3.5 Combat Only game?

[Yutiko]

Recently my DM (after talking to each of us players individually) has decided to make our compaign combat only. Many of the players felt the story was not progressing at all (mostly due to a lot of them spending half an hour real time searching a single room etc.) Also there was next to no combat. So now the campaign is just "Here are these guys, kill them or run away."

My question is, has anyone done this sort of thing before? I enjoy combat, but I also enjoy story progression/roleplaying. I am concerned that it will get old fast. I am honestly thinking of making up little mini-story for each fighth to make it easier for me.


*edit* Sorry if this should have been poated in the 3.5 section, posting from my phone and it lagged out. Then when I tried to back out of the post it posted it here /facepalm

[SamBurke]

Recently my DM (after talking to each of us players individually) has decided to make our compaign combat only. Many of the players felt the story was not progressing at all (mostly due to a lot of them spending half an hour real time searching a single room etc.) Also there was next to no combat. So now the campaign is just "Here are these guys, kill them or run away."

My question is, has anyone done this sort of thing before? I enjoy combat, but I also enjoy story progression/roleplaying. I am concerned that it will get old fast. I am honestly thinking of making up little mini-story for each fight to make it easier for me.

You mean... half of all 3.5 played? No, make that 75%. This is common; just give them a new villain, a new challenge, and a new description. It should satisfy.

[Mordokai]

This is pretty much the premise of 4E dungeon delves. I believe it's called dungeon crawling in 3.5.

So yeah, it can be done. Sure, it's always moore fun with a story to connect everything, but for a quick relaxing session, I guess it would work great.

[Yutiko]

This is pretty much the premise of 4E dungeon delves. I believe it's called dungeon crawling in 3.5.

So yeah, it can be done. Sure, it's always moore fun with a story to connect everything, but for a quick relaxing session, I guess it would work great.



It's not just a quick relaxing session. From my understanding it's going to be every session from now on until the DM says the "campaign" is over.

How are we supposed to know when it's over? I mean with no story it's essentially just waiting for our DM to say "Alright, your mission is complete. Campaign over."

[gbprime]

Yeah, unless the DM is great at setting up exotic locales, situations, and terrain to throw a wrench into the combat, it gets old fast. One of the best things about the d20 system is it's skill system, which you are effectively throwing out.

Honestly, if you want that kind of action, try wargaming instead. Having a lance of battlemechs, a unit of warjacks, or a fleet of ships to hammer on each other is (IMHO) a better use of your time than using 3.5 D&D as nothing but a gladiatorial arena.

[Rorrik]

That's... depressing. If your group is having trouble roleplaying and want to move quickly then I guess you could skip the room searching and puzzles and all (though that is my favorite part). But even then, it seems to me like the DM should still give a little narrative explaining how you got from fight one to fight two to fight three, so at least the campaign still exists and there is a story to enjoy. It would still seem like a low quality railroad job, but better than no story at all.

[erikun]

Sounds like X-Crawl (http://www.goodmangames.com/xcrawl.html), honestly.

But yeah, there is nothing wrong with just a basic dungeon crawl game, or even individual sessions. There were a lot of old-school D&D games that were basically one giant 1st-level to 20th-level dungeon with an encampment outside for acquiring things in town... and maybe not the encampment. I'd suggest that the DM try to come up with a few decent personalities if he wants to play that, or at least come up with some pre-written text for the random dungeon he's throwing you into if that is his idea.

Modules work out well for this sort of thing, too. You can always skip the intrigue and throw players into the combat rooms if needed. Heck, if you don't mind a bit of work (looking up 3.x monster stats) you can even use modules from other editions, and just throw in roughly CR-appropriate encounters.

[00dlez]

In high school (close to a deacade ago at this point I guess) our group tended more towards hack and slash than RP, and the DM went with it. Each week (or whenever we played) he had a dungeon or area set up for us to explore, and at the end of the session we'd find a "shard" and a map to the next locale.

It was basic, simple, and towards the end we completed the magic item to which the shards belonged, become ultimately enlightened and entered a state of total bliss for eternity; thanks for playing, game over. It's what we as players wanted, and the DM delivered.

BUT what it seems has happened in your case is that the DM is forcing hack and slash onto a group that is otherwise content taking time to search rooms exhaustively, RP in between encounters, etc?

It seems that the DM needs to spend some time getting to know what it is the players want from the campaign, and then take the time to deliver, or find another DM for the group.

