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killem2
2011-12-13, 12:22 PM
In a session this weekend, we killed a mother brown bear, and discovered a cub that she left behind. We reared it, so we can train it through out the months and sessions we have and use it later for combat.

Is there a clean progressive we could use to say get the bear from cub, to say the HD level in the MM, then have it able to gain levels from 6-10 as per the MM under brown bear?

And what is a reasonable way to simulate age. We will play once a month usually 6-8 hours.

Cieyrin
2011-12-14, 11:41 AM
For a brown bear to fend for itself or at least be able to function somewhat, it should probably be about a year old and they reach full adult size and maturity by the time they're 4-5. So, I'd gander a cub would be at 1 HD and small and would gain 1 HD every 8 months of in-game time. It should advance in size at 3 and 5 HD.

For the advanced HD, I'd go by a combination of experience and age (honed bear skills aren't all about fighting other things). An accurate advancement would probably be a year of adventuring a HD. If you want it to advance faster, that'd be a function of either training it as a Warbeast (template from MM2) or making it somebody's Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a), in which their boon companion status gives them power. They couldn't be selected till 10th level, though Natural Bond can get you there 3 levels earlier.

If you want something more specific than that, I could throw together a Savage Progression later.

RedWarlock
2011-12-14, 12:26 PM
My general standing reference for young and baby animals is 1/2 HD and one size lower (with stat adjustments) for a young animal, and 1/4 HD and two sizes lower (likewise) for a newborn/hatchling.

So, lets see:

Brown Bear (Adult)
6HD Large animal
Str 27, Dex 13, Con 19, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6

Brown Bear (Young)
3HD Medium animal
Str 19, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6

Brown Bear (Baby)
1HD Small animal
Str 15, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6

I could see dropping score a little more to suit, but a 15 str does give them a pretty decent capacity for climbing, something baby bears are known for. (I can't recall if that also applies to brown bears, though.. I know it does for black bears..)

Cieyrin
2011-12-14, 01:09 PM
My general standing reference for young and baby animals is 1/2 HD and one size lower (with stat adjustments) for a young animal, and 1/4 HD and two sizes lower (likewise) for a newborn/hatchling.

So, lets see:

Brown Bear (Adult)
6HD Large animal
Str 27, Dex 13, Con 19, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6

Brown Bear (Young)
3HD Medium animal
Str 19, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6

Brown Bear (Baby)
1HD Small animal
Str 15, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6

I could see dropping score a little more to suit, but a 15 str does give them a pretty decent capacity for climbing, something baby bears are known for. (I can't recall if that also applies to brown bears, though.. I know it does for black bears..)

Brown Bear cubs do climb, yes. There is a precedent for small creatures using Dex for Climb instead of Str, so I'd be for having that in affect for a baby bear and transition from High Dex, lower Str into full-on bear strength.

I'd also reduce the mentals on a baby bear, at least the Wis, for with age comes wisdom, as the old adage goes. So Wis 8, 10, 12. Maybe the same for Cha, though I'd do 4, 5, 6, since newborns have difficulty telling themselves from other things as part of the mental development process. I'd even go so far as to make a baby bear have an Int of 1 but advance it to 2 for young and older bears.

RedWarlock
2011-12-14, 01:44 PM
(edited above post, got the dex mods off)

I could see doing that.. I thought that kind of size-based swap only kicked in at Tiny, though.. Small PCs being fairly common.

Cieyrin
2011-12-14, 01:59 PM
(edited above post, got the dex mods off)

I could see doing that.. I thought that kind of size-based swap only kicked in at Tiny, though.. Small PCs being fairly common.

Hmm...yeah. It would be awkward to switch it out later, and it doesn't make that big a difference. +2 Climb doesn't seem like a lot but its enough to climb a tree, which is DC 15. I'm sure there are bears who've flopped out of a tree before from a low roll, too. Most of the time, I'd think the bigger ones just have a rank invested and take 10 to get up.

killem2
2011-12-14, 06:39 PM
Here is what I had been messing with. Its an excel file so bare with me.

http://www.filedropper.com/brownbearprogression

I finished this before I looked at this thread, but I will be re looking over the charts.

Cieyrin
2011-12-14, 09:00 PM
Here is what I had been messing with. Its an excel file so bare with me.

http://www.filedropper.com/brownbearprogression

I finished this before I looked at this thread, but I will be re looking over the charts.

