Best Gestalt for Samurai flavor?

[Master Thrower]

So i'm looking to make a character with samurai flavor (no actually cw samurai involved) especially around the idea of the quick draw. So to do this on one half of my gestalt I have-
Factotum 8
Iaijutsu Master 10
Exemplar 1
X 1

However I have no idea what to Gestalt with this build. I am the party skill monkey, but thats very well covered by factotum and my high int

Stats-
Str-10
Dex-14
Con-16
Int-18
Wis-10
Cha-18

(No stat boosting items yet)

So what to gestalt with? Most 3.5 material, except no ToB:smallfrown: so no factblade

[Aegis013]

No ToB?
How about...
Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian 1/Dungeoncrasher 6/Swashbuckler 13

The Pounce and rage (when you're not using iaijutsu) give you a bit of a boost, the dungeoncrasher gives you dungeoncrasher (awesome) and some feats, and the swashbuckler's int+dex synergy helps since you already have great int and good dex.

[deuxhero]

Obligatory

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html

No ToB rules out the obvious two.

Duskblade is a full BAB class that has int synergy.

[Master Thrower]

Obligatory

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html

No ToB rules out the obvious two.

Duskblade is a full BAB class that has int synergy.

Well ofc I don't want levels of samurai! If I did my character couldn't do what I had in mind!

But while spirit totem barbarian is interesting it doesn't fit the character concept( a lawful good samurai)

[Yora]

Paladin/Monk wouldn't be MAD, it would be AAD. All Abilities Dependent. Intelligence would be the only one in which a medium score would be okay, but for the style of the character, it should probably be even the highest score.

[Master Thrower]

Paladin/Monk wouldn't be MAD, it would be AAD. All Abilities Dependent. Intelligence would be the only one in which a medium score would be okay, but for the style of the character, it should probably be even the highest score.

Well niether of those options don't really help me get the flavor im looking for, and they don't help with high ECL encounters. Im using Iaijutsu focus, with iaijutsu master to get +9d6 in damage, +cha damage to all dice.

[Aegis013]

Just tear out of the fluff from the Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian. It's just for the pounce so you can do the whole epic showdown, where two swordmasters face off, dash at each other and make their attack, then they stand there for a few seconds and one keels over. /shrug I thought it was a decent suggestion.

[candycorn]

Carmendine Monk and Holy Warrior Paladin would remove Wisdom from the equation, replacing Monk AC with Intelligence, and removing paladin spells for bonus feats.

[skycycle blues]

I don't think Monk would really do much to help here. Maybe make the other side a Gish build? Sorcadin build would give you lots of Charisma fun. Or you could try one with three levels of Duskblade. Channeling spells seems thematically appropriate for a Samurai if you ask me.

[Metahuman1]

Duskblade wouldn't be bad.

I advise the Barbarian be a first level dip and you never use anything except pounce and the help to the Fort save and few extra Hit Dice points.


I'm not terribly familiar with Binder, but that might be something to look at. Same with Psiwarrior.

But really, Swordsage and Warblade are the absolute BEST options.

Sorry, wee bit distracted while typing.

[Lateral]

Carmendine Monk and Holy Warrior Paladin would remove Wisdom from the equation, replacing Monk AC with Intelligence, and removing paladin spells for bonus feats.


Paladin/Monk wouldn't be MAD, it would be AAD. All Abilities Dependent. Intelligence would be the only one in which a medium score would be okay, but for the style of the character, it should probably be even the highest score.

Not that this is important at all, because this guy's PC isn't Miko.
---
Hmm... I'd actually recommend going Factotum 19/Exemplar 1 on one side and taking your Iaijutsu Master levels on the other side. That way, you can take fuller advantage of the fact that Iaijutsu Master is full BAB while still getting the skills of a Factotum. Plus, more IP is always wanted, and Factotum 19 is ridiculously good.

Unfortunately, Iaijutsu Master requires being Lawful, so you can't take Barbarian levels. Perhaps, on the other side, you could go with a Paladin 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Fighter 1/ Iaijutsu Master 10/ X 4.

[skycycle blues]

Not that this is important at all, because this guy's PC isn't Miko.
---
Hmm... I'd actually recommend going Factotum 19/Exemplar 1 on one side and taking your Iaijutsu Master levels on the other side. That way, you can take fuller advantage of the fact that Iaijutsu Master is full BAB while still getting the skills of a Factotum. Plus, more IP is always wanted, and Factotum 19 is ridiculously good.

