[3.5 only] 20th level wizard build with 15th level wizard casting?

[Kantolin]

For a relatively brief game I'm in, I'd like to play a wizard (Or Wu Jen) who has a prestige class or multiclass which results in him losing five levels of spellcasting throughout. This will indeed make said character noticably weaker than wizard 20, and I am aware of that.

I thus figured I'd ask the boards, though - what are some really cool prestige classes that are normally held back by losing way too many caster levels, but in this case are ideal for the aimed power level?

(I do plan on taking practiced spellcaster regardless; the goal is primarily 'barely gets 8th level spells'. Losing more than 5 may be acceptable depending on the neatness).

The character will be good, which may limit things a bit. I'd prefer not to go mix it up in melee nor summon things. I can end up as a theurge of some sort, but the more wizardry the better. Character will be made at level 20, so it doesn't matter when the five level drops happen. If game does go epic, it will not utilize epic spellcasting (But I wouldn't count on it going epic).

I was looking at Wizard 15 / Master of the Unseen Hand 5, but am feeling a bit meh about it due primarily to already wanting to use MotUH on a couple other builds, so let's see what the boards suggest ^_^

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Arcane Archer? fighter levels + Eldritch Knight? um... there are several more Im sure, all I can think of right now for some reason though.

[Kantolin]

Arcane Archer? fighter levels + Eldritch Knight? um... there are several more Im sure, all I can think of right now for some reason though.

Hm, let me specifiy in the opening topic that this is 3.5 exclusive, not pathfinder (as I believe pathfinder's AA allows progressing casting, while 3.5's does not). Being ten levels of casting down is five more than I'm willing to go for. :P

Whereas Eldritch Knight is too physical for what I'm aiming for. Thank you, though!

Edit: What the? The topic kept refreshing amidst my typing - and only allowing part of it to go through. O_o

[Enterti]

I vote wizard10/mindbender 10. I've never seen mindbender taken all the way yet.

[Lord Ruby34]

There are some good examples of Mindbender in the Iron Chef competition going on right now. However you specified that you'd like to be good, and mindbenders can't be. If your DM would drop the alignment prerequisites then it might be usable.

[Enterti]

Oh right, forgot the alignment requirements. Well if you really want to sacrifice your power for flavor try looking up the lightening warrior.

[A_S]

1/2 casting PrCs that might interest you:
-Acolyte of the Skin (Wear demons! Still has alignment issues)
-Green Star Adept (lol...become a construct and have really lame fluff)
-Master Transmogrifist (Turn into stuff! Technically 6/10)
-Mindbender (already mentioned)
-Spellsword (Gish?)
-Dragonslayer (Ditto)

Others that seem cool but lose casting levels:
-Effigy Master (Crush them my robot minions!)
-Blood Magus (Nice fluff, not actually good, but...chug, chug, chug!)
-Argent Savant ([Force] spells are good)
-Jade Phoenix Mage (If you don't mind losing caster levels, you can even take all 10 levels of it)

I'm sure there's more...

*edit* Ooh, Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327).

[Urpriest]

What about Rainbow Servant, going by table rather than text?

[Godskook]

Forget finding bad-but-good prestige classes. Start looking at a dip into something else that's useful, like ToB, MoI, Binder, or similar. Swordsage, if you can turn the AC bonus to Int, makes for a fairly strong dip, providing you with quite a few options, some of which won't even feel martial(MotPM for instance).

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Hm, let me specifiy in the opening topic that this is 3.5 exclusive, not pathfinder (as I believe pathfinder's AA allows progressing casting, while 3.5's does not). Being ten levels of casting down is five more than I'm willing to go for. :P

Whereas Eldritch Knight is too physical for what I'm aiming for. Thank you, though!

Edit: What the? The topic kept refreshing amidst my typing - and only allowing part of it to go through. O_o

you dont need to take all 10 levels of arcane archer.. you could just take... 5?

[Fax Celestis]

5 levels of duskblade? *is shot*

5 levels of Archmage?

[Madcrafter]

RAGE MAGE!!!! I've always wanted to play one, even though they suck.

[Dimers]

Five levels of Truenamer. ... What? It's wizard-like in flavor.

EDIT: Somewhat more seriously, take five levels of a divine casting class and then 10 of Geomancer. It's flavorful with some interesting special abilities, and it's not something that normally gets played.

[Hirax]

Wizard5/swiftblade10/fatespinner5 loses 5 caster levels. Wizard5/swiftblade9/spellsword5/mindbender1 is also a possibility.

[gomipile]

How about Wizard 5/Archivist 5/Dweomerkeeper 10(progressing Wizard? ) Assuming that your DM uses Supernatural Spell RAW, that is. Archivist still feels pretty "wizardy," and the flavor of a scholarly researcher of divine and arcane magic becoming a Dweomerkeeper fits quite nicely.

[erikun]

Ooh, Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327).
This is the first thing that came to mind.

Ultimate Magus (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20061010a&page=3) might also interest you. Without relying on Practiced Spellcaster, you will be losing at least 4 levels of wizard (one for the multiclass, three throughout the prestige class) and possibly more if you focus more on the spontaneous class. On the other hand, it can be quite fun, especially with the more situational metamagic you wouldn't always use. Silent Spell, Still Spell, Invisible Spell, and Disguise Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#disguiseSpell) for Wizard/Bard/UM are my favorites.

