VtR:Making a Social Engineering Vampire.

[Ravens_cry]

I am likely going to be part of a mixed worlds World of Darkness as a group of assassins/hit squad.
I thought it would be fun to play a gentile old gentleman vampire (only about 150 years old) who focuses mostly on mundane persuasion and subterfuge, using vampiric abilities to augment it. Despite his old fashioned gentleman demeanour, I want him skilled with modern information technology, as well as combat skills because just because you don't like to get blood on your tweed waistcoat doesn't mean you you can't shove their face through a wall in a pinch.
Perhaps a touch archaic with the weapons, carrying around a sword-cane.
Speaking several languages, including dead ones like Latin and Greek would be a nice touch.
I've never made a Vampire before, so what abilities do you suggest, Playground to emulate that idea?

The basic backstory I thought of was he was an older gentleman, Eaton lad, white hair, tall, thin and composed, spying for the Allies in World War 1, when he got turned during a mission and was presumed MIA.
What's happened since is still up in the air.

[Gnaeus]

Post is in wrong forum. Not about 3.X or D20

Sounds very like an Invictus. Probably Ventrue, but could be any clan (Gangrel or Nosferatu seem unlikely).

It sounds like you want either Dominate, Majesty, Auspex, or some combination of those disciplines. For mundane combat, every clan has a physical discipline, just put a couple of points into it. It doesn't sound like you are building a warrior, just someone who can fight if he needs to.

[The Glyphstone]

How much XP do you have to spend? Doing all of that will be close to impossible on a 0XP starting character.

[Ravens_cry]

Damn, I don't know. I am new to World of Darkness, though I have the Core book that explains the system.

[The Glyphstone]

Ask your Storyteller, then. WoD doesn't have levels, so having extra starting XP is like starting above level 1 in D&D.

[TheCountAlucard]

The trick to being a social engineering vampire is to remember that it's all about how clever you can be; Disciplines don't even have to factor into it (though they certainly help).

If you want to do that, though, I'd recommend a dot or two of Majesty; it's a surprisingly-effective tool. The ability to make yourself the most interesting person in the room and have people begging to spill their guts to you can do wonders, paired with a sharp mind. :smallsmile:

[Reluctance]

It might help to take one character sheet and fill out all the attribute/ability dots you want your character to have. Then look at what you actually have to work with and start crossing things off until everything fits.

A word to the wise, though. 150 years of active unlife makes you an active mover and shaker in the city's politics. Fresh from chargen vamps - "first level" in The Glyphstone's words - tend not to fit the bill for this. You'll need to either explain a decent depowering (although a decent stint in torpor tends to do the trick), or explain why you're spending serious time running with newborns.

Which reminds me of one of the cardinal rules for every RPG. Your character sounds neato. Do you have any idea how he fits in with the other characters and the plot? A group of soloists is a great way for a game to become bogged down and fall apart.

[The Glyphstone]

He mentioned a 'mixed' game, which frightens me on a deep and primal level. Vampires do not 'play well' conceptually with any of the other splats because of their sunlight ban, nor do Mages because they're so insanely OP compared to everyone else. Hunters only work well in all-Hunter groups because of their teamwork abilities.

[Ravens_cry]

Maybe I should clarify, around 50 years of been human, 100 years of been a vampire, 40 years in the present city.

[comicshorse]

I am likely going to be part of a mixed worlds World of Darkness as a group of assassins/hit squad.


Who are you working for ?

[The Glyphstone]

Still, 100 years of vampire-hood is a long time. Starting characters (neonates) with 0XP are presumed to be less than a decade old.

[Ravens_cry]

Who are you working for ?
An original member of the Hashashin, who may (?) be a Promethean.

[comicshorse]

An original member of the Hashashin, who may (?) be a Promethean.

Interesting :smallcool:

It would take somebody major to bring members of the different races together but that sounds old and experienced enough

[Reluctance]

Take a quick look over the character generation rules. Specifically page 92 of V:tR. (I don't know what the equivalent page in other books is, but I'm sure it's there.) Look at the XP bonus that experienced characters should be given.

If a millennia old being wants to put together a cadre of assassins, it's silly for him to gather a bunch of supernatural newborns. Just like it's completely pointless to hire first level characters to put a boot up Asmodeus' ass. If the goal is for established supers to work together, the bonus XP should allow you to round out your concept better.

If the name of the game is some nigh-omnipotent being taking an interest in fresh from chargen newbies, don't keep your calendar cleared too far out. These games have a reputation for a reason.

[Cirrylius]

If a millennia old being wants to put together a cadre of assassins, it's silly for him to gather a bunch of supernatural newborns. Just like it's completely pointless to hire first level characters to put a boot up Asmodeus' ass.

If the name of the game is some nigh-omnipotent being taking an interest in fresh from chargen newbies, don't keep your calendar cleared too far out.

That's like saying that getting a plot hook from Elminster is an auto-TPK. Nobody said their TARGETS would be in the same power range as their employer. Sure, it's kind of unrealistic to have that powerful a patron, but I imagine the Storyteller knows better than to faceplant a new coterie (or whatever the mixed equivalent is) by making a story too hard for their experience level.