[Mr. Zolrane]

It seems that the DM needs to spend some time getting to know what it is the players want from the campaign, and then take the time to deliver, or find another DM for the group.

This. Ultimately it's about the players, not the DM. The DM's fun should be a function of the players' fun.

[MukkTB]

If the DM wants more combat and less searching rooms for traps he should forgo using traps and puzzles very often and jump the party with a bunch of monsters when he gets bored.

"No that tile doesn't have any traps or anything..." Rolls dice "You all failed your spot checks. The Kobold ambushers get to go first."

"No that pot doesn't have anything in it." Rolls dice. "The skeletons are angry that you're in their pot. They're coming out of their crypts for you! Roll initiative."

"As King I can't allow you to-" Rolls Dice "Somebody shot the king with an arrow! ROLL FOR INITIATIVE! FOR GOD AN COUNTRY!"

You see a combat can break out any time the DM gets bored.

[Mr. Zolrane]

If the DM wants more combat and less searching rooms for traps he should forgo using traps and puzzles very often and jump the party with a bunch of monsters when he gets bored.

"No that tile doesn't have any traps or anything..." Rolls dice "You all failed your spot checks. The Kobold ambushers get to go first."

"No that pot doesn't have anything in it." Rolls dice. "The skeletons are angry that you're in their pot. They're coming out of their crypts for you! Roll initiative."

"As King I can't allow you to-" Rolls Dice "Somebody shot the king with an arrow! ROLL FOR INITIATIVE! FOR GOD AN COUNTRY!"

You see a combat can break out any time the DM gets bored.

I once had a DM who instigated a fight while the party was having dinner. We were served fresh ostrich... very fresh... "roll initiative" fresh...

[Yutiko]

Most of the player would enjoy more combat. However the DM told me that he has trouble coming up with story material. He is good at making fight interesting via traps on the battlefield/ambushes/etc.

The problem that I see with most of the players (myself included) is that we are completionists. Give us any RPG and all of us want to collect or find every single piece of treasure and equipment, do all the optional boss fights, and get max level (even when max level is completely un-needed) before we finish the storyline. I feel that's why we exhaust ourselves searching every nook and cranny.

That leads to a bigger problem which is that we all want more combat. So basically it leads into at least half the group going: Search everything -> Okay done let's fight something now (or the other way around) when the DM has it set up so that a cave may only have one or two encounters.


P.S. We have been talking about maybe switching to a wargame. Something like Mordheim or a homebrew version of it using stock "heroes" that we create like D&D characters that can hire/have monsters as troops.

[MukkTB]

Yeah I think you want a tabletop battle game, at least for a bit.

[Rorrik]

If the DM wants more combat and less searching rooms for traps he should forgo using traps and puzzles very often and jump the party with a bunch of monsters when he gets bored.

"No that tile doesn't have any traps or anything..." Rolls dice "You all failed your spot checks. The Kobold ambushers get to go first."

"No that pot doesn't have anything in it." Rolls dice. "The skeletons are angry that you're in their pot. They're coming out of their crypts for you! Roll initiative."

"As King I can't allow you to-" Rolls Dice "Somebody shot the king with an arrow! ROLL FOR INITIATIVE! FOR GOD AN COUNTRY!"

You see a combat can break out any time the DM gets bored.

I'm fond of doing this when the party seems to be stuck on one track of thought. It usually shakes them up enough to get them to move in another direction and not get bogged down in wrong thinking.

[00dlez]

It'd be easier to talk directly to the DM for this, since the problem seems to be on his end of things. But what I think would be best is to expedite your completionist OCD and get things back on track quickly with story and combat.

Say after a fight the party wants to search a room, have each searching member make a roll, tell the DM the results, let the players know what they found and move on. No re-rolls, no rolls to search the pot, then the chest, then the bed, 1 roll per room and move along.

Things that they don't need search checks for are quest/story items... still make them roll, don't let them know that they always find stuff without a roll, but having them finding story relevant clues will keep them pursuing said clues (based on the description of the players) and so long as you have encounters ready that keep everyone entertained, it should be a fun time for all.

[Novawurmson]

Combine the two: Make it an anime. A tournament is being held in on a demiplane to decide _________ (the final location someone's sound, a battle between the gods, the fate of the material plane, the next Druid King, etc.) and the adventurers have been called to represent their people. Small amounts of roleplay happen between fights and you have some "rivals" and "friends" who you want to do poorly/well in the tournament. Each week is a battle in a custom arena designed by a crazed wizard named Geve, who officiates.

