[PF] Do you figure wagons are covered or not?

[Ronin Roukyou]

So, yeah, that's pretty much the question. The light, medium, and heavy wagons addressed on pages 183-184 of Ultimate Combat does not specifically mention whether or not it is a covered or open wagon. And I'm mostly curious what others think.

My group and I are about to begin a new campaign. In said campaign, my character uses a horse drawn cart, or in this case more specifically a wagon, to transport the large amount of goods that I have. Legitimately, despite the amount of things I am carrying they don't exceed my capacity. but I never liked the idea of ignoring how awkward it would be to carry 3 barrels of such and such plus a backpack and all the other adventuring gear simply with the argument of "well it doesn't exceed my carrying capacity".

One might ask why it matters if it's covered or not. The reason I initially was concerned was to protect my goods from rain and other weather issues, but that changed when one of my fellow players decided to try and play a vampire, a vampire seeking a cure no less. So, now in order to aid in our mutual travel she wants to keep her coffin in my wagon, but she posses the question of whether or not the wagon is covered to protect her from sunlight should accidental opening occur.

So, because it isn't mentioned specifically I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on the subject, and whether or not, outside of this very specific situation, it really should matter, I suppose.

[Alefiend]

I don't have that book, but I'd say the wagons are most likely not covered by default. I have two reasons to believe this.

1. Linguistic: When we say wagon, there is no assumption of a cover; that's why we make the distinction with covered wagon rather than open wagon.

2. Economic: Why sell a covered wagon when you can sell somebody a wagon and then have them purchase the cover as an upgrade?

It should be a simple matter to buy or rig materials to make a canopy of some sort though. Use a tent or a tarpaulin and you should be fine; no reason to get too fancy.

[Flickerdart]

Isn't an uncovered wagon just a cart?

[Ronin Roukyou]

Isn't an uncovered wagon just a cart?I believe the assumption is that the cart is a two-wheeled vehicle and the wagon is four-wheeled.

[CTrees]

Carts are smaller than wagons. Per Pathfinder rules, that is.

Honestly I don't see an issue with being able to specify, at time of purchase, if you're buying a covered or uncovered wagon. *shrug* However... as shown on the vehicles page of the SRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/vehicles), Paizo has published more specific rules for different forms of wagon, and specifies a covered wagon separately from the standard wagon. Thus, I would have to assume the default is uncovered, even though it's looking towards another of Pathfinder's odd, little, unsupported subsystems.

[MukkTB]

Even if wagons were uncovered and there were no rules for covering them why not just haggle with the DM a little bit to buy a covered wagon? Why not just build a cover yourself?

No covered wagon would be a problem in a videogame where you couldn't just spend a couple seconds talking about covering the wagon because the code didn't cover that possibility.

[Ronin Roukyou]

Carts are smaller than wagons. Per Pathfinder rules, that is.

Honestly I don't see an issue with being able to specify, at time of purchase, if you're buying a covered or uncovered wagon. *shrug* However... as shown on the vehicles page of the SRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/vehicles), Paizo has published more specific rules for different forms of wagon, and specifies a covered wagon separately from the standard wagon. Thus, I would have to assume the default is uncovered, even though it's looking towards another of Pathfinder's odd, little, unsupported subsystems.
I assume you mean, the sidebar Caravan Wagon Statistics from Jade Regent Player's Guide? I have that player's guide, though I never really read through it too extensively. The caravan rules provided add a lot of complexity to the basic concept of hauling a wagon, though the prices and info listed are likely usable. My only issue is that it mentions that the price listed includes the horses required to pull it, however, it does not specify what kind, or whether they are war trained.

Either way, good find. Never thought to check the Jade Regent Player's Guide. Thanks.

[Fouredged Sword]

In many designs a wagon cover is simply a oiled canvas pulled over a light wooden frame over the wagon bed. I would automatically assume that any wagon the players purchase came with the cover because having a non covered wagon wasn't very useful for most people due to the fact that everything would get wet the first trip through the rain.

[Ronin Roukyou]

Even if wagons were uncovered and there were no rules for covering them why not just haggle with the DM a little bit to buy a covered wagon? Why not just build a cover yourself?

No covered wagon would be a problem in a videogame where you couldn't just spend a couple seconds talking about covering the wagon because the code didn't cover that possibility.
I was mostly just curious what others opinions were. This will be the likely conclusion that we come to, but for now I was mostly sating my curiosity about other's opinions of the matter, with a chance that perhaps some kinda of answer may appear.

[CTrees]

The Jade Regent Player's Guide was exactly what I was referring to. As to the horses, it's reasonable to assume the horses pulling a wagon full of trade goods are bog standard horses - subtraction should suffice to determine pricing.

[jackattack]

Having read the Jade Regent sidebar on the d20pfsrd, I choose to ignore it.

I've always assumed that wagons are four wheels, two axles, a flatbed with low sides, and a bench seat up front for a driver and one or two passengers.

For a cloth cover, I add the cost of a tent.
For wood walls and a roof, I combine the cost of a carriage and a wagon.

-----

As for horses, I decided one day that a light wagon can be pulled comfortably by one horse (or equivalent), a medium wagon by two, and a heavy wagon by four.

[Coidzor]

If it's uncovered when you buy it, it should be relatively simple to get a covering.

We specify at time of purchase and generally assume in lack of specification that it's an open wagon with relatively high walls.

[Yora]

Wagon

http://www.kutschen-fahrsport.de/wb_user/21/shop_object/gebr._Training/DSC_0079.JPG

Cart

http://www.aitc.sk.ca/saskschools/photos/cart3.jpg

[Jack of Trades]

Unless there is a separate price for covered wagons versus uncovered wagons, I would assume all wagons can be covered.

However, whether a covered wagon actually has the cover on would be dependent on circumstances and location.

Circumstances: Looks like rain... Or I don't want anyone to see what I am transporting (eg. riches or illegal goods).

Location: Inside a city, most people would not keep a wagon covered as the transportation time is short and it would hinder loading an unloading.

Outside a city, when travelling long distances over an extended time, you are likely to always have the wagon covered. See circumstance example above.