As Red and I were discussing, young creatures tend to be more dextrous, which your spreadsheet doesn't show at all. I'm also confused why it doesn't have any feats till it hits 6 HD. A baby bear is probably good at Running, learning to pace itself as it gets older and picks up the finer points of hunting once its finally able to fully fend for itself. It should also probably go into its fur, as I don't think a cub is nearly as thickhided as a momma bear. Finally, I don't think the hp reflects the Con score of each stage, as I have no clue how a newborn bear manages 11 hp on a d8-2. NPCs don't get max hp on their first HD, they get avg, so it should have 2.

killem2
2011-12-15, 10:52 AM
Yeah I had a lot of confusion over how in the MM the bear has 6d8+24, but at level 1 did it really have an 18 con?

Its more for frills than anything else.

The real tricky part is, how do you do the advancement? I assume that 7-10 on the brown bear entry in the MM, is for level 7-10? or 7-10 HD?

Sgt. Cookie
2011-12-15, 11:58 AM
For monsters, and thus animals, Hd is the same as levels. So something with 3 Hd could only start taking class levels at character level 4. So 7-10 are "bear level" Hd.

Cieyrin
2011-12-15, 07:49 PM
For monsters, and thus animals, Hd is the same as levels. So something with 3 Hd could only start taking class levels at character level 4. So 7-10 are "bear level" Hd.

Exactly. Specifically, this describes how all monsters advance by their type: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#increasingHitDice. That section also describes other bits for improving monsters, which may be of use.

killem2
2011-12-16, 12:37 AM
Exactly. Specifically, this describes how all monsters advance by their type: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#increasingHitDice. That section also describes other bits for improving monsters, which may be of use.

That..

is perfect.

Thank you. I think we know what to do.

RedWarlock
2011-12-16, 02:59 AM
Keep in mind, though, that advancement by type isn't intended to represent an individual's growth, but a more powerful variant of an existing creature stat block. The archetypical example is three normal wolves, and one 'alpha' wolf who is advanced a couple HD.

(Also, animals AFAIK can't advance by character class, you need a minimum 3 intelligence to take class levels.)

killem2
2011-12-16, 12:58 PM
That's ok, I'm the DM, and this is the same policy I'll use across the board to keep it simple. My players and included I, enjoy the challenge and possible burden of trying to raise these random animals while we try to adventure :)
We just wanted SOMETHING to at least be able to role play with.

Cieyrin
2011-12-16, 02:06 PM
That..

is perfect.

Thank you. I think we know what to do.

It's also in the MM, if you'd rather use a book. I tend to have that preference. :smallwink:

Blynkibrax
2011-12-19, 12:35 PM
So, you senselessly murdered this poor bear's mother and, before she was cold in the ground, abducted the cub with plans to brainwash it into serving as your attack beast, condemning it to a life of servitude?

You, sir, are an inhuman monster and you should feel bad about yourself.

Cieyrin
2011-12-19, 01:19 PM
So, you senselessly murdered this poor bear's mother and, before she was cold in the ground, abducted the cub with plans to brainwash it into serving as your attack beast, condemning it to a life of servitude?

You, sir, are an inhuman monster and you should feel bad about yourself.

Which is better than leaving it out in the wilds, where without its mother it'll probably starve to death or get eaten by something else? And who says it'll be an attack beast, it could be a Circus Bear, Bobo Bear the Ball Balancer, who mauls you to death if you don't like his trick. :smalltongue:

killem2
2011-12-19, 01:35 PM
So, you senselessly murdered this poor bear's mother and, before she was cold in the ground, abducted the cub with plans to brainwash it into serving as your attack beast, condemning it to a life of servitude?

You, sir, are an inhuman monster and you should feel bad about yourself.

We could have left it for dead. We took it under our wing, and are going to give it the best possible life we can. :smallamused:

But with that said, its going to eat its own weight in food lol, so we have to get something out of it. We'll let it eat the goblins we kill along the way.

With that said, we didn't kill the mother with out reason, it attacked us. We were in the care of a local authorities armored transport, that had 6 war horses and they were our responsibility, we couldn't let a pissed off mama bear kill them lol.

Blynkibrax
2011-12-19, 02:08 PM
Well, when you put it like that, I suppose it's alright. But by thunder, you better love that cub like it's your own baby child, or they'll be trouble!

killem2
2011-12-19, 02:14 PM
Well, when you put it like that, I suppose it's alright. But by thunder, you better love that cub like it's your own baby child, or they'll be trouble!

Are you kidding? We're going to ride into the sunset, taking down baddies and when i'm rich enough, this bears getting steaks! lol

killem2
2011-12-21, 01:55 PM
Ok, here is the updated excel file.

http://www.filedropper.com/brownbearprogression_1

I had a fellow player look over what has been suggested and sourced here, and I think we found a pretty steamlined way of dealing with age progression for any animals we may end up handling in a similar way.