Challenging the Golem

[Greymane]

In a game I'm currently running, one of my players is playing an Iron Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8982582&postcount=1018) created by Gorgondantess. He's hit level 8, and between him and the Dragonfire Inspiration Bard in the group, he's pretty much a terrifying howitzer that wrecks everything in his path. His grappling hook also, officially, makes him Blitzcrank of League of Legends fame.

Now, I can only think of so many fun and interesting ways to challenge him, and so I've come to beseech you, my fellow playgrounders, as to some variety in challenging this metel behemoth. Any spells that targets Constructs specifically? Interesting monsters? I have much of the of the 3.5 library at my disposal, sans Eberron. This game is the Red Hand of Doom and takes place in Faerun if that helps anything.

[Tvtyrant]

Outgrapple him? Have a Malconvoker send tons of buffed minions at him and pounce the heck out of him? Have a break in a room with spikes on both the ceiling and the floor, and then have a glyph of reverse gravity send the bard into the ceiling ones (which are too far away for him to buff the golem)? Build an illuisionary floor that the bard can't get through but the golem automatically falls through?

[Greymane]

The Malconvoker idea is a good one. I hadn't thought of swarming him with tons of demons. Reverse Gravity could also ruin his day, as he doesn't have a method of flight. I'll definitely keep that in mind. Traps aren't likely to make an appearance until they hit the Fane of Tiamat, and by extension, same goes for the illusion floors.

Are there any spells out there that effect only Constructs? He's not immune to magic (completely) yet. A flying spellcaster with a contingent Freedom of Movement ruined his day once already, but I really didn't have anything exciting to chuck at him. Lightning Bolts were fun, though.

[Tvtyrant]

Disintegrate has potential against such a low will save. Tons of damage with a very high chance of success.

Also, Dragon Fire Adept/Dragon Shaman with Entangling Breath can pin him in place and then meta-breath nuke him with none-magic damage. Make sure you don't kill him, and have the enemy run after the big blast. Next time you fight mooks he springs out and blasts both the golem and the mooks, claiming that his trap worked.

[Coidzor]

SR: No spells are the best in general anyway, though I'm tired so all I can think of is the blasty blasty of the Orb spells.

[Greymane]

Hm. The Bard's DFI is Electricity. Are there any big (Large+) critters at CR 8-10 that are immune to Electricity out there?

[Krazzman]

How about Rustmonsters? A wizard with the rust spell?

[Gwendol]

Shatter? Anything that damages objects is likely to work. Freezing him in place? Cool him down to -273 C and then it him with a hammer? :smallsmile:

[CTrees]

"The next adventure will be in the underwater lair of the aboleth lich."

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Shambling Mounds not only are immune to electricity, they gain temporary hit points from it, that would make for something obnoxious for the dashing duo to encounter!

A Warlock with Vitriolic Blast would be a terrifying opponent... it's a ranged touch attack without SR... toss HFW on top of it to truly frighten him. Best of all, warlocks can get energy resistance fairly easily, and Lightning is one of the flavors on the menu to resist. Also, with things like Fell Flight and Flee The Scene, they're surprisingly difficult to lock up in melee.

[Weezer]

Shatter? Anything that damages objects is likely to work. Freezing him in place? Cool him down to -273 C and then it him with a hammer? :smallsmile:

You don't think that absolute zero is just a slight bit of overkill? Let alone the fact that it's impossible. :smallamused:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You don't think that absolute zero is just a slight bit of overkill? Let alone the fact that it's impossible.

So is a human flying without mechanical aid. Altering or bypassing the laws of thermodynamics is an apprentice's warm-up exercise.

Also, as it is a construct, not living material, reducing temperature does not necessarily inflict damage.

[Runestar]

Will-targeting spells like glitterdust are great ways to debuff him without the player feeling like you are going out of your way to screw him over. These are standard anti-fighter tricks. :smalltongue:

A martial adept using stone dragon maneuvers can easily penetrate his dr, and mind over body to counter his breath weapon.

[Mnemnosyne]

Orb of Electricity.

He's immune to spells that allow SR, and there's as far as I'm aware, no rule that allows him to voluntarily lower this immunity, so he cannot be affected by Protection from Energy or anything of that nature. If he has magical items to thwart that, then use an antimagic field against him. Pair a caster with a non-caster, have the caster throw up an AMF on his melee buddy, send the guy into melee combat. The AMF deactivates any magical items protecting the golem, the caster uses instantaneous conjurations with SR: No to do damage, and Orb of Electricity applies a Slow effect on the golem keeping him from full-attacking the melee buddy.

[Greymane]

How about Rustmonsters? A wizard with the rust spell?

That's a novel idea. I could give Ulwai a pair or so as little pets. Could be fun.


Shambling Mounds not only are immune to electricity, they gain temporary hit points from it, that would make for something obnoxious for the dashing duo to encounter!

HOW DID I FORGET SHAMBLING MOUNDS?! Those things are perfect! They're in the Lhespenbog (Blackfens) right now, so they should work great there.


A Warlock with Vitriolic Blast would be a terrifying opponent... it's a ranged touch attack without SR... toss HFW on top of it to truly frighten him. Best of all, warlocks can get energy resistance fairly easily, and Lightning is one of the flavors on the menu to resist. Also, with things like Fell Flight and Flee The Scene, they're surprisingly difficult to lock up in melee.

I hadn't thought of using a Warlock at all. I was worried they would be way too squishy to perform well, but I see I was pretty wrong. I'll throw that on the table too!


Will-targeting spells like glitterdust are great ways to debuff him without the player feeling like you are going out of your way to screw him over. These are standard anti-fighter tricks. :smalltongue:

A martial adept using stone dragon maneuvers can easily penetrate his dr, and mind over body to counter his breath weapon.

Glitterdust is one of the first things I grab as a player, and then completely forget it exists when I DM. I'll definitely use this. It's low enough that just about any caster could/should have it.

And they have learned the hard way that every Hobgoblin has been sporting a lot of Iron Heart and Stone Dragon abilities. They just usually demolished the suckers before they get more than one hit on them.


Orb of Electricity.

He's immune to spells that allow SR, and there's as far as I'm aware, no rule that allows him to voluntarily lower this immunity, so he cannot be affected by Protection from Energy or anything of that nature. If he has magical items to thwart that, then use an antimagic field against him. Pair a caster with a non-caster, have the caster throw up an AMF on his melee buddy, send the guy into melee combat. The AMF deactivates any magical items protecting the golem, the caster uses instantaneous conjurations with SR: No to do damage, and Orb of Electricity applies a Slow effect on the golem keeping him from full-attacking the melee buddy.

Some good ones in here, but I won't be using anti-magic fields anytime soon. Too high of a level, even if it would do a good job of shutting down the DFI Bard. Then the Rogue might get some more time shine too... Eh, maybe.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I hadn't thought of using a Warlock at all. I was worried they would be way too squishy to perform well, but I see I was pretty wrong. I'll throw that on the table too!

And for the Bard... Chilling Tentacles. Awful hard to perform when you're all tied up at the moment, and Bards have notoriously poor grapple checks.

Do remember, please, that Warlocks are not the type to shout "Stand and Deliver!". The first time you realize a Warlock is pissed at you is when his Invisibility wears off and you've got a glob of acid winging your way... and with Walk Unseen... that's unlimited-use invisibility. Handy for sniping and moving.

[00dlez]

"The next adventure will be in the underwater lair of the aboleth lich."

I was thinking along these lines as well; some simple traps added to an encounter might be able to take him out of the fight for a bit. A pit trap that opens into a vat of water... acid? How's his swim check these days?

Is his foot speed on par with the party's? Could set up a series of shifting walls (recall Star Wars Ep. 1 with the Darth Maul fight.) or other obstacles that push him out of position. Maybe a trap door drops him to a lower level and it takes him a while to get back into the fight?

[Morbis Meh]

Make a giant electromagnet using a mounted 8 ft pole, 50ft of copperwire and a wizard with an electric reserve feat and plenty of minions

[CTrees]

Make a giant electromagnet using a mounted 8 ft pole, 50ft of copperwire and a wizard with an electric reserve feat and plenty of minions

Electromagnets would... definitely be the extreme humor option...

[paddyfool]

You could always go Linear Guild on them and come up with some alternative or inverse version of what they seem to be ("big damn robot + buffer"). Options on this:

- A shaper psion and his astral construct
- A cloistered cleric researching how to end the world and his warforged juggernaut bodyguard
- An actual other iron golem and other bard, with different feat/upgrade/spell etc. selection
- A wizard who's built his own [iron/flesh/whatever] golem and wants to test it against others out there. Could be a recurring opponent with a series of different big damn robots to bring to the fight.
- A dragon and his warforged [whatever class as buffbot] buddy.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Please tell me, for my own sanity, that the Iron Golem's name isn't Alphonse...

Also, the golem isn't a valid target for Inspire Courage, which is a Morale effect, which the golem, being immune to mind-affecting, is thus immune to. DFI is based on IC, so I don't think that would fly either. I don't have my books handy to confirm, but I believe it simply modifies the result of Inspire Courage, but doesn't change the fact that it is a mind-affecting effect...

