What does my party need?

[Sir_Chivalry]

One of my players will be rejoining the group after some time overseas, and he wants to figure out what character to make.

So far we have:

A warforged crusader (going crusader, perhaps some knight)
A grey elf paragon/wizard (going sentinel of bharrai)
A half-elf ranger/warblade (going revenant blade and eternal blade)
A human cleric (going deathstalker of bhaal and strifeleader)
A gruuwar warlock (going binder and hellfire warlock)

My new player would prefer to not play a rogue, a role he has played in two previous campaigns (once as a rogue, once as a factotum)

[00dlez]

Well the only thing that is really missing is a skill monkey... I'm guessing with that party's starting lineup that he won't be jazzed about playing a bard... rogue/factotum are out... Maybe a cleric with high INT/WIS that is able to fake his way through skill checks could be handy... and worst case scenario, he's still a cleric.

[Emmerask]

pretty obvious what you need :smallbiggrin:

Bard!

[deuxhero]

Malconvoker is a very different way of dealing with traps.

[Pilo]

A cleric or a mage, it will depend of which of them will die the first when they will torn appart each other.
An exalted dude and an evil guy don't fit well in the same group.

[DrDeth]

Skillmonkey, and dedicated healbot. The cleric doesn’t seem like he’s going to do much in the way of healing or buffing. The Ranger variant in the Dungeon splatbook can do the skillmonkey role. If he’s a archer ranger, he’ll be useful, although that role is covered by the warlock.

Are you sure you want to go the Evil route?

[Morbis Meh]

Why not play as a scout? Or as a kobold cloistered cleric with the kobold and trickery domains so they can skill monkey it up while playing as a divine caster?

[DoctorGlock]

Beguiler can skillmonkey like a boss and has great RP oriented skills so it will never be boring

chameleon can change roles every day, so there's that as well

cloistered cleric with kobold domain can trapfind and skill while buffing

[DrDeth]

True, Beguiler is a nice skillmonkey, but it sux vs undead.

OP- You’re the DM- how trap heavy will your game be? How critical will having a “face’ be? Stealth?

[Metahuman1]

A Trap Smasher Barbarian (Variant form Dungeon Scape.) Might come in handy. He can find the Traps, Destroy the Traps, and do combat. He can also do some other Scout stuff with his skill points, and Intimidate so that he has something to do most of the time.

[hex0]

A Trickster Spellthief could work (Dragon #353). Preferably playing a Neraph. See if you can use the spontaneous/spontaneous variant of Ultimate Magus.

Beguiler 1/Trickster Spellthief 2/Beguiler 2/Unseen Seer 1/Ultimate Magus 10/Unseen Seer 4

Or play a fifth wheel like a Dragon Shaman/Dragon Lord

[Daftendirekt]

Bardblade?

[Eldariel]

Beguiler, Artificer, Bard & Druid would all be interesting do-it-all options, none too Rogue-like but all more or less skilled (and getting Trapfinding isn't terribly hard if you feel the need) and covering what the party currently lacks while being strong enough on their own.

[DoctorGlock]

True, Beguiler is a nice skillmonkey, but it sux vs undead.

Arcane disciple fixes this.

[deuxhero]

How is Beguiler bad against undead? Sure your enchantment half is useless, but mindless things have no mind to ignore illusions before they interact, regardless of how obviously an illusion it is, don't really interact with stuff while idle and are thus fooled by anything.

Create a wall around them and they are helpless. Tons better than rogue.

[*.*.*.*]

Artificer is a beast of a fifth will and would really help with crafting gear. Artificers can also trapfind~

[Eldariel]

How is Beguiler bad against undead? Sure your enchantment half is useless, but mindless things have no mind to ignore illusions before they interact, regardless of how obviously an illusion it is, don't really interact with stuff while idle and are thus fooled by anything.

Create a wall around them and they are helpless. Tons better than rogue.

They also have good buffs (e.g. Haste, (Greater) Invisibility & co.), Legion of Sentinels, Glitterdust, Slow, Solid Fog & more at their fingertips automatically available.

If you can't contribute against mind-affecting immune opponents as a Beguiler, you probably wouldn't perform any better with any other spellcaster since the only likely reason is you are not really looking for options in the first place but rather following some set machine-like sequences encounter in, encounter out.