You might also try dipping into a non-caster class. A few levels of Shadowdancer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/shadowdancer.htm) would probably be pretty interesting with an Illusionist variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionistVariants) that grants you hide as a class skill.

[Flickerdart]

Fleshwarper is troublesome to qualify for without multiclassing (since it requires both a familiar as a class feature and a prerequisite feat that needs 10 ranks in Heal). If you don't care about losing the caster levels, Cleric 4/Wizard 6/Fleshwarper 10 gets you there, and then you can staple freaky grafts to yourself to your heart's content.

[Zaq]

True Necromancer (LM) immediately leapt to mind, but that has alignment issues.

Luckstealer (RotW) is a very cool class with 7/10 casting. I'm sure you can find some way of losing 2 caster levels . . . perhaps a couple levels of Fortune's Friend (CS)? It fits thematically, at least.

[Darth_Versity]

Warblade 1/ Wizard 5/ SwiftBlade 10/ Abjurant Champion 4

Def my pick if I had to lose 5 CL. I know you said gish isn't what your going for but here you have a wizard who can throw up a +9 shield as a swift action, an undisspellable haste as a free action which grants a load of extra bonuses including two standard actions a round.

You can cast a Dispel magic as a swift action each round and use higher level spell slots to get the benefit of a time stop effect which you would normally miss out on due to not having 9ths.

The few of manuevers and a stance to give some added "This is to easy, imma just gonna beat you with my sword" is icing on the cake.

Switching Ab Champ with Jade Pheonix is also an option but I have no actual experience with them.

[Analytica]

What about Rainbow Servant, going by table rather than text?

Seconded, highly so.

[Randomguy]

Wizard 7/void disciple 13. You lose 5 caster levels and gain a few neat special abilities. The most efficient losing caster level builds are gishes, though.

[Endarire]

The classes that lose caster levels but have worthy class features typically don't lose that many caster levels.

Incantatrix, Shadowcraft Mage, Dweomerkeeper, and Planar Shepherd are some of the best PrCs for casters. All have full casting progression. Only Dweomerkeeper might require losing 1 caster level for a pure arcanist, and Planar Shepherd is normally off-limits to a full Wizard, anyway.

If you plan to be a "Wizard" 15/whatever5, then make the whatever5 count. Most likely, you're a gish. Maybe you capitalize on X Stat to Y Bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732).

What do you most want from your 5 levels of whatever, and your 15 "Wizard" levels? Why not get L9 spells?

[ericgrau]

Arcane archer would be good for a 2 level imbue arrow dip on a caster. Tricks include anti-magic field arrows and repulsion arrows, I forget what else.

Force missile mage isn't too shabby for good magic missiles, and only 1 caster level lost.

[Tvtyrant]

There is always Theurging/Cerebramancing could lose you the 5 levels and getting magic stuff in exchange.

[Chambers]

Wizard 7/void disciple 13. You lose 5 caster levels and gain a few neat special abilities. The most efficient losing caster level builds are gishes, though.

I second this. You still play like a Wizard, but you've got a few special tricks up your sleeve that cost you (lost caster levels).

[Psyren]

Thirding Void Disciple, it's often cited as being almost worth it despite losing as many CL as it does.

You could try Rage Mage or Green Star Adept for the heck of it.

[Urpriest]

In addition to Rainbow Servant and Void Disciple, Visionary Seeker from Planar Handbook makes for a cool divination-focused wizard, with solid benefits that normally aren't good enough for the lost caster levels.

[hex0]

Take Force Missile Mage (Dragon Compendium) and Argent Savant, possibly with Warmage/UM tacked on at the end (or middle) depending on what level you start. Edge is nice for the build.

Focused Specialist Evoker 3/Master Specialist 2/Force Missile Mage 5/Argent Savant 5/Warmage 1/Ultimate Magus 4 etc.

I think that loses 5 caster levels if I recall the classes correctly.

[Tenebris]

Another vote for Master Transmogrifist. Polymorph based wizards rarely take it due to 6/10 spellcasting progression, which makes them totally failing on their primary job (polymorph). But if you are willing to give up some level, you are fine.

Maybe:

Wizard 3, Totemist 2, Soulcaster 6, MT 9
(15 spellcasting levels - MT 10 might be better, but only 14 SL).

or

Wizard 4, Monk 1, MT 10, Wizard 5 (with Kung fu Genius)

[Tyndmyr]

On the truenamer topic...Fiendbinder. Taking it 10/10 will lose you 3 CL, so you'll have to lose two more elsewhere, but it does give you some fun stuff for minions, and it goes quite well with straight wizard.

Additionally, Fatespinner 5. Goes well with the above, or with most everything else. Loses 1 CL.

[Ducklord]

I'll second ultimate magus. It has a ton of fun stuff it can do, gives up a few levels of casting and is generally awesome.

Also no alignment restrictions, still feels wizardly and your CL will be able to beat spell resistance every now and then.

[Analytica]

How about Ardent Dilettante from Planar Handbook? Incredibly flavourful, some nice abilities, certainly good-compatible...

... and horrible prereqs. You must multiclass enough to lose caster levels, including a divine casting dip.