[The Glyphstone]

A coterie of vampires.
A pack of werewolves.
A cabal of mages.
A motley of changelings.
A krewe of sin-eaters.
A throng of prometheans.
A disaster of cross-splats.

:smallbiggrin:

[Reluctance]

That's like saying that getting a plot hook from Elminster is an auto-TPK. Nobody said their TARGETS would be in the same power range as their employer. Sure, it's kind of unrealistic to have that powerful a patron, but I imagine the Storyteller knows better than to faceplant a new coterie (or whatever the mixed equivalent is) by making a story too hard for their experience level.

I was more thinking that when uberpowerful NPCs show up around low-level PCs, it's not uncommon for the story to involve the GM's pet NPCs doing cool stuff while the PCs watch. It's up there with expecting the PCs to follow the GM's idealized script in the list o classic newbie moves.

I could easily be wrong. Maybe the ST knows what he's doing, maybe he'll have natural talent and not screw the pooch. I'm just saying that it's a warning sign. Proceed, but cautiously.

[Kesnit]

There is a Ventrue bloodline that sounds perfect for you. Kallisti, from the Invictus book. They get Majesty and Dominate (as well as Celerity and a bloodline Discipline that "is the art of social distruction raised to the level of a vampiric Discipline.")

[Ravens_cry]

Maybe, what are the rules of using Out of Clan Disciplines? Not as well or not at all?
Looking at Obfuscate (http://wiki.white-wolf.com/worldofdarkness/index.php?title=Obfuscate) though pumping my mundane Wits and Subterfuge would also help/work.

[comicshorse]

Non Clan disciplines cost more XP and will require somebody to teach you them (though over 150 years its not unreasonable that a Kindred will have found Mentors)

[Ravens_cry]

I'll talk about it with the Storyteller.

[TheCountAlucard]

Obfuscate is pretty awesome. If you have enough points available to pump it to 3, you can do a lot of awesome stuff... though like I said, Disciplines aren't always necessary to solve your problems.

[Selrahc]

I'll talk about it with the Storyteller.

Do you know if you actually have bonus starting XP? Your concept is going to be incredibly difficult to roll into a starting character, so I'm hesitant to give advice on building it, because I'd go about things differently with XP available.

Certainly I think you're probably going to have to drop some stuff out of your concept anyway. As you've described him, the guy is good at literally everything. Before even including any merits or supernatural abilities, you're probably going to have to sink a big chunk of XP into skills to get everything you want.

[Ravens_cry]

OK, we can scratch out modern communications aptitude, as it's Victorian London; telephones,and telegraphs, wired and wireless, been about the extent of electronic communications.
Apparently we are starting about "2nd level" XP value.

[Selrahc]

OK, we can scratch out modern communications aptitude, as it's Victorian London; telephones,and telegraphs, wired and wireless, been about the extent of electronic communications.


Still wanting to be an Elder Vampire? Every 50 years of age requires a point in Blood Potency, so its an easier write up if you're a more recent embrace.


Apparently we are starting about "2nd level" XP value.

Well.. that's just a riddle. WoD doesn't have levels.

Here is a barebones take on the character, before XP.

Spymaster

Mekhet Invictus
Attributes
Physical
Strength 2
Dexterity 2
Stamina 2

Mental
Intelligence 3
Wits 3
Resolve 2

Social
Presence 2
Manipulation 4
Composure 2

Skills
Mental
Academics 2
Investigation 3
Politics 2

Physical
Stealth 2
Weaponry 2

Social
Intimidation 2
Persuasion 3
Socialize 1
Streetwise 1
Subterfuge 4

Disciplines
Majesty 1
Auspex 2

Merits
Allies (British Intelligence Services) 3
Contacts (Eton Chums)
Resources 3


As a character he has good social skills and useful connections. Auspex is able to let him covertly gather information on people quite easily from face to face contact, while Majesty gets him even better at performing socially. Alternatively, swap the character over to a Daeva and focus entirely on Majesty, which would be even more useful. But Daeva doesn't really fit the fairly self restrained character you're talking about. In combat the character isn't much to write home about, but can at least be relevant with a sword or knife.

With more XP, there is a laundry list of things that would be handy. Second dot of Majesty and third and fourth dots of Auspex exponentially increase the characters information gathering. Really the character also wants some more social merits, like a broader range of contacts, a nice Haven and some status in vampire society. Skill and attribute wise... I think you're just about okay. Although given a choice I'd bump several of them up. Particularly if the character is an Elder.

[Ravens_cry]

I'm willing to go only 100 years old total, 50 years a vampire, 50 years a human.
Unfortunately, I can only tell you what the Storyteller told me when they said "2nd level". Like I said ,I am a newbie at this game.
I am not sure about Auspex
Sure, I want some information gathering, but I more or less want to be an infiltrator.
I want him to be the kind of person who says "Ma'am? We're the painters. We got a job saying a tenant wanted some painting done in one of your flats, mind if we take a look around?" and they let us in and hand us the key.
Information Gathering is definitely a goal and part of that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engineering_%28security%29), but so is theft and disguise.

