(PF) False Casting Feat: Or how to fake being a wizard

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

I just noticed this feat in the Inner Sea Magic Book, pg 10:

False Casting
Pre-reqs: Magical Aptitude, Bluff 1, Sleight of Hand 1

Balh blah Blah Blah, you can trick people into thinking using a magic item or SLA is you casting a genuine arcane spell, blah blah blah, no spellcraft ranks and they will never know, even if they DO have spellcraft ranks, they need to actively make a skill check vs. your bluff check. If they don't pass, they also think you are casting the spell normally. You can make spell trigger items (wands, rings, etc.) look merely to be the focus for the spell, not the item casting the spell.

Basically, with some Bluff optimization, you can trick ANYONE (even trained wizards) into thinking you are a genuine spellcaster. whipping out a wand or scroll is nothing, because you can make them think you're using it as a focus or an Arcane Bond or something, not that you are using UMD.

I have a feeling that a Rogue 1/wizard 1/Rogue X could have HUGE amounts of fun with this, and some judicious use of Bluff.

Please... Suggest to me awesome things to do with this, some wonderful ways to take advantage of this, and some beautiful ways to pull it off. This might be one of my new favorite feats. I can't wait to trick a high level wizard into thinking I'm a wizard too.

[Ravens_cry]

Heh, that looks fun and flavourful. I've wanted to make a rogue who pretends to be a holy person to gain peoples trust. This makes that so much easier.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Yes, very much funs to be had. Rogue is indeed the obvious choice for this: UMD as a class skill, plenty of points to put into it... Im thinking a level of wizard would be even more convincing with it though. as soon as someone is onto you casually cast an actual, low level spell with them right there.

I read it, and it really wants me to make a rogue who uses his "magical" talents quite publicly to gain a sort of celebrity status. He's a complete fraud, but he gets invited to speak at universities of magic, is invited on adventures, and writes some books that feature his travels and exploits of magic. (some true, most not.)

This has GOT to be my next character. Just need to bring all the pieces together so I can pull it off properly...

[Waker]

Rogue is good, but so are Factotum and Spellthief. Both of them even have a bit of spellcasting ability which negates the need for the wizard dip. The Factotum in particular would make an excellent con-man since they can emulate arcane spells and mimic the divine healing with their Piety ability at lvl 5.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Rogue is good, but so are Factotum and Spellthief. Both of them even have a bit of spellcasting ability which negates the need for the wizard dip. The Factotum in particular would make an excellent con-man since they can emulate arcane spells and mimic the divine healing with their Piety ability at lvl 5.


Except... Pathfinder. hence the (PF). Not 3.P. Hence no spellthief or factotum. thanks for the attempt though!

[Mantarni]

Wow, where is that one thread where the guy was trying to make the most nonmagical barbarian ever who was totally convinced, despite all evidence to the contrary, that he was a wizard? Because this feat would be great for that.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Wow, where is that one thread where the guy was trying to make the most nonmagical barbarian ever who was totally convinced, despite all evidence to the contrary, that he was a wizard? Because this feat would be great for that.

That is actually precisely what I first thought of. However, I feel a rogue would do a better job of it: more skill points, bluff as a class skill, (in PF) access to alternate favored class bonuses, various archetypes, and several rogue talents that make bluffing easier, allow re rolls on bluff checks, or give flat bonuses to bluff.

[Ravens_cry]

If you have access to traits, Bluff is pretty easy to get as a class skill with Fast-Talker.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

If you have access to traits, Bluff is pretty easy to get as a class skill with Fast-Talker.

Very true. its probably just me, but I am envisioning a rogue. In any case, the class chassis is irrelevant. Any class could pull it off via traits and feats.

Point is... Does anyone have any fantastic ways to pull this off? Any sweet suggestions to make this any more fun?

Thanks for all the comments! Keep 'em coming!

[Belril Duskwalk]

The Minor Magic and Major Magic Rogue talents would be helpful, if only for a few ways to add some inherent spell like abilities. Honeyed Words Rogue talent can be used to roll two bluff checks and take the better once or more per day.

Incidentally, now I'm in love with this concept.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

The Minor Magic and Major Magic Rogue talents would be helpful, if only for a few ways to add some inherent spell like abilities. Honeyed Words Rogue talent can be used to roll two bluff checks and take the better once or more per day.

Incidentally, now I'm in love with this concept.

Very valid point, minor and major magic talents would be a decent way to enforce the belief of your magical ability, without wasting a wand charge. I do still feel a single wizard level would be superior though, and would be an actual spell, to further cement in the mind of viewers that you are indeed, a real mage.

Honeyed words, 100%. Also, probably the Spy archetype. kinda hard to mesh the two together though... a spy and a fraud... hm....

As for being in love with the concept... yes, I agree, again 100%. a great role-playing idea, and a feat that pulls it off mechanically. IF I ever do a PFS character, it will be this guy. Too much fun to be had, both in role-playing and in combat. :smallbiggrin:

[deuxhero]

There's actually a Dragon Prc focused on fakeing spellcasting ability. There was a handbook for it on BG.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

There's actually a Dragon Prc focused on fakeing spellcasting ability. There was a handbook for it on BG.

Dragon PrC? what is that? Like, Dragon magazine or something? If so, once again... Pathfinder. (PF). I can't find anything similar in any PF database.

[deuxhero]

I know, I'm just pointing it out

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

the lovely thing about this feat is that PFS play tops out at level 12. Even a straight wizard will have, at best, level 6 spells. wands can go up to 4th level spells, scrolls and other items, wahtever level... point is, with a bit of cash and a good bluff, it would be quite easy to trick a PFS wizard into thinking that you are of equal level...and capable in combat, AND with skill points.

Any advice on how to max out bluff for this? so far....


Skill Focus: Bluff (free via half elf)
various traits (free for all)
Viper Familiar (if you take the wizard dip)
Rogue: Spy archetype (doesn't mesh flavor wise, IMO)


Any ideas? thanks in advance!

[OracleofSilence]

I know it is a horrible feat, but take Run.

Just so you can make Rincewind jokes when you inevitably fail...

Huh. Now i really want to stat him out...

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

I know it is a horrible feat, but take Run.

Just so you can make Rincewind jokes when you inevitably fail...

Huh. Now i really want to stat him out...

a.) I would not "inevitably" fail. one level of wizard assures my automatic success using magic devices, and no one observing me would know my UMD is anything other than me casting a spell... unless they specifically CHOOSE to roll a spellcraft check (assuming they even have ranks). And, if they do that, it is still against my Bluff check... which will undoubtedly be higher, do to ease of optimization.

b.) I was hoping for a character more competent than Rincewind. Part of achieving that goal will be accomplished by NOT taking Run as a feat. :smallwink:

[Fax Celestis]

Please... Suggest to me awesome things to do with this, some wonderful ways to take advantage of this, and some beautiful ways to pull it off. This might be one of my new favorite feats. I can't wait to trick a high level wizard into thinking I'm a wizard too.

Be a d'hin'ni (from Dragon #350? I think?) and have prestidigitation as a spell-like ability usable at will. It'll help you back up your claims to spellcastery.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Be a d'hin'ni (from Dragon #350? I think?) and have prestidigitation as a spell-like ability usable at will. It'll help you back up your claims to spellcastery.

Pathfinder... Pathfinder... Pathfinder... Pathfinder... Pathfinder... Pathfinder... Pathfinder... Pathfinder... Pathfinder... Pathfinder... Pathfinder... Pathfinder...

Not 3.x, not 3.P... Pathfinder... Possibly for PFS play....

[Fax Celestis]

Well, then take a 1-level dip of any class that gets prestidigitation as a cantrip. It's the most useful cantrip ever.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Well, then take a 1-level dip of any class that gets prestidigitation as a cantrip. It's the most useful cantrip ever.

Cool... I was planning a dip into wizard. soon as someone does, somehow, figure out theres something up with your "spellcasting" toss out a casual cantrip or 1st level spell to throw them off your scent. Plus, auto-success on UMD is worth a level dip.

I'll remember the Prestidigitation cantrip though for sure, thanks!

[panaikhan]

Can you use third-party PF stuff?
The somewhat-strange translation of Artificer in Tome of Secrets might suit better than a level in wizard.

[Human Paragon 3]

There's a monk archetype that gets a ton of SLAs. I believe they have bluff as a class skill, too.