Unfortunately, Iaijutsu Master requires being Lawful, so you can't take Barbarian levels. Perhaps, on the other side, you could go with a Paladin 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Fighter 1/Iaijutsu Master 10/ X 4.

Tome Of Battle is not allowed. And he could take a single level of Barbarian and later become lawful. He would lose the ability to rage but he would be taking Barb for Pounce anyway.

[Lateral]

Tome Of Battle is not allowed. And he could take a single level of Barbarian and later become lawful. He would lose the ability to rage but he would be taking Barb for Pounce anyway.

...What the hell are you talking about? I didn't use Tome of Battle. :smallconfused:

Yes, I suppose you could go Barbarian and then become Lawful, but being Chaotic and then becoming Lawful doesn't really fit the flavor of a samurai. Hell, he even *said* it wouldn't work for his build. Read before you speak.

[Cespenar]

I don't know if Skirmish stacks with Iaijutsu, but if it does, Scout/Ranger/Dervish for the other side?

[skycycle blues]

...What the hell are you talking about? I didn't use Tome of Battle. :smallconfused:

Yes, I suppose you could go Barbarian and then become Lawful, but being Chaotic and then becoming Lawful doesn't really fit the flavor of a samurai. Hell, he even *said* it wouldn't work for his build. Read before you speak.

Sorry. I swear I saw the word Warblade in your post.
And Barbarians don't have to be Chaotic, only non-Lawful, so it seems that a level of that could fit in somewhere.

[Master Thrower]

Not that this is important at all, because this guy's PC isn't Miko.
---
Hmm... I'd actually recommend going Factotum 19/Exemplar 1 on one side and taking your Iaijutsu Master levels on the other side. That way, you can take fuller advantage of the fact that Iaijutsu Master is full BAB while still getting the skills of a Factotum. Plus, more IP is always wanted, and Factotum 19 is ridiculously good.

Unfortunately, Iaijutsu Master requires being Lawful, so you can't take Barbarian levels. Perhaps, on the other side, you could go with a Paladin 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Fighter 1/ Iaijutsu Master 10/ X 4.

Hrmm Taking Iaijutsu master on the other side makes alot more sense, So with that in mind, I do want pounce, So Lion totem barbarian 1 (sorry to whomever I criticized for this idea, I didnt realize I would keep pounce thanks!) Paladin 2, swashbuckler 3, Iaijutsu Master 10, then idk how to finish it off.

[Master Thrower]

Just tear out of the fluff from the Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian. It's just for the pounce so you can do the whole epic showdown, where two swordmasters face off, dash at each other and make their attack, then they stand there for a few seconds and one keels over. /shrug I thought it was a decent suggestion.

Thank you btw much better at getting this past my DM, and making it make sense in my head :smallsmile:

[erikun]

Unarmed Swordsage seems like a good fit on the other side. Wear leather armor, gain WIS to AC, and have a large stock of techniques? Good deal.

Kensai always struck me as what they tried to do with the various Samurai classes: producing a personalized, magical weapon important to the character.

You might also want to take a look into the Swiftblade. It is a very good gish on its own, and a Paladin//Sorcerer/Swiftblade would likely end up very good.

As for the Barbarian discussion, isn't there a Fighter variant that gives something similar to pounce as well? I'm not familiar with Fighter ACFs. You could also take a single level of Cleric for Travel Domain/Travel Devotion (for mobility) and Knowledge Devotion. They would actually fit the samurai theme rather well, as samurai tend to be protrayed as wise and well-learned, and so using their spirituality to suddenly appear behind an opponent, or using their knowledge to strike where it hurts, would be rather fitting.

[skycycle blues]

Hrmm Taking Iaijutsu master on the other side makes alot more sense, So with that in mind, I do want pounce, So Lion totem barbarian 1 (sorry to whomever I criticized for this idea, I didnt realize I would keep pounce thanks!) Paladin 2, swashbuckler 3, Iaijutsu Master 10, then idk how to finish it off.

If you happen to be an Elf, you could finish off with 4 levels of Champion Of CL(the elf god, whose name I don't feel like butchering) from Races Of The Wild. At either level 2 or 3, it grants Dex bonus to damage with a list of weapons that if I'm remembering correctly meshes very well with the Swashbuckler's Insightful Strike.
It also grants some bonus feats, although it requires some bad feats to enter, and lets you do things like move faster in heavier armor and increase your max Dex bonus with medium and heavy armor.

