to build around making up for low str.

That's part of why I was recommending that shuriken hijinks build style, with such a high dex bonus things can get crazy.

[ericgrau]

I think their personal reasoning is that gliding no, flapping yes.
The consensus is generally flying no, but we re-decide that every time someone raises their voice.
Point was that even gliding owls need to roll move silently, or they wouldn't have a redonkulously high racial bonus. Like insects or hummingbirds pixies never stop flapping to hover so it's arguable whether it's even possible for them to be quiet, let alone say they're quiet without needing to roll as the previous poster seemed to imply.

I can see the argument for not rolling when gliding, but I can tell you that when owls are way up in the air out of earshot scouting for something to swoop down on they don't need to be quiet. Oh well, it's agreed that flying pixies aren't automatically noiseless either way.

[Mantarni]

I'd say it's less "agreed" and more that anyone who thinks otherwise recognizes saying so will only turn this into yet another egotrip argument thread and wants to avoid it.

I'd like to know what the OP decides on, with the different suggestions he's gotten to this.

....Quick thought, could a psionic class/bard hybrid do its songs through telepathy? It would eliminate the need for listen checks.

[Zale]

I just love this thread.

I'm going to have to play a pixie at some point.

[rmg22893]

I just love this thread.

I'm going to have to play a pixie at some point.

"Nope, I'm invisible" will quickly become your standard response for all DM questions directed at you. :P

[Hanuman]

I'd say it's less "agreed" and more that anyone who thinks otherwise recognizes saying so will only turn this into yet another egotrip argument thread and wants to avoid it.

I'd like to know what the OP decides on, with the different suggestions he's gotten to this.

....Quick thought, could a psionic class/bard hybrid do its songs through telepathy? It would eliminate the need for listen checks.
I thought about that recently too, I would really appreciate a feat or somesuch being able to allow you to speak "psionic" as a special language.

[Mantarni]

"Nope, I'm invisible" will quickly become your standard response for all DM questions directed at you. :P

I'd rather go the opposite direction -- stop going invisible entirely, for most of your leveling progression if need be. Make it so the DM stops considering it as a course of action you're likely to take and puts priority on preparing for other threats; they won't forget about it, but if you haven't done it once in over 10 levels... (This can be used most with a melee build)

Then, at level 18 or so when the BBEG is about to use plot item/potion/whatever to gain immortality/power/whatever... :smallwink:




I thought about that recently too, I would really appreciate a feat or somesuch being able to allow you to speak "psionic" as a special language.
Not a feat, but it's there: a 1 level dip in mindbender PrC gets you 100ft telepathy, for example. What I was wondering is if there was some way bard songs could be used through that.

[Hanuman]

Not a feat, but it's there: a 1 level dip in mindbender PrC gets you 100ft telepathy, for example. What I was wondering is if there was some way bard songs could be used through that.
There's a feat now =P
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226079

[khadgar567]

as I read this treat you my friend just need greater mighty walloping (8 higher caster level one and have medium creature reach and damage)as your main weapon and secondary a bladed gauntlet full of good poison Imo just go invisible than hit jugular vein on bbeg( or main trouble maker ) whoola he/she is near death and no one has f ing idea of who the heck just assassinate him/her then you just need to bolt with alacritous stride(whitch triples your fly speed for turn which I prefer with everlasting metamagiced) to safety of your party no class or gish required

[Tarlek Flamehai]

Have you considered DFA? Entangling Exhalation never gets old.:smallsmile:

[ShurikVch]

What no pixie pie?
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/6/61/Pinkie_Pie_Breezie_ID_S4E16.png/revision/latest?cb=20140308033653