The enemy thinks you're a wizard and targets you thusly, but you shrug it off and then pound their face in. Inside their own anti-magic field.:smallbiggrin:

[Psyren]

This works even better for psionic classes. Suppress your displays and chant gibberish while waving a twig around, and suddenly they think you're Dumbledore.

[Telonius]

Did they ever port Warlock over to PF? Because this would be awesome for a 3.5 Warlock.

Anyway, you absolutely have to have some fun with a fake spellbook. "Why yes, Mr. Wizard, I would absolutely let you rent out my powerful spellbook, which has a magical aura and everything, for the standard amount of gp per day." Later: "What? What do you mean you couldn't cast the spell once you memorized it. Here, give me the book, and I'll show you.... There, now you try! ... Ah, how sad, perhaps if you become a more powerful mage you'll be able to comprehend the spell. Here, I'll even give you half the gp back as a show of good faith."

[Person_Man]

Dragon PrC? what is that? Like, Dragon magazine or something? If so, once again... Pathfinder. (PF). I can't find anything similar in any PF database.

Paizo was responsible for publishing Dragon Magazine and a variety of other 3.X materials, and much of it was written by the same authors (Jason Bulmahn in particular was the managing editor of Dragon and lead designer of Pathfinder, and was also a major contributor to Dungeonscape and other 3.5 books). And Pathfinder is specifically intended to be backward compatible with 3.5 D&D. So it's only an issue if your DM specifically limits you to a specific set of recently published books. If that's the case then I apologize - but most Playgrounders have a mix of 3.X/PF/homebrew gaming experience, so you can't really blame us for posting what we know.

[Novawurmson]

Why Wizard over Sorcerer if you're only doing a one-level dip and are going to be CHA-focused? Rakshasa Bloodline (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/rakshasa-bloodline) would give you a nice bonus on bluff checks a few times a day.

[Human Paragon 3]

My only question is why fake being a wizard when you can just BE a wizard?

[Psyren]

My only question is why fake being a wizard when you can just BE a wizard?

Because then your enemies make the mistake of tying your colossal arcane prowess to a book.

Or in the case of a Qingjong Monk, thinking that you're a frail bookworm until your dislocate their shoulders with your index finger.

Or in the case of a psion, thinking that tying you up and gagging you will have some sort of impact on your abilities.

[Person_Man]

Because then your enemies make the mistake of tying your colossal arcane prowess to a book.

Or in the case of a Qingjong Monk, thinking that you're a frail bookworm until your dislocate their shoulders with your index finger.

Or in the case of a psion, thinking that tying you up and gagging you will have some sort of impact on your abilities.

All of this is true, fluffy, and makes for good story telling. I could definitely see it as part of an BBEG's build.

But in general, your enemy's expectations about your class or build are fairly meaningless, because most monsters and NPCs only have a limited number of attacks available to them. Even fairly sophisticated enemy's are likely to use abilities which apply to a wide variety of targets (ie, a Summoned monster works equally well against casters and non-casters) insted of attacks which apply narrowly to a situation (Sundering your meaningless spell component pouch, when they should have Sundered your Wand).

[Psyren]

All of this is true, fluffy, and makes for good story telling. I could definitely see it as part of an BBEG's build.

But in general, your enemy's expectations about your class or build are fairly meaningless, because most monsters and NPCs only have a limited number of attacks available to them. Even fairly sophisticated enemy's are likely to use abilities which apply to a wide variety of targets (ie, a Summoned monster works equally well against casters and non-casters) insted of attacks which apply narrowly to a situation (Sundering your meaningless spell component pouch, when they should have Sundered your Wand).

I agree - it's usefulness depends a little too much on the DM's willingness to play along, and if he is you shouldn't need a feat to run this kind of con anyway. At the very least, a feat that grants this ability should give you more; this seems more like a skill trick, except it's pretty useless if you can only do it 1/encounter.

It's basically Spell Thematics 2.0 tbh.

[Darkomn]

Too bad there isn't a way to do this with no magic what-so-every. I mean its great to be able to pretend to be magic while using a magic wand but it would be even better if you could do it with just slight of hand and mundane props.

[Psyren]

Too bad there isn't a way to do this with no magic what-so-every. I mean its great to be able to pretend to be magic while using a magic wand but it would be even better if you could do it with just slight of hand and mundane props.

Wouldn't the lack of... well, magic... kind of shoot that in the foot? It's not like you can trick someone into thinking you healed them if they're still bleeding. But you can certainly trick someone into thinking you're a divine healer while stuffing a wand of cure X up your sleeve.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Paizo was responsible for publishing Dragon Magazine and a variety of other 3.X materials, and much of it was written by the same authors (Jason Bulmahn in particular was the managing editor of Dragon and lead designer of Pathfinder, and was also a major contributor to Dungeonscape and other 3.5 books). And Pathfinder is specifically intended to be backward compatible with 3.5 D&D. So it's only an issue if your DM specifically limits you to a specific set of recently published books. If that's the case then I apologize - but most Playgrounders have a mix of 3.X/PF/homebrew gaming experience, so you can't really blame us for posting what we know.

I do understand that, but:
a.) my gaming group does increasingly use a "PF Pure" standard.

b.) Pathfinder Society play (which this character may be used for) is PF Pure, with strict rules regarding that.

[Ravens_cry]

It's actually PF Pure+, some items in Pathfinder, published by Paizo, are not allowed in PS play, like the hide shirt, a chain shirt a druid can wear.

[Skelengar]

Wouldn't the lack of... well, magic... kind of shoot that in the foot? It's not like you can trick someone into thinking you healed them if they're still bleeding. But you can certainly trick someone into thinking you're a divine healer while stuffing a wand of cure X up your sleeve.

The PrC mentioned earlier in the thread does exactly that. It's called the Charlatan. At first level, you can mimic Burning Hands and similar spells using pyrotechnics, and at high level spells, you can indeed trick people into thinking you healed them (not cure light wounds, but remove curse and remove disease. You can also fake mind affecting spells and counterspells with a bluff check.


Here's a link to the handbook for those who aren't playing PF Pure. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6543.0)

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

I agree - it's usefulness depends a little too much on the DM's willingness to play along, and if he is you shouldn't need a feat to run this kind of con anyway. At the very least, a feat that grants this ability should give you more; this seems more like a skill trick, except it's pretty useless if you can only do it 1/encounter.

It's basically Spell Thematics 2.0 tbh.

I agree, but really, its just a role-playing feat. It provides no REAL benefit to combat effectiveness, or out of combat situations...

Though, I can see using that great Bluff skill to be like "yeah, I'm a very powerful wizard, you really don't want to mess with me" to perhaps head off a fight, and the ability to "back up" that claim with some works of "magic".

Plus, it does provide the ability to create that cult of personality, that celebrity status. No one really cares much about an ordinary Rogue, but when everyone thinks he's one of the greatest spellcasters of his age and time... well, thats something.

In a world with magic, people are gonna realize what every optimizer does: Magic is the key to power and versatility. With magic, anything is possible, and if you are good at it, you can have anything... including fame and fortune.

so when your perceptive, shrewd, but otherwise ordinary rogue (which are a dime a dozen in a fantasy world) creates and dons the personality of a powerful, charismatic wizard (NOT common) who acts like a rock-star, your rogue moved up in the social status ladder. He can stay as long as he can maintain his disguise. It comes with many fringe benefits: wealth, fame, connections, the patronage of wealthier people, and many other ample opportunities.

So yes, it does require the DM to play along. But what DM WOULDN'T? Its awesome fluff, SOOO many roleplaying opportunities, its ridiculous. you have a character that acts like a rockstar the majority of the time, but when he's alone, he KNOWS he's nothing more than a fraud. he is plagued by self doubt and insecurities, waiting for the day when the good ride ends. And he milks that good ride for all it is worth. Perhaps he hopes he can achieve a certain amount of immortality through such fame, but always the fear of it all falling apart gnaws at him.

Again, I ask you... what DM WOULDN'T go along with this?:smallamused:

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Why Wizard over Sorcerer if you're only doing a one-level dip and are going to be CHA-focused? Rakshasa Bloodline (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/rakshasa-bloodline) would give you a nice bonus on bluff checks a few times a day.

oh, the build wouldn't necessarily be charisma focused... using 20 point buy, I had 14 INT and 14 CHA... so it I would take wizard, due to spell versatility. yeah, its only a level dip, but it would still be nice to tailor what few spells you have to a given situation.

Also, the wizards spell book (most pages filled with meaningless drivel) lends a bit of credence to the "Im a spellcaster!" thing... especially when you DO have to you use it every day.