Dragon vs Phoenix scaling

[gooddragon1]

Do dragons (using the advanced dragon template for epic stuff) scale better than Phoenixes or the other way around with increasing HD and CR and why?

For the example let's use a silver dragon.

It's one of those questions I've forgotten that I wanted to remember to ask. :D

[Big Fau]

Phoenixes are feathered, not scaled. Bad joke aside, there is only one set of Phoenix stats in 3.5; MM2).

[Tvtyrant]

Phoenixes are feathered, not scaled. Bad joke aside, there is only one set of Phoenix stats in 3.5; MM2).

rimshot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0PIdWdw15U)

[tyckspoon]

Assuming you're talking about the MM2 Phoenix? It's not really any kind of fair comparison. Dragons are natural spellcasters with better physical stats; they have much better native scaling, because a higher-CR dragon is a better caster as well as a better fighter (and when you get into Epic, they can use Epic Spellcasting and get free Improved Spell Capacity if you advance them far enough.) Phoenixes get.. nothing. Even if you advance them (they don't have a normal advancement entry) there's no provision for any of their abilities to improve. A 40 HD Phoenix is not drastically different from the stock model; a 40 HD dragon is a unique creature with unpredictable and personal abilities.

[Runestar]

The mm2 phoenix suffers from a variety of problems which hamper its effectiveness as a viable opponent (see my link for the full analysis). Basically, it is too fragile for its cr, its cr is inflated anyways, and it is essentially a 1-trick pony (immolate itself every round, the party must effectively 1-shot it).

So yes pound for pound, dragons make for way better challenges, not least because of all the support they receive. :smallsmile: