Archers itP?

[Deth Muncher]

Hey guys, so I started learning something today which I feel like is something a lot of nerds secretly want to learn, but never do.

That thing is archery.

Right now, it's not proper archery - I'm using real bows, but the arrows are foam tipped (if you're familiar with Dagorhir, that's the group teaching me, which is why the arrows are foamed) and while I might not get the standard "Fire at this target until you learn to aim" kind of thing one might get from standard archery lessons, I AM getting up my reflexes (since they're foamed, people can shoot each other with no problems, and often do) as well as working my arm/back muscles, which is awesome. And even after one day, I could tell my accuracy was going way up - I went from getting nowhere near the guy I was shooting at to pretty much landing it at his feet or right next to him every time.

In a while, I'm going to progress to real arrows and then possibly go hunting with my stepfather, but for the moment, I'm okay just being a dork shooting foam arrows at other nerds. :smalltongue:

Any other archers 'round these parts?

[Vacant]

I've been a few times, but I'm obviously not very good. I target shoot and a friend of mine is an archer, so we'll occasionally combine efforts and go to a shooting range or archery range together. It's usually been a lot of fun.

[Knaight]

I've done some, though I am more of a slinger than an archer.

[WalkingTarget]

Heh, I did Dagorhir back in undergrad. I was more of a Sword n' Board type, though (tall, big reach, handy with the shield - archers hated me :smalltongue:).

I like the idea of marksmanship, but haven't had the real time/opportunity to actually work on it.

There is a family of world-class archers from my tiny hometown, though (Olympic medalist Vic Wunderle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vic_Wunderle) being the best known).

[Knaight]

Heh, I did Dagorhir back in undergrad. I was more of a Sword n' Board type, though (tall, big reach, handy with the shield - archers hated me :smalltongue:).

I was a spear guy, though I have background in non Dagorhir spear combat without things like padding. The Sword n' Board type hated me.

[WalkingTarget]

I was a spear guy, though I have background in non Dagorhir spear combat without things like padding. The Sword n' Board type hated me.

Heh, often came down to having a buddy who would help flank so one of us could get inside the spear's reach - not necessarily anybody involved that had any sort of non-padded combat training of any sort, though. Guys with the big two-handers that could "break" the shields were more annoying.

Back to archery, my best friend was always something of a physical adept. The first day I brought him to a Dagorhir thing he caught two arrows just on reflex (one by grabbing at a shaft as it passed by him rather than the padded head). Archer didn't know what to do about that one.

[Knaight]

Heh, often came down to having a buddy who would help flank so one of us could get inside the spear's reach - not necessarily anybody involved that had any sort of non-padded combat training of any sort, though. Guys with the big two-handers that could "break" the shields were more annoying.
The trick there is to use the person who isn't flanking as a centerpoint to circle around of with the flanker while also moving away. That and to take legs out. As for the shield breakers, those are very, very fun to fight with a spear. You almost certainly have wieldiness as an advantage, and probably reach on top of that.

[Feytalist]

I've done bow hunting. It's quite a rush. We use sport bows mostly, those compound ones with the pulleys and sights and arrow slots and everything, simply because they're easier to use in the heat of the moment.

I've had some practice with a traditional wood-and-gut bow as well. Not near as well enough to actually hunt, though. They're fiendishly difficult to control.

Actually, with bow hunting, the big issue is not shooting the bow accurately, it's getting close enough for a clean shot.

[Deth Muncher]

Re: Knaight and WalkingTarget - I generally tend towards Dagger Heroism: that is to say, go in with a dagger, and that's it. MAYBE a buckler. Grabbing peoples' weapon arms is fun and profitable!

But our unit is so lacking in archers, the one guy who's really good at it has started up a group at my college so that he can not only train Dag-folks at arching, but also just random other people. Hence why it's not just Dag arrows, but eventually also real ones - it's just that finding a safe place to train with real arrows is hard in a city.

Actually, here's a question for you guys, and maybe you'll be able to answer it and maybe you won't - I can't seem to get the hang of quickly nocking arrows. I just stand there going "Hurr durr...I make arrow on string now!" and it takes me like 30 seconds to a minute to actually get the arrow on the string and not falling off. Any tips?

[Castaras]

I do a little bit of archery. Not very good at it.

The archery I do, however, is with arrows with big plastic bits on the end, because if I have a bow I'm firing into combat with people. Which is always fun. :smallbiggrin: More fun is when you have mixed combat, and most people are melee, and you're an archer... so they gang up on you, thinking you'd be an easy target... and then you drop your bow and draw your sword on them. :smallbiggrin: A lot of people are like "Eeep, what do I do now!!" instead of "Sword! Change tactics!".

[Adlan]

I'm a stick and string traditional archer and bowhunter.

[Spiryt]

Actually, here's a question for you guys, and maybe you'll be able to answer it and maybe you won't - I can't seem to get the hang of quickly nocking arrows. I just stand there going "Hurr durr...I make arrow on string now!" and it takes me like 30 seconds to a minute to actually get the arrow on the string and not falling off. Any tips?

Match your bow/arrows better, get better arrows etc.?

I know no details, obviously, but I can't really see any other reason for nocking arrows to take that long, other than the nock being faulty and/or not , matching the string properly.

Maybe nock is not deep enough, or something.

[Anuan]

The trick there is to use the person who isn't flanking as a centerpoint to circle around of with the flanker while also moving away. That and to take legs out. As for the shield breakers, those are very, very fun to fight with a spear. You almost certainly have wieldiness as an advantage, and probably reach on top of that.

Taking note of this in case I start using a spear instead of a sword in my reenactment group...

[Tyndmyr]

Hey guys, so I started learning something today which I feel like is something a lot of nerds secretly want to learn, but never do.

That thing is archery.

Right now, it's not proper archery - I'm using real bows, but the arrows are foam tipped (if you're familiar with Dagorhir, that's the group teaching me, which is why the arrows are foamed) and while I might not get the standard "Fire at this target until you learn to aim" kind of thing one might get from standard archery lessons, I AM getting up my reflexes (since they're foamed, people can shoot each other with no problems, and often do) as well as working my arm/back muscles, which is awesome. And even after one day, I could tell my accuracy was going way up - I went from getting nowhere near the guy I was shooting at to pretty much landing it at his feet or right next to him every time.

In a while, I'm going to progress to real arrows and then possibly go hunting with my stepfather, but for the moment, I'm okay just being a dork shooting foam arrows at other nerds. :smalltongue:

Any other archers 'round these parts?

Ah, I'm a Dag archer(Guard) and reasonably good at it, but I confess I haven't really been out much this year due to injury. What unit you with?

As for nocking time, I suggest making sure first that the nocks fit smoothly on the string. They should neither take a great deal of force to squash on, nor should they freely slide around/off the string. If this is not the case, look into replacing your nocks. It's pretty easy, really.

If thats not the prob, then you likely just need practice nocking. The good news is, you can practice drawing and nocking a bow at home, often while watching tv or whatever. It should get to the point where it's reflex, and you're not looking at arrow or string at all.

Depending on where in Virginia you are, you might also want to look into popping over on Sundays to Guard practice. They're visitor friendly, and the unit has a LOT of archers. I'd guess about half the members have a bow and are at least decently competent with it.


Back to archery, my best friend was always something of a physical adept. The first day I brought him to a Dagorhir thing he caught two arrows just on reflex (one by grabbing at a shaft as it passed by him rather than the padded head). Archer didn't know what to do about that one.

Technically, this results in your buddy losing his arm. Arrow catching is not permitted because, for safety reasons, Dag arrows are a LOT easier to catch than real life ones are. The same is true for deflecting them with weapons, etc. Shields, helmets, etc are the way to go for legally stopping arrows.

[valadil]

I've done a hell of a lot of target archery. It was pretty much my sport in high school. There was no archery club when I got to college, so I started one. Haven't done much shooting since graduating though. I outgrew my bow and just haven't felt like investing in another one.

[WalkingTarget]

Technically, this results in your buddy losing his arm. Arrow catching is not permitted because, for safety reasons, Dag arrows are a LOT easier to catch than real life ones are. The same is true for deflecting them with weapons, etc. Shields, helmets, etc are the way to go for legally stopping arrows.

Yeah, I forget what the judge on the field ruled but that wouldn't surprise me. It's not like it was a strategy, he just did it on instinct (he'd been briefed on the "don't bat at them with weapons" thing - in our group at the time you got ruled "dead" for that one).

[Arminius]

There is a pretty active archery club at my school, and I've gone for the last three semesters. It is run under the auspices of the SCA. You don't have to be in the SCA to join and shoot, but all the marshals are in the SCA, and about half the regulars are also members. We have the use of a room in one of the campus gyms, and we shoot just regular field points. The SCA also has something called combat archery, which sounds a lot like what you are doing with the foam heads. I'm not in the SCA, so I haven't seen this in practice just heard it in passing at the range.

[Brother Oni]

Target archer here with recurve, just started this summer so only on a 36lb draw.

Thinking about getting a longbow and joining the English War Bow society simply because I'm interested in the history (and want to see what a 100+lb draw longbow feels like).

Despite English history with the bow, you're not allowed to hunt with a bow here, so field and target is all you're allowed.

@All the SCA and re-enactment archers: what range is considered 'good' for you? There's an archer in my club who views them rather disparagingly, but I would like opinions from people who actually shoot as SCA/re-enactment archers rather than his biased one.

[Deth Muncher]

What unit you with?


Galatia, out of Richmond.

[Anarion]

I did some Kyudo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABd%C5%8D) for a couple months when I was in Japan. It was amazingly fun, although I'm a weakling so I never fired anything with more than a 25 lbs. pull. I'd kinda like to get back into it actually, but there aren't many places for it in the USA.

How many of the people here actually own their own bow as opposed to shooting at a club or organized event?

[Brother Oni]

I did some Kyudo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABd%C5%8D) for a couple months when I was in Japan. It was amazingly fun, although I'm a weakling so I never fired anything with more than a 25 lbs. pull. I'd kinda like to get back into it actually, but there aren't many places for it in the USA.

How many of the people here actually own their own bow as opposed to shooting at a club or organized event?

Ooo, I've wanted to try one of those Japanese off centre bows. Do you know how they compare to a western longbow or a recurve?

I've got a nice starter SF bow. I considered Hoyt, but I didn't like the grip on the available risers or their proprietary limbs/riser fitting system (the SF one had a standard fitting so I can upgrade to almost any manufacturer's limbs in future rather than being forced to stay with Hoyt).

[Tyndmyr]

I did some Kyudo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABd%C5%8D) for a couple months when I was in Japan. It was amazingly fun, although I'm a weakling so I never fired anything with more than a 25 lbs. pull. I'd kinda like to get back into it actually, but there aren't many places for it in the USA.

How many of the people here actually own their own bow as opposed to shooting at a club or organized event?

I own a number of them. My fav is a custom made black longbow scaled down to about a 25 lb pull to make it dag legal.

On the other side of the spectrum, I made one out of fiberglass fence posts, duct tape and twine. It is the ugliest thing I've ever seen, but it does work. Passed at Rag, even.

I've done some proper range shooting as well, from a fairly young age, but about 45 lbs is the strongest I tend to use frequently.

[Spiryt]

I have 30 pound flatbow that I can't really shoot well, but it's fun, lol.

Can't really remember much details about producer etc. but it's nice bow, even though after my string had snapped, I couldn't really find well matching new one.

[Icewalker]

I did a little bit of sport archery here at college last year, mostly recurve with a bit of compound. I want to do more if I can find the time, as well as learning to make bows (http://poorfolkbows.com/). I need to learn English longbow though...

[THAC0]

I shot a hunting bow three times. Hit the fist-sized hanging target on the third, though I suspect that was mostly luck! I liked it a lot but the last thing I need is another gear and money intensive hobby!

[Dr.Epic]

Well, let me know when you can do this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=132WIdxvgdo)

[Knaight]

Taking note of this in case I start using a spear instead of a sword in my reenactment group...

Also remember that there are two kinds of spears. Spears that can cut and thrust, and low grade cheapo imitation spears.

On poundage, I usually use a 45 pound bow when I do archery. Odds are it would be a lot higher by now if I did more archery and less slinging, but slinging tends to be cheaper and easier to manage logistically.

[Anuan]

Also remember that there are two kinds of spears. Spears that can cut and thrust, and low grade cheapo imitation spears.

On poundage, I usually use a 45 pound bow when I do archery. Odds are it would be a lot higher by now if I did more archery and less slinging, but slinging tends to be cheaper and easier to manage logistically.

And also spears of other forms that were thrust only, from various other periods...:smalltongue: My specific reenactment group doesn't seem to do much spearwork though. I think possibly cause the head of the group doesn't like them much.

[Anarion]

Ooo, I've wanted to try one of those Japanese off centre bows. Do you know how they compare to a western longbow or a recurve?


I think a well-made recurve probably out-ranges a Japanese longbow. The nice thing about firing off center though is that you don't need an arm guard on the arm actually holding the bow (left arm for 99.9% of people). The off-center position that you're firing from causes the bow to kind of angle around the arm actually holding it after you fire. Even the chest protector is optional if you don't mess up and aren't a woman.

[thubby]

what was the point of the asymmetry in those things anyway?

I've goofed around with a bow before, but i could never get the hang of it. great with a rifle, but crap with a bow.