[Greymane]

Please tell me, for my own sanity, that the Iron Golem's name isn't Alphonse...

Also, the golem isn't a valid target for Inspire Courage, which is a Morale effect, which the golem, being immune to mind-affecting, is thus immune to. DFI is based on IC, so I don't think that would fly either. I don't have my books handy to confirm, but I believe it simply modifies the result of Inspire Courage, but doesn't change the fact that it is a mind-affecting effect...

Heh, the Golem's name is Atlas. Given he has a strength score of 31 at the moment, seemed fitting.

Well, DFI specifically states it replaces the normal morale bonus granted to apply the energy attacks. It doesn't say that the energy attacks are a morale bonus, so I just let it fly. If it IS a morale bonus, I'd love to smugly tell them the next time they get into a fight.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Heh, the Golem's name is Atlas. Given he has a strength score of 31 at the moment, seemed fitting.

Well, DFI specifically states it replaces the normal morale bonus granted to apply the energy attacks. It doesn't say that the energy attacks are a morale bonus, so I just let it fly. If it IS a morale bonus, I'd love to smugly tell them the next time they get into a fight.

It's not the fact that it's a morale bonus, it's the fact that Inspire Courage is explicitly called out as a mind-affecting effect. And DFI doesn't change this.

Mind you, I'd probably let him blow a feat to pull it off (like Requieum but for constructs), but, as written, he's not a valid target.

[Jack_Simth]

The Malconvoker idea is a good one. I hadn't thought of swarming him with tons of demons. Reverse Gravity could also ruin his day, as he doesn't have a method of flight. I'll definitely keep that in mind. Traps aren't likely to make an appearance until they hit the Fane of Tiamat, and by extension, same goes for the illusion floors.

Are there any spells out there that effect only Constructs? He's not immune to magic (completely) yet. A flying spellcaster with a contingent Freedom of Movement ruined his day once already, but I really didn't have anything exciting to chuck at him. Lightning Bolts were fun, though.
Let's see...

Greater Shadow Conjouration (Wall of Stone) is crazy-fun. You get a nonmagical chunk of rock that permits spell resistance (and has a 60% likelihood of passing people that pass the Will save, 100% stopping power for those who don't). Do that as a section of flooring over a hard-to-climb pit at a deliberately low caster level, and Mr. Golem falls through while everyone else has line-of-sight and line-of-effect blocked.

Ranged attackers scattered along high-up wall cubbies are always fun.

The Orb line from Spell Compendium lets you SR: No blast at people with low level mook casters (Lesser orbs).

Grease, Web, and Wall of Thorns are a pain for anyone (grease especially in slanted terrain with a terrain hazard at the end).

[Greymane]

It's not the fact that it's a morale bonus, it's the fact that Inspire Courage is explicitly called out as a mind-affecting effect. And DFI doesn't change this.

Mind you, I'd probably let him blow a feat to pull it off (like Requieum but for constructs), but, as written, he's not a valid target.

That's a really good point. Well, I'll give him the bad news. I won't mind. I really don't think he needs the extra 10d6 lightning damage to crush faces. If he shows interest in burning a feat on it, I'll work something out with him.


Let's see...

Greater Shadow Conjouration (Wall of Stone) is crazy-fun. You get a nonmagical chunk of rock that permits spell resistance (and has a 60% likelihood of passing people that pass the Will save, 100% stopping power for those who don't). Do that as a section of flooring over a hard-to-climb pit at a deliberately low caster level, and Mr. Golem falls through while everyone else has line-of-sight and line-of-effect blocked.

Ranged attackers scattered along high-up wall cubbies are always fun.

The Orb line from Spell Compendium lets you SR: No blast at people with low level mook casters (Lesser orbs).

Grease, Web, and Wall of Thorns are a pain for anyone (grease especially in slanted terrain with a terrain hazard at the end).

All good ideas, and I'll be sure to make use of them. Seems like I've been needing to use lots of spells to challenge this group of heroes. Especially when the Artificer provides such cheap gear.

Semi-related note: is DFI damage multiplied in a crit? I've been treating it as such because I haven't seen anything disallowing it.

[Randomguy]

Any spells that targets Constructs specifically?

Ray of deanimation. SR: No, no save, 1d6 damage per caster level against constructs.

[Greymane]

Ray of deanimation. SR: No, no save, 1d6 damage per caster level against constructs.

A bit underwhelming, but neat! What book is that in?

[Weezer]

A bit underwhelming, but neat! What book is that in?

Spell Compendium I think.