[Jeff the Green]

I'll throw my vote in for Beguiler too. Good skill monkey, and dealing with mindless things isn't too hard. You can grab Song of the Dead from Dragon (+1 metamagic to make enchantment affect undead) if there are a lot of undead , and mindless undead are even more likely to fall for illusions and the like.

Plus, even though you're essentially a magical rogue, it doesn't play like one. You get bonuses from flanking, yes, but you'd have to be very stupid to try it. It's very much a battlefield control class.

[#Raptor]

Heres some other ideas:

Archivist can support the party with Dark Knowledge and stuff, adding a lot of damage to everyone. Also has a lot of skills due to high Int... fun to have skills in every knowledge.
Ooooh and the spells you can have... excuse me while I'll wipe my own saliva off the floor. Did you know, for example, that Archivist can get Black Tentacles as a level 3 spell? And if theres ever really, absolutely no divine version of the arcane spell you're looking for.... you'll still have Anyspell (spell domain). :smallbiggrin:
One may feel a bit cheesy playing a archivist though, as you'll pluck all those nasty goodies from domains, ranger (swift haste? ok), and paladin (Lions charge? okeeey...), Shaman (*cough*giantsize*cough*) spells and so on.
Though I guess that really is the point of Archivist.

If he'll go for a trapfinder ranger... also make it a shifter ranger. Go into Master of many Forms, etc. Should be fun and not too overpowered.

Another idea would be spirit shaman. Some say it's the best summoner because it can let it spirit concentrate on spells for it. Also, free (or was it really cheap?) resurrection and a few other decent class features.

Druid could be another way to cover the whole nature angle.

Or... some arcane gish.
Seems you've got a few decent tanks already, time for a glass cannon.
Either one of the Fighter/Wizard builds with half a dozen PrC's or just a simple (yet still pretty effective) Duskblade.

[gorfnab]

A ranged Swift Hunter would be able to handle traps and add more ranged support to the party. Bard would also make for a great support character and can go ranged as well.

[Coidzor]

If the Ranger/Warblade isn't already taking care of traps? Dungeonscape.

[killem2]

Speaking from a different point of view here, why not make encounters accent what the party can do, rather than worry about incorporating something they can't do?

[Darth_Versity]

Another +1 for Beguiler. If you can't handle undead then you are doing something wrong. Also has massive roleplay fun thanks to its amazing spell list

The ranged swift hunter is another great idea. It gets respectable damage and decent skill set.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Speaking from a different point of view here, why not make encounters accent what the party can do, rather than worry about incorporating something they can't do?

Because this isn't about adding a DMPC, it's about incorporating an existing player who has been out of country, thus he wants to play something.

[Metahuman1]

Well, you've got a couple of options here, to put it lightly.

But I think what the above was getting at was, why not simply NOT hit them with much in the way of traps and focus on other things that make them use the combat and spell casting and skill sets they already have, then then just flat tell him "You can literally be anything in the game you want to be and will make it work."

[motoko's ghost]

A bard to boost your morale with song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZwuTo7zKM8)

[Sir_Chivalry]

Well, here's his thoughts


Okay, so I have 3 characters that could work.

Panroar Shieldrunner

Strengths: Buffing, Healing, Crafting, Pets can defend other party members

Weaknesses: Everything else


Name: Panroar Shieldrunner Race: Human Class: Artificer 1st – 5th/ 6th-15th Shaper of Form/ 16th-20th Artificer

Panroar is a young man who is overtly concerned about others. He took to making things in his spare time to entertain sick children with his creations. As his skills improved, he attempted to manufacture medicines on his own. Though he gained a great deal of praise for his efforts, no one was willing to test his work, partly due to errors in its creation and partly due to his age. To prove his nay-sayers wrong, he secretly tested his cures on some of the sick and impoverished in the area, focusing his efforts on those who were too poor for real doctors and desperate enough to try anything.

His cures all failed. When he found out, he scrambled to create something to defend himself with. He was ambushed in his uncles home by one of his patients, his iron defender Romulus still incomplete. Forced to fight on his own, he slew the intruder.

His attacker was River Roseborn and her disease was unknown. All attempts to cure her illness by magical and mundane means had all failed. Young, scared and alone she had turned to Panroar's remedies for help and now, in the throws of death, she spread her illness to him. Gnawing one of the gashed on his left hand he had suffered from the fight, she bled and spat into the wound and infected her killer.

Though toughened by the encounter, Panroar's outlook has remained unchanged. He still tries to help and he finds, but is more likely to test his cures on himself before others and has become more preoccupied with preventing illness and injury than fixing what cannot be undone.


Suelita Dieu-de-Guerre

Strengths: Mid-Range Combat, Buffs & Debuffs at higher levels, some long range combat, some social skills

Weaknesses: Everything else


Name: Suelita Dieu-de-Guerre Race: Human Template: - Class: Master 1st-2nd/ Exotisist 3rd/Swordsage 4th-7th/ Coinsword 8th-14th/ Merchant Prince 15th -19th/ Swordsage 20th

Suelita Dieu-de-Guerre gets his last name from his forefathers exploits during times of war. His family is one of great wealth and prosperity and is know for the production of soldiers.

Suelita himself never joined the family business, instead deciding to open one on his own. His clientele and wears change drastically from month to month as he attempts to anticipate the markets.

With a lucrative business at hand, Suelita fronted money he did not have from his family's savings, without their knowledge. As weeks passed, he readied to let his family in on his transactions and their now even greater wealth. What he discovered, however, was that he had been the victim of a pyramid scheme. His family was now nearly destitute and they would soon find out it was his fault.

His brothers away at war, his father tending to Suelita's ill and dying mother and grandmother, no one would find out about his fails for months. So, Suelita took to the road, with his fathers weapons in hand, offering services and wears at bottom-out prices trying to earn back his family's wealth, gained through generations, in one year


Markas Aqwershrinson

Strengths: Buffing, Healing, other Druid spells, close to mid-range combat, debuffs at higher levels

Weaknesses: Everything else

Name: Markas Aqwershrinson Race: Strongheart Glimmerskin Halfling Template: Divine MinionClass: Divine Minion 1st/ Halfling Druid 2nd/Luck Domain Incarnate 3rd-4th/ Halfling Druid 5th – 6th/ Druid 7th-8th/Luck Domain Incarnate 9th-10th/ Luckstaler 11th-20ththth/

Markas Aqwershrinson comes from a small displaced group of nomadic halflings. In years long pasted, their tribe was protected by a benevolent gold dragon. Living so close to a creature of such great power made the tribe adventurous and many traveled far a wide, throughout the realms and planes in search of other powerful creature of lore and mysterious beings.

When the gold dragon finally died, the tribe fell under siege by many irritated and greedy souls in search of the dragon's treasure. instead of staying to fend of the brutes, the tribe relocated deep into the dessert.

During their short years in the dessert the tribe knew nothing but strife. An angry blue dragon, sensing the gold dragon's influence on the tribe, hunted them mercilessly. Few survived and those that did fled the terrible dessert.

The Aqwershrinson family, however, were not so fortunate. Their ancestor bred with the dragon, seeking peace. Now, they share the dragon's name.

Markas Aqwershrinson traveled back into the desert seeking the foul beast only to find religion instead. He studied the Mystery of Thrice-Greatest Thoth and for years dedicated himself to the church. After years of contemplative meditation, he came to a revelation; the truth of Thoth was the God was infact weaved into the fabric of the universe itself and, likewise, weaved into nature.

Upon coming to this realization, he left the church and turned his devotion to nature, using his unnatural lineage to battle the enemies of nature, balance and truth.

NOTE: I normally wouldn't allow the divine minion template, because taking it wit Master of Many Forms is so broken. Luck Stealer is a poor PrC though, so I feel it balances, and I stayed away from any MoMF levels, so it's not bad at all.

Let me know if any of these work for you.

[Eldariel]

Well, while Shaper of Form isn't exactly the most natural companion for Artificer (given it doesn't actually give you a Craft Pool or advance the relevant crafting abilities, has a weird skill list and requirements that don't mesh all that well with Arti), the first one is still probably a pretty decent fit for the party.

Polymorph is regardless an amazing ability so a class that gives you a few Polymorphs is pretty strong in and of itself. The item shaping abilities it gets are cute, if not quite on the level of magic. The open-endedness of its abilities obviously means creativity will allow him to do a lot.


The second one seems fine, and the third one is...well, weird. It might just work out alright though.

But yeah, artificer to make some toys for everyone and provide support magic would probably work out alright.