[Aegis013]

Hrmm Taking Iaijutsu master on the other side makes alot more sense, So with that in mind, I do want pounce, So Lion totem barbarian 1 (sorry to whomever I criticized for this idea, I didnt realize I would keep pounce thanks!) Paladin 2, swashbuckler 3, Iaijutsu Master 10, then idk how to finish it off.

Lol, it's all good. I'm just here to offer suggestions.


Thank you btw much better at getting this past my DM, and making it make sense in my head :smallsmile:

Haha, yeah, I thought putting it in a proper context would make it more thematic.

Edit: You can get pounce from the +1 LA Feral Template also, if Lion Spirit Totem Barb isn't going to work, but Savage Species stuff is often not allowed.

[Master Thrower]

Lol, it's all good. I'm just here to offer suggestions.



Haha, yeah, I thought putting it in a proper context would make it more thematic.

Edit: You can get pounce from the +1 LA Feral Template also, if Lion Spirit Totem Barb isn't going to work, but Savage Species stuff is often not allowed.

Well savage species is the only other book on a strictly no basis, but im not as against that as i am the banning of ToB. which prob happened cause the same guy tried to pass a d2 crusader, then an idiot crusader (which isnt game shattering, but enough to be the last straw.

[Randomguy]

A two level dip in fighter would give you bonus feats, which are always useful, especially if you plan on two weapon fighting.

Knight has good charisma synergy, if you plan on using a shield.

Grey guard is pretty easy to qualify for, since you've already got a dip in paladin. It increases your spellcasting a little, it's got full BAB, it improves lay on hands and smite evil and gives a few other bonuses (such as making it easier to not fall.) It also gives two good saves.

If you want to take a few skill tricks (sudden draw, maybe hidden blade and acrobatic backstab all seem useful) then combat trickster would do well.

[Master Thrower]

Also as cool as a non-spell casting character is, do you guys think its worth it do a gish? Either wizard or sorcerer based as im pumping up both my cha and int

[deuxhero]

For Barbarian, you don't lose anything for "falling" if you trade away rage (Baring rage equivlents, fighting style is in UA off the top of my head, you can trade that away for wildshape if you want or just use the bows).

It can work fluff wise, the character is just a common solider who preformed so exceptionally as to gain the status of "Samurai".

[skycycle blues]

Also as cool as a non-spell casting character is, do you guys think its worth it do a gish? Either wizard or sorcerer based as im pumping up both my cha and int

Well, if you're taking Factotum to 19, there's no room.

But if you're not, Sorcadin builds are nice. Paladin 2/Sorcer 4/SpellSword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8. You hit 9th level spells and all your attacks and you get Turn Undead so if you pick up any Devotion feats, you can fuel those.

A build I haven't played yet, but seems good to me is Duskblade 3/Wizard 3/SpellSword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8, which also gives you 9ths, all your attacks Turn Undead and Arcane Channeling.

The biggest difference between the two is you lose out on Divine Grace in favor of Spell Channeling. Fluff wise, they're pretty much the same thing. Both seem very appropriate thematically.

[hex0]

Knight has good charisma synergy, if you plan on using a shield.


I was going to suggest Knight as well. You know, full BAB and d12 hit die and all. Knight//Factotum makes a great Attack of Oppurtunity build as well.

Also, Zentarim Fighter could work well.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Drop Iaijutsu Master to 5, it makes more room for useful prestige classes. That way you're not spending five levels to get two lackluster class features.

I'd use either Kensai or Psychic Weapon Master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d). Kensai is the easy choice, something like (Full BAB) 5/ Kensai 1/ Iaijutsu Master 5/ Kensai 9// Factotum 20. Psychic Weapon Master is considerably better, though entry would be mostly based on which ability score you want to use. You're already needing Int and Cha for Factotum and IM, so Psychic Warrior would be the least ideal considering MAD. Psion gets better manifesting and even bonus feats, go Egoist or maybe Nomad or Seer, maybe even Kineticist, or there's Wilder which doesn't seem to have any advantages over Psion. Gaining enough feats to qualify could also be an issue, plus you want to stagger your Psion levels along side of Psychic Weapon Master to keep full manifesting. It'll get complicated, but you'll end up with a much stronger character in the long run.

