Mindblade Thrower

[Greyfeld85]

So, I was doing a thought exercise on building a gestalt thrower using the Soulknife class.

Then I remembered that the Soulknife class blows.

So, since you literally cannot make this idea work until level 17 (because whatever moron wrote up this class thought it made sense that being able to full attack with thrown weapons was a near-epic ability), is there another way to make my concept work? Preferably without homebrew.

I know there's a mindblade ACF for the Psychic Warrior class, but its uses are even more limited than the Soulknife's.

[Lateral]

Actually, you can make a perfectly viable Psychic Warrior weapon-calling thrower through the Telekinetic Boomerang power from CPsi. It lasts rounds/level, so by the time you get it it'll last you the length of most combats, and as a straight Psychic Warrior you get it soon enough that you'll have it by the time you make your first iterative anyway. It gives one projectile super-returning (that is, returns immediately so you can make multiple attacks with it in a round), and is a swift action.

[Urpriest]

Depending on what you mean by throwing, Soulbow is a decent class that takes a few levels of Soulknife and turns them into a decent ranged damage dealer. Complete Psionic.

[Greyfeld85]

Depending on what you mean by throwing, Soulbow is a decent class that takes a few levels of Soulknife and turns them into a decent ranged damage dealer. Complete Psionic.

I... you...

*Breathes*

I mean throwing in the same way that D&D defines throwing. So, while I appreciate your input, I'm afraid it's not what I'm looking for.

[Greyfeld85]

Actually, you can make a perfectly viable Psychic Warrior weapon-calling thrower through the Telekinetic Boomerang power from CPsi. It lasts rounds/level, so by the time you get it it'll last you the length of most combats, and as a straight Psychic Warrior you get it soon enough that you'll have it by the time you make your first iterative anyway. It gives one projectile super-returning (that is, returns immediately so you can make multiple attacks with it in a round), and is a swift action.

That's actually really interesting. Though, it's not exactly what I'm looking for.

I'm actually looking for something along the lines of creating blades/daggers out of pure energy and throwing them. That's why I originally looked into the Soulknife.

[Urpriest]

I... you...

*Breathes*

I mean throwing in the same way that D&D defines throwing. So, while I appreciate your input, I'm afraid it's not what I'm looking for.

What particular mechanic are you wanting to leverage then? Master Thrower tricks? There may be a way to apply what you're seeking to apply with a simpler base.

[Greyfeld85]

What particular mechanic are you wanting to leverage then? Master Thrower tricks? There may be a way to apply what you're seeking to apply with a simpler base.

Master Thrower was the prestige class I was looking at specifically, yes.

But ultimately, I'm trying to build a concept. So, anything that stays within that concept is fair game.

If you're familiar with Hunter x Hunter, think Hisoka; Dextrous, mobile, psionic, thrower.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I mean throwing in the same way that D&D defines throwing. So, while I appreciate your input, I'm afraid it's not what I'm looking for.

Not sure I see the difference here, unless you're trying to attach it to some other kind of throwing mechanics-- either way, you're creating an imaginary pointy thing and stabbing people with it from a distance.

Damned if I can find it right now, but somewhere there's a feat that allows Soulknives to form their mindblades in a dagger shape and throw as many of those as they wanted in a round. The Pathfinder Soulknife can select it as a bladeskill at 2nd level; you're basically trading in one die size for another 10 feet of range and the ability to make full attacks.

The Zen Archery feat from Complete Warrior and the Focused Offense bladeskill from Psionics Expanded allow a Soulknife to make full attacks with thrown mind daggers using Wisdom for attack and damage.

[Greyfeld85]

Not sure I see the difference here, unless you're trying to attach it to some other kind of throwing mechanics-- either way, you're creating an imaginary pointy thing and stabbing people with it from a distance.

Damned if I can find it right now, but somewhere there's a feat that allows Soulknives to form their mindblades in a dagger shape and throw as many of those as they wanted in a round. The Pathfinder Soulknife can select it as a bladeskill at 2nd level; you're basically trading in one die size for another 10 feet of range and the ability to make full attacks.

The Zen Archery feat from Complete Warrior and the Focused Offense bladeskill from Psionics Expanded allow a Soulknife to make full attacks with thrown mind daggers using Wisdom for attack and damage.

Because throwing and archery are two completely different things? I'm not looking to optimize, I'm looking to fill out a concept.

While Zen Archery is nice, the bladeskill won't work. I asked for 3.5 material, not PF material. I realize that most of the PF material is compatible with the 3.5 ruleset, but I would prefer anything I build to adhere strictly to 3.5.

[Big Fau]

I'm not looking to optimize, I'm looking to fill out a concept.

Optimization means using the mechanics of the system to make your concept work as efficiently as possible with as few resources as possible.


And Soulbow is exactly what you are looking for. Read the text closely.

[Weezer]

Because throwing and archery are two completely different things? I'm not looking to optimize, I'm looking to fill out a concept.

While Zen Archery is nice, the bladeskill won't work. I asked for 3.5 material, not PF material. I realize that most of the PF material is compatible with the 3.5 ruleset, but I would prefer anything I build to adhere strictly to 3.5.

It's not that hard to make "produce dazzling shafts of deadly grace that she can project with all the force of a composite longbow" (quote from Soulbow description) into "produce dazzling blades of deadly grace that she can project with all the force of a thrown dagger". This only requires a minimum of refluffing to fit your concept exactly in a way that nothing else in 3.5 does with any efficacy.