[Brother Oni]

I think a well-made recurve probably out-ranges a Japanese longbow.

A rough rule of thumb that I heard was that a recurve is approximately equivalent to a longbow of twice the poundage.



Even the chest protector is optional if you don't mess up and aren't a woman.

In my experience, a chest protector is more dependent on your shooting style (I've seen women shooting without and men shooting with), although bodyshape does play a factor.


what was the point of the asymmetry in those things anyway?

As I understand it, archery was usually practised by samurai, who were typically mounted. As such, the bow is offset so that you can move the bow over the horse's head more easily and thus shoot from both sides, rather than just one.

[thubby]

As I understand it, archery was usually practised by samurai, who were typically mounted. As such, the bow is offset so that you can move the bow over the horse's head more easily and thus shoot from both sides, rather than just one.

except then you may as well use a shorter bow altogether

[Spiryt]

except then you may as well use a shorter bow altogether

Making good bow that's "shorter altogether" may get very tricky though, and that was probably the reason that they went with really long limb, as inefficient as it may theoretically be.

AFAIR Short, (retro)reflexive bows, made an appearance in Japan at some point, but never really kicked in, because tradition of yumi was strong, dating as long back as 7th century AD.

[Anarion]

except then you may as well use a shorter bow altogether

Right, but if you have one technique that works for both mounted and standing you get to use that same technique no matter what situation you're in, so it's faster to learn.

I also think it could have just been a quirk of independently inventing similar tools. If you were the first person to ever bend a really long stick, I don't think it's obvious how you're supposed to hold it.

[Brother Oni]

except then you may as well use a shorter bow altogether

A shorter bow has to be more distorted to get the same amount of power though, which results in durability and performance issues.

They decided to make a off-centre bow as a solution to this issue (ease of use while mounted while retaining as much power as possible), which worked for them.


Right, but if you have one technique that works for both mounted and standing you get to use that same technique no matter what situation you're in, so it's faster to learn.

It's less the same technique and more the same bow. A decent bow is made specific to the archer, so it makes more sense for a samurai to keep the same bow for mounted and foot use, rather than maintain two separate ones.

As an aside, I'm surprised that recurve bows didn't really take off in Japan after their experiences with the Mongols.

[TheThan]

I’ve done archery as a kid. It was fun, though I’m left handed and therefore need a specialized left handed bow for it. Though I did try a right handed bow once, it worked fairly well.

My uncle used to be a fantastic archer (hunting), I have no idea if he’s kept up his practice. But once he pulled a “Robin Hood”, that is to say, he shot an arrow at his target, then hit the same arrow (in the very back), with it, sending his arrow down the shaft of the other one, fusing the two together. It’s an impressive shot. I wonder if he still has the arrows.

[Bickerstaff]

Good to know that there's some other archers in the Playground!

I have been doing archery for about 4 or 5 years out in the Carnation/Duvall area in Washington as part of a living-history group called Camlann. Being a living-history group (representing the year 1376), we use traditional English longbows and flights that were used at the time.

Does anyone else out here pull an English longbow?

[Adlan]

I used to shoot English warbow, and I've hunted with a Victorian style longbow.

Also:
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5048/image052wa7.th.jpg (http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image052wa7.jpg)

Can you tell what Happend?

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5904/image058ck2.th.jpg (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image058ck2.jpg)

I've had a few in my time.

[AtlanteanTroll]

I use to be an archer, but then I took an arrow to the knee. :smallcool:

[Anuan]

I'll take it you weren't a very good one, then. Tip; shoot up and out, not down :smalltongue:

[AtlanteanTroll]

I'll take it you weren't a very good one, then. Tip; shoot up and out, not down :smalltongue:

:smalltongue:

I only ever did archery in Boy Scouts, and that was at least 6 years ago. I was alright at it though, I guess. I'm better at darts though. :smalltongue:

[Wyntonian]

I've done a fair bit, switching between a 30-ish pound longbow to a 20-pound fiberglass recurve to a little 15-pound compound. I also taught archery at a summer camp, 5-12 or so. Good times, and I've not hurt one yet.

[Grue Bait]

I've done some archery, mostly with the standard 20-25 pound-draw bows my school had. What's this Dagorhir thing you guys were talking about?

[Charity]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7011/6551962283_5549b2eaf9.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7006/6551959525_a7e7187390.jpg

twas a good day

[Knaight]

I've done some archery, mostly with the standard 20-25 pound-draw bows my school had. What's this Dagorhir thing you guys were talking about?

Padded weapon combat, often in large groups.