[DM 3.5] — Cleaner way to handle Initatives.

[killem2]

First session happened, and this is something that just HAS to get cleaner, it was horrible at first, then as a few rounds go around it was better, but its just wasted time and I'm hoping for suggestions.

[Heliomance]

Can't really help you unless you describe exactly what your problem with it is.

[Siosilvar]

Well, the simplest solution is to have all the players go, then all the monsters go. Cuts out all the work and works out to the same except when the players are intermixed with the monsters.

If you don't want to go whole hog with it, though, try rolling initiative for monsters in groups. So, for example, three kobolds would act on one initiative count and their shaman gets another.

Yet another option is to just have people act in order of Dexterity score, if you find that the rolling at the start of combat is the hard part, and that keeping track in combat isn't too bad.

[missmvicious]

I roll INITs for monsters a day before the session. It really speeds up the process.

You can also have PCs roll session INITs. Have them role up Initiative at the beginning of the session, and that is their Initiative score for the day. They can Delay Initiative each encounter to get into the pattern they would prefer to be in.

[LansXero]

simple way: make a small stat card with every player's name, as well with monsters.

make a pile of them.

whenever someone plays their turn, put their card on bottom of the pile.

read next card to know who comes next.

Done! :D

[Kerrin]

I've been using 3"x5" index cards.

Each character has one with their name and vital stats on it. When they roll initiative I just jot the number in the corner.

I have similar cards for each creature in the session with their initiative pre-rolled.

When an encounter takes place, once I've jotted the numbers on the character cards, I can put them in order with the creatures' cards and start from the top of the stack.

If someone delays their action or readies an action, I just set their card aside until they act. When they do, it makes their card the next one up.

[jiriku]

I typically roll initiative for monsters in groups (e.g. if I have two trolls, three hobgoblins, and a wizard, the trolls both act together, the gobbos act together, and the wizard acts independently). It's helpful to have one player nominated as the initiative tracker (although we use a less flattering term :smalltongue:) who records these things. If your play surface is a magnetic white board, like ours is, then the initiative tracker can record names and initiative counts with a dry-erase marker in one corner of the board. These are visible to everyone, and easily adjusted if someone delays or takes a readied action.

[Drelua]

I just use Combat Manager (http://combatmanager.com/). Unfortunately it's meant for Pathfinder, but that doesn't really matter if you're just using it for initiative, and it still works for hit points. I find it speeds things up a lot, but I don't know if you tend to have a laptop at the table.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

I just roll for party members as individuals, then for the opposing group as a whole. Using the highest, lowest, or average initiative, as I the DM feel fit.

However, I LOVE pitting an equivalent force (i.e. opposing party) against the party, as a true test of skill. In that case, I roll for all individuals. Especially since I spent the time statting out four tailor made characters based on each party members strengths and weaknesses.

[killem2]

Can't really help you unless you describe exactly what your problem with it is.

Its clunky. I find my self rolling for the groups of enemies, then 5 players, 2 dogs, and a humming bird.

The suggestions given however, may just help.

[Campbellk8105]

How we go through Initiative's is the DM has a notebook that has all of our characters names on it. Then we all roll as usual and the DM goes around the room asking for what we got.

The enemies are typically all rolled with 1 initiative roll rather than multiple. Some cases we do split the rolls off of the different creatures and what not in the given encounter. However, if there ever is a BBEG or main boss in the encounter, they always get their own initiative roll.

Writing all the characters names on the one piece of paper saves us a lot of time since there's no flipping back and forth between pieces of paper. Also, if you have the encounters planned on the monsters that are to be encountered, pre-rolling initiatives is definitely a time saver.

[AspectOfNihil]

The group I play in came to the same conclusion a wee while ago.

To help this, we jotted up an Excel sheet, just put in the monsters and players bonuses at the beginning of the night and initiative was rolled and ordered at the click of a button. Sped up things considerably.

Definitely the path I suggest, assuming your DM has access to a laptop.

Otherwise, +1 for the pre-rolling, just take note of the players initiatives and you can have it all set to go.

[Heatwizard]

I've heard of some tables rolling initiative the the beginning of the session and using that roll all day; it feels like there's a good idea to be extracted from that, but it seems awfully nasty to someone who gets a low roll.

[DigoDragon]

Pre-rolling the monster initiatives helps a lot with speeding up the combat. Heck, I keep a list of 20-30 d20 rolls handy and just run down the list for the monster turns. :smallsmile:
Also, one initiative roll lasts the entire encounter. Some groups like to roll each round, but I think just the initial roll is good enough and my players are fine with it as they prefer quick-paced combat.

[Gwendol]

Lumping together groups of monsters is a good strategy, as is having characters and their summons/cohorts/companions acting on the same initiative (though rolling for each character, of course).
The harder part is to keep track of the surprise round (who gets to take a standard action, who is aware, etc) and the first round in combat when those who haven't had a chance to act are still flat-footed.

[Essence_of_War]

I do 2 things to prepare:

1) I pre-roll all monster initiatives (like many others have mentioned)
2) We have slips of paper/slips of index card that we write players names on and then arrange them in initiative order on the dm screen. I fold them over the top of the screen, the names are on both sides, so no one has any excuse not to know who/what's up next.

I've found that doing these helps move the combat along briskly.

I've toyed with the idea of having PCs roll initiative in advance also, but I think this would prob lead to too much (un)intentional metagaming.

[Zaranthan]

My group used the "Vitals on index cards" technique to great success, despite having nine (!) players and however many umpteen goblins the DM was throwing at us all rolling individually. Once a few players dropped out, we switched to group initiative:

-If there's no surprise round, flip a coin to see who goes first.
-All the players go, in whatever order they want.
-All the monsters go, in whatever order the DM finds easy.

We kept the stat cards, though. They're VERY handy for keeping track of temporary effects without trying to write paragraphs in the margins of a character sheet.

[Essence_of_War]

-If there's no surprise round, flip a coin to see who goes first.
-All the players go, in whatever order they want.
-All the monsters go, in whatever order the DM finds easy.


This is a neat, clean, and fast idea, but how does it handle various "initiative boosting" techniques (high dex, imp ini, spells, etc)?

[FMArthur]

I roll initiatives for nonplayer creatures before the session, and I put creatures into groups both for their initiative and also their actions - they are effectively one creature to me with a bunch of different HP partitions and an odd shape on the grid. Not all like creatures are in one group because I find that to be a bit awful for tactical movement, but if part of the battle is 10 warriors and there are others in the fight as well, splitting them into two groups of 5 works well.

[Zaranthan]

This is a neat, clean, and fast idea, but how does it handle various "initiative boosting" techniques (high dex, imp ini, spells, etc)?

It doesn't. It's basically a way to throw out the initiative system without throwing out turns themselves. If I had a player who was particularly enamored with going first, I'd let them flip twice and take either result, but it's not really a big deal with us. After the first round, you're all just taking turns anyway.

[FMArthur]

Initiative is pretty important to rogues and any creature with Sneak Attack. Initiative is vitally important to any creature reliant on Sudden Strike or Iaijutsu Focus. It also lets Power Attackers put everything they have into dealing heavy damage to an unarmored opponent, since those will typically have very low AC while flat-footed if they're relying on Dexterity and AC bonuses that go away while flat-footed.

I think Initiative is worth preserving.

[killem2]

I agree, initative also in a d&d manner of speaking, shows a realism of those who are more agile in battle.

A slow lumbering huge sized creature is not going to unless he gets really lucky start before someone more agile like a halfling rogue.

[Curmudgeon]

Preparation is key. Every player gets an index card on which they put their character name, saving throws, AC, HP, and initiative modifier in ink. One corner is left blank to pencil in the initiative number for the encounter after rolling. These cards get inserted into the proper positions with the cards for all the enemies, which are already in order with their pre-rolled initiative numbers. Then the DM just holds the deck and keeps cycling through the cards. With the order at hand plus a convenient highlight of the most important stats for combat, it's about as streamlined as D&D can get.

[CTrees]

Lots of good ideas (especially grouping and prerolling monsters!) in this thread, and the system definitely gets clunky with several combatants, unless you're using something like combat manager. I've been considering building a magnetic board so I can more graphically show the initiative order (and things like held or readied actions), but that's still in the planning stages.

[killem2]

Lots of good ideas (especially grouping and prerolling monsters!) in this thread, and the system definitely gets clunky with several combatants, unless you're using something like combat manager. I've been considering building a magnetic board so I can more graphically show the initiative order (and things like held or readied actions), but that's still in the planning stages.

I have a spare white board. I could easily do that where they could all see it.

[Mnemnosyne]

As some have suggested: as a DM, roll a whole bunch of initiatives and make a list of the D20 rolls. When an encounter begins, just go down that list from top to bottom, assigning rolls to various monsters.

For the players, roll initiative at the END of an encounter. That initiative will be used for the next encounter. This helps immensely so that the flow and tension isn't interrupted when something happens that requires initiative. Instead of the DM halting his description and saying 'roll for initiative' he simply references the initiative that everyone has pre-rolled, and can narrate right up to the first player's turn where he asks what their actions are.

[LansXero]

As for the cards idea, I always found these (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2739526/D%26D/TGM_Dragon_Green-9.jpg)kinda neat.

[imneuromancer]

Make initiative a DC roll of 10+Opponents' Initiative.

Players either go before or after opponents. After players roll initiatives, DM says, "OK, raise your hand if you beat an X. OK, of those that beat it, who wants to go first?"

The characters that go first usually do a quick negotiation depending on what they want to do (battlefield controllers generally want to go first, but sometimes want to wait on the fighters, etc.) and then do it. They also know they are "on deck" so they generally have their actions ready.

Then the monsters go. Then the people who didn't win initiative go.

I use this a lot in my games, and it makes initiative go really smoothly. Considering characters can just delay for other characters anyhow, it usually doesn't matter who goes first, as long as they beat (or don't beat) the opponents.

Further, in a most instances, initiative only matters for the first round: do you get to go and define the battlefield BEFORE the opponent? After that, unless you roll initiative every round, it is basically they go, you go, they go, you go. Things change up a little when people start delaying or readying actions, but the general idea is the same.

Final note: the Initiative as DC idea gives a SLIGHT advantage to the PCs as they kinda know when the opponents will go in initiative order. I am usually OK with that myself because I have a pretty good idea how to balance encounters and the simplicity of the system is worth it.