[Greyfeld85]

Optimization means using the mechanics of the system to make your concept work as efficiently as possible with as few resources as possible.


And Soulbow is exactly what you are looking for. Read the text closely.

It creates arrows and a bow, not throwing weapons. I'm not sure what I've supposedly missed.

[Big Fau]

It creates arrows and a bow, not throwing weapons. I'm not sure what I've supposedly missed.


It does not create a bow, it shoots the arrow from the palm of your hand.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dx0403ex_96349.jpg


See?

[Psyren]

1st: Use the much, much better Pathfinder version (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife) of the Soulknife.

2nd: At level 2 (or whenever you'd like to make throwing become your main schtick), take the Mind Daggers bladeskill. You can form these as a free action, meaning you can keep creating them at any time - even during a full-attack.


Alternatively: If your DM doesn't allow Pathfinder material, simply point him to Dragon magazine #341, specifically the "Mind Daggers" feat, though you have to wait until later (6th level) to take that one and it's much, much weaker.

[Greyfeld85]

It does not create a bow, it shoots the arrow from the palm of your hand.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dx0403ex_96349.jpg


See?

I apologize, you're absolutely correct.

But that doesn't change the fact that they're still arrows, and so can't be used with Master Thrower skill tricks. They also can't be used with specific feats and class features (Targeteer ACF, Power Throw feat, Two-Weapon Fighting feat, etc etc).

[Psyren]

Did you read my post, OP? Mind Daggers feat from Dragon, or better yet simply getting the PF Soulknife imported (as the gods intended?)

Either option will have you flinging iteratives long before 17.

[Greyfeld85]

Did you read my post, OP? Mind Daggers feat from Dragon, or better yet simply getting the PF Soulknife imported (as the gods intended?)

Either option will have you flinging iteratives long before 17.

Yeah, I did. I was hoping there would be an option strictly in 3.5, but it's looking more and more like the build is going to require PF.

[Psyren]

Yeah, I did. I was hoping there would be an option strictly in 3.5, but it's looking more and more like the build is going to require PF.

There is. Dragon Magazine is 3.5, not PF.

I mean, using the WotC Soulknife is only slightly less painful than peeling your fingernails off, but you at least have the option.

[Greyfeld85]

There is. Dragon Magazine is 3.5, not PF.

I mean, using the WotC Soulknife is only slightly less painful than peeling your fingernails off, but you at least have the option.

Ew... I just read it, and that feat is horrible. "Blow a feat so you can attack from range like an archer. But it gets better! Every time you throw another weapon, your damage and attack bonus decreases by 1; and it's cumulative!"

Blech.

[Fax Celestis]

You could use the Pathfinder soulknife (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife), and take the Mind Daggers blade skill. This lets you do your mindblade throwing thing from as early as level 2.

[Weezer]

Ew... I just read it, and that feat is horrible. "Blow a feat so you can attack from range like an archer. But it gets better! Every time you throw another weapon, your damage and attack bonus decreases by 1; and it's cumulative!"

Blech.

Perhaps as another option try to convince your DM to change Soulbow to Soulthrower and replace the bow with a 10ft throwing attack. It would make the class noticeably less powerful so there won't be any problems on that point. Sorry to keep driving home the Soulbow, but it is the only way to make this character viable in any way at all.

@Fax

That was already suggested and turned down, trying to avoid PF.

[Psyren]

Ew... I just read it, and that feat is horrible. "Blow a feat so you can attack from range like an archer. But it gets better! Every time you throw another weapon, your damage and attack bonus decreases by 1; and it's cumulative!"

Blech.

Look, your options are:

1) Crap feat
2) Homebrew
3) Pathfinder Soulknife
4) Wait 'till 17
5) Shoot instead of throw

This is unfortunately the world we live in. (Or fortunately, if you like Pathfinder.)

[Kantolin]

Can something be done with an incarnate's incarnum weapon?

Probably requiring bloodstorm blade? That may have the appropriate feel to it.

[Person_Man]

I know that this isn't your preference, but you really should take a look at the dozens (if not hundreds) of different (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156441) fixes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92407) out there. There's nothing special or more balanced or more legitimate about something because it's written in a book and not your computer screen.

On the bizarre end, I think Kantolin is correct that you could use Bloodstorm Blade to throw your Mindblade or an Incarnate Weapon or a Flame Blade or Spectral Weapon and maybe a Thunder Lance or some similar energy blade created with a wand or magic.

[Greyfeld85]

I know that this isn't your preference, but you really should take a look at the dozens (if not hundreds) of different (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156441) fixes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92407) out there. There's nothing special or more balanced or more legitimate about something because it's written in a book and not your computer screen.

It's not a matter of my preference, but most GMs I deal with avoid homebrew like the plague.

Anyway, I appreciate the suggestions everybody's put forth, you've all been very helpful.

[Big Fau]

The only other option I can think of is the Gauntlet of Infinite Blades in the MiC. It doesn't scale very well, but a light refluff can turn the daggers it produces into energy (since they disappear quickly).

[Tetsubo 57]

Have you looked at the Pathfinder compatible book, Psionics Unleashed? It might have things you can use.

[CTrees]

I was going to make a joke invoking the slowpoke pokemon meme, but instead...

Seriously dude, just ask if you can use the Pathfinder Soulknife. It's compatible with 3.5 and is by far the best option. Your other options have been listed , and they're terrible (because the 3.5 Soulknife is terrible).