[Dimers]

The Ig Nobel prizes have an interesting mechanism for keeping the action going. Not only are the prize winners told ahead of time to keep their acceptance speeches quick, there's an eight-year-old girl who has been told to shout "I'm bored!" whenever things get a little tedious ... or on her whim, whatever. Maybe you need one of those among the players, someone you give the authority to say "Okay, we're done now, let's go pick a fight". Make it the least completion-oriented person in the group. It'll focus everyone more on the important stuff, and when folks just can't focus enough, too bad, the world moves on anyway.

[Knaight]

One of the best things about the d20 system is it's skill system, which you are effectively throwing out.
The d20 skill system is one of the sloppiest, worst designed skill systems I have ever seen. It's tacked on and shows it.

On the concept of a combat only game, it could work, for some people*. That said, it begs the question of why you aren't just playing a miniatures game.

*I say this from the perspective of someone who would hate it.

[panaikhan]

The Diablo 2 third-party conversion had a pretty good stab at this.
The random item generation tables were sweet too, in my opinion.

The Diablo class converstions didn't work too well in a non-Diablo setting however, and I wasn't keen on the equipment degradation rules.

[Dsurion]

The d20 skill system is one of the sloppiest, worst designed skill systems I have ever seen. It's tacked on and shows it.

On the concept of a combat only game, it could work, for some people*. That said, it begs the question of why you aren't just playing a miniatures game.

*I say this from the perspective of someone who would hate it.May I ask what your preferred skill systems are? I've recently been looking to expand my games collection, and any look into alternative ideas is always good.

[Slipperychicken]

DM told me that he has trouble coming up with story material.

You could get a co-DM to do story material, while your current DM runs combats. They work together, providing you with both things.

[Dr.Epic]

How do you do only combat? You need some plot and motivation to get you to the combat. What is it like random encounters, you just walk around and eventually you come across a bunch of monsters?

[RichardErickson]

I'm the one running the "combat only" campaign,

Does anyone remember the random dungeon delve rules from the Miniatures Handbook? That's what I'm running currently, a Random Dungeon Campaign. I would like to think of the current campaign as more of a dungeon crawl. Skills are still used and will be used- things to jump, hiding to do, traps to find. We started our last session late so I just went right into the meat of things. All of the players are completely new to D&D, most to any form of role playing at all. It seemed as though the first session went against what they thought things were going to run like. But when I threw down the board and laid everything out the third session it seemed as though people's expectations were being met.

I don't intend for it to be completely devoid of story and role playing but for now the story can be summed up as go kill the Big Bad at the bottom of the Dungeon. I think it would be more appropriate for the players to come up with their own reasons for why their characters are delving into the dungeon. I feel the players need to work with a DM to make the story up but whenever there is talk of D&D it's stats this and abilities that. I will gladly work character goals into the campaign. look at how the Order of the Stick comic starts- pure dungeon crawl. The story is that of the characters, not mine.

I think most everyone was happy at the end of the last session and isn't that what is important? People I talked to told me they had fun, yourself included, now I'm not so sure. If I'm doing it wrong, and you would rather DM by all means please do so. I was just doing what the group asked me to run A challenging dungeon crawl with high risk/reward type adventure. A board game essentially.

[Ernir]

I think most everyone was happy at the end of the last session and isn't that what is important? People I talked to told me they had fun, yourself included, now I'm not so sure. If I'm doing it wrong, and you would rather DM by all means please do so. I was just doing what the group asked me to run A challenging dungeon crawl with high risk/reward type adventure. A board game essentially.

It's pretty hard to D&D wrong if everyone is having fun with it.

Just keep paying attention to what the players really think of what's going on. It's usually not very hard to spot the player that's getting bored of combat. If that happens, you know what to do.

[Knaight]

May I ask what your preferred skill systems are? I've recently been looking to expand my games collection, and any look into alternative ideas is always good.

The various Fudge/Fate skill pyramids are always nice, then there is Cortex, which handles skills fairly well (though the system is deeply flawed elsewhere). Chronica Feudalis is also good, as a demonstration for simple rules light lifepath character generation. Of these, Fudge is free, Fate is kind of free, Cortex might be free (though you would be using an outdated version), and Chronica Feudalis isn't exactly expensive.

[zanetheinsane]

If you've got the money to spare, look into getting a copy of World's Largest Dungeon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_Largest_Dungeon). You'll see them on eBay for $100+ but you can easily get them for $50-$60 just by being patient.

Make sure not to settle for the first listing that comes along. You'll want one that has the included maps intact.