[Kesnit]

Sure, I want some information gathering, but I more or less want to be an infiltrator.
I want him to be the kind of person who says "Ma'am? We're the painters. We got a job saying a tenant wanted some painting done in one of your flats, mind if we take a look around?" and they let us in and hand us the key.
Information Gathering is definitely a goal and part of that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_engineering_%28security%29), but so is theft and disguise.

Dominate and/or Majesty, as well as just plain high social Attributes and Skills, are what you want. Skills and Attributes to talk your way in, Disciplines in case just talking does not work.

Is there a reason why you want 50 years as kine before Embrace? It doesn't really matter, but why not 25/75, or the like?

[Selrahc]

I'm willing to go only 100 years old total, 50 years a vampire, 50 years a human.

Alright. Why?
Obviously you want to be around for a while for some reason. In order to build the character, it would be helpful to know what that reason is.

The entirety of your character concept is based around the character's mortal existence. Adding in 50 years of dead time is not doing much. If you want it to be reflected in the build, you need to say what your character was doing while dead.

It's just, a lot of the stuff from your build. The Eton connections, the allies in british intelligence... it all seems like the kind of stuff that will be made much harder by adding in 50 years of seperation. The character isn't going to be going to his old school chums for information. He isn't going to be going to his former mentor in intelligence. They'll all be long dead. You're burning up all your mortal connections that add back story hooks.. and at the moment not much is really being added.

I'm not necessarily saying change it. Just, try and think of some stuff that defines the character as a vampire. After as much time spent dead as alive, the character would be much more defined by his Kindred existence.

[Ravens_cry]

Because an Older English Gentleman, reserved and dignified, think Ian McKellen in body, is what I want to play. Austere, stiff upper lip type with a very dry sense of humour, kind of like Spock. Sure, he can act, but this is his 'base' persona.
Since, if I understand right, the Kindred, don't age, he needs to be about that old when he gets 'turned'.

[Alejandro]

The Greek economy may be dead, but the language is not. :)

[Ravens_cry]

I mean like Ancient Greek. Modern Greek evolved from it, but teaching that form was still common then, I think.

[Alejandro]

I should have thought of that. And yes, particularly in your time period!

[Selrahc]

Because an Older English Gentleman, reserved and dignified, think Ian McKellen in body, is what I want to play. Austere, stiff upper lip type with a very dry sense of humour, kind of like Spock. Sure, he can act, but this is his 'base' persona.
Since, if I understand right, the Kindred, don't age, he needs to be about that old when he gets 'turned'.

No problem with the character being aged 50 upon his death. It's the big gap between that time and the time you're playing that needs to be accounted for somehow.

Dead languages like greek and latin I'd normally put under the academics skill. Take a specialty.

[Ravens_cry]

Hmm, you're right.Unfortunately, ti is still early days for knowing about this universe aside from "It's Victorian London," who the movers and shakers are.
Maybe the recent change in need for blood potency has made the character leave his comfort zone of draining animals, realizing in his seclusion he has made less connections than he could have?
Despite his apparent calm composure, perhaps he is getting a little desperate.
Immortality is hard.

[Cirrylius]

The character isn't going to be going to his old school chums for information. He isn't going to be going to his former mentor in intelligence. They'll all be long dead. You're burning up all your mortal connections that add back story hooks.. and at the moment not much is really being added.


Eh. There's always their children, if the character was a close enough friend to the family in life.



Maybe the recent change in need for blood potency has made the character leave his comfort zone of draining animals, realizing in his seclusion he has made less connections than he could have?

Heh. Retirement was bad enough; now the horses/sheep aren't even providing a diversion.

On second thought maybe I should have phrased that differently :/

[Ravens_cry]

Heh. Retirement was bad enough; now the horses/sheep aren't even providing a diversion.

On second thought maybe I should have phrased that differently :/
Quite right, old chap, you should be ashamed of yourself.:smallamused:

[Reluctance]

Going fifty years without aging is going to cause problems no matter what. Vampires have to reinvent themselves every so often, and that usually involves avoiding former mortal associates.

I almost want to say to make this guy a badass mundane who only got his fangs 5-10 years ago. Allows him to be highly skilled at mundane things, while still coming into his supernatural powers. Also allowing you to spend XP on mundane skills instead of disciplines without feeling like your character lived in a cave for most of his unlife.

IIRC, "second level" means 35 XP above chargen. There's a chart in most of the books for advanced characters. (Also an option for exchanging morality for XP, if need be.) Remember that you want to prioritize being the face. Try to cover too many roles, you'll end up being subpar at everything.

[The Glyphstone]

If he was using D&D-equivalent terminology, "Second Level" would probably be 10XP, the first 'level'/tier of bonus chargen XP. The WoD rulebook recommends 2-3 XP per session, +1 for 'heroism' and bonus for a story arc's completion, so roughly 3-4 sessions of playtime, enough for a typical D&D character to reach 2nd level from 1st level.