[hex0]

(Full BAB) 5

Kensai Variant Fighter from Dragon Magazine fits. Maybe OA Samurai if Possible. Or yeah...Knight

[Master Thrower]

Drop Iaijutsu Master to 5, it makes more room for useful prestige classes. That way you're not spending five levels to get two lackluster class features.

I'd use either Kensai or Psychic Weapon Master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d). Kensai is the easy choice, something like (Full BAB) 5/ Kensai 1/ Iaijutsu Master 5/ Kensai 9// Factotum 20. Psychic Weapon Master is considerably better, though entry would be mostly based on which ability score you want to use. You're already needing Int and Cha for Factotum and IM, so Psychic Warrior would be the least ideal considering MAD. Psion gets better manifesting and even bonus feats, go Egoist or maybe Nomad or Seer, maybe even Kineticist, or there's Wilder which doesn't seem to have any advantages over Psion. Gaining enough feats to qualify could also be an issue, plus you want to stagger your Psion levels along side of Psychic Weapon Master to keep full manifesting. It'll get complicated, but you'll end up with a much stronger character in the long run.

I really like this idea, so I will now post a more fleshed out build

Race- Human? Grey Elf? Dragonborn Grey Elf?

Classes- Factotum 20// Pouncebarian 1, Swash Buckler 3, Fighter 1, Iaijutsu Master 5, Kensai 9.

My signature weapon will be a katana that I can weapon finesse and add int to damage,

It'll be a cold iron katana, but what magical enchantments should I use, I would like to either use Holy or Axiomatic, or both (Just to hate on Demons)

Feats-
1 Improved initiative
2. Weapon Finesse (B)
3.Quick Draw
5. Combat expertise (B)
6 WF (Katana)
9 Font of Inspiration
12. Font of Inspiration
15 Font of Inspiration
18 Font of Inspiration

Any critques/advice welcome!

[Aegis013]

If flaws are available, grab you some. Get a couple feats earlier or a couple of Fonts of Inspiration at first level.
If you're using Weapon Finesse, probably Dragonborn is not the way to go (rare as that is).
I'd take Human, for sure, over the other options. Another Font of Inspiration or push back the other feats a bit further.

If you're doing Pounce, Power Attack, Imp Bull Rush, Shock Trooper are a very powerful combo to consider (You can fit them in without tossing anything else out with Flaws + Human)

[Big Fau]

I'm not terribly familiar with Binder, but that might be something to look at. Same with Psiwarrior.


Actually, a reflavored Binder or Meldshaper who drew power from his ancestors would be really thematic for a Samurai.

[Lateral]

I really like this idea, so I will now post a more fleshed out build

Race- Human? Grey Elf? Dragonborn Grey Elf?

Classes- Factotum 20// Pouncebarian 1, Swash Buckler 3, Fighter 1, Iaijutsu Master 5, Kensai 9.
Iaijutsu Master requires +6 BAB, so you'll need to change that. I'd recommend replacing Fighter 1 with Paladin 2- Divine Grace is a good thing.


Feats-
1 Improved initiative
2. Weapon Finesse (B)
3.Quick Draw
5. Combat expertise (B)
6 WF (Katana)
9 Font of Inspiration
12. Font of Inspiration
15 Font of Inspiration
18 Font of Inspiration

Any critques/advice welcome!
Eh, you don't need that many Fonts of Inspiration. Go Human, so you can qualify for everything in time without needing a Fighter dip, and replace one of those Fonts with something else.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Do note that Kensai requires a lawful alignment, so you'll lose your Rage ability if you go with Barbarian.

Human, Factotum 20// (Fallen) Lion Spirit Barbarian 1/ Swashbuckler 3/ Wild Shape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) 1/ Kensai 1/ Iaijutsu Master 5/ Kensai 9

Flaw. Font of Inspiration
Flaw. Combat Expertise
H. Improved Initiative
1. Weapon Focus
2. Weapon Finesse (B)
3. Knowledge Devotion (with Collector of Stories)
6. Quick Draw
9. Font of Inspiration
12. Font of Inspiration
15. Combat Reflexes*
18. Defensive Sweep*
*or whatever else you want

Wild Shape Ranger is there for fast movement, replace it with Fighter if you can't use flaws.