Very odd very specific build

[Nabirius]

So I am playing a 3.5 campaign with my friends. At the moment our group needs the following a trap-finder, and a stealthy person (we already have a sorcerer and a druid). I wanted to play a Rouge/ Swordsage/ Teflamar Shadowlord. I am starting level 9, Unearthed Arcana is allowed, I am a human, my stats are (18,18, 16, 14, 13, 13). I was considering a dual-wield build in order to drop a large number of enemies with sneak attack, but it looked like I would need a 2 level dip in fighter to get all the feats, but there may be better ways to use those levels.

Also 45000 starting gold, if there are any items that seem necessary. Anyway its a mess at the moment and need some help.

[Hirax]

Rogue3/swordsage2/assassin4? Grab a collar of umbral darkness (Tome of Magic), then invisibility, pass without trace, and alter self as your assassin spells and you're all set for sneaking and infiltrating.

[Nabirius]

Rogue3/swordsage2/assassin4? Grab a collar of umbral darkness (Tome of Magic), then invisibility, pass without trace, and alter self as your assassin spells and you're all set for sneaking and infiltrating.

Shadowlord comes later?

[Flickerdart]

How is this an odd build? It's just a shadowpouncer. Hell, you don't even need Rogue for it, just take Assassin's Stance to get the +2d6 SA. If you have a hankering for more attacks, take a Monk dip for Flurry of Blows and snap up Sun School, for an extra attack added every time you 'port.

[Nabirius]

How is this an odd build? It's just a shadowpouncer. Hell, you don't even need Rogue for it, just take Assassin's Stance to get the +2d6 SA. If you have a hankering for more attacks, take a Monk dip for Flurry of Blows and snap up Sun School, for an extra attack added every time you 'port.

Need rouge to search for traps and Sneak attack, it requires 2 sneak attack dice and I don't think the stance qualifies.

[Godskook]

Factotum is a better 1-level dip for getting all skills as class skills than Rogue is, cause you get access to all the skills.

[Nabirius]

Factotum is a better 1-level dip for getting all skills as class skills than Rogue is, cause you get access to all the skills.

Yeah but then I miss out on the sneak attack I need to get into Shadowlord.

[Flickerdart]

Need rouge to search for traps and Sneak attack, it requires 2 sneak attack dice and I don't think the stance qualifies.
Why wouldn't it? Shadowlord requires Sneak Attack. The stance grants Sneak Attack.

[Nabirius]

Why wouldn't it? Shadowlord requires Sneak Attack. The stance grants Sneak Attack.

While you are in the stance, its like using shape-shift in order to qualify for the Beholder Mage class. I will not be in the stance at all times.

[Crossblade]

Scout comes to mind as an alternative, just throwing the idea out there, as I'm bad with optimising.

[Nabirius]

Scout comes to mind as an alternative, just throwing the idea out there, as I'm bad with optimising.

Unfortunately they get skirmish and Shadowlord requires sneak attack

[Hirax]

Yeah, I meant to say shadowlord after assassin4. Assassin has easy entry requirements and gives good stuff up front. You can't get into shadowlord until level 8, it seemed like a natural filler. Assassins get death attack immediately and have a better spell list both in core and when you add the Spell Compendium. You could do assassin2/shadowlord2 to start, but then you'd only have level 1 spells in each class. You can get hide in plain sight from the collar, so don't worry about fitting in more assassin levels for that ability. You might ask your DM if you could just have shadowlord progress assassin spells, or somehow mush their spellcasting together.

edit: just to be sure I wasn't making a terrible assumption, is your DM letting the shadow jaunt maneuver qualify you for shadowlord? Otherwise you'd need more assassin levels from my build (to be able to cast dimensions door) before being able to get in, which wouldn't be so exciting.

[Flickerdart]

While you are in the stance, its like using shape-shift in order to qualify for the Beholder Mage class. I will not be in the stance at all times.
Why not? It's a great stance.

[Nabirius]

Yeah, I meant to say shadowlord after assassin4. Assassin has easy entry requirements and gives good stuff up front. You can't get into shadowlord until level 8, it seemed like a natural filler. Assassins get death attack immediately and have a better spell list both in core and when you add the Spell Compendium. You could do assassin2/shadowlord2 to start, but then you'd only have level 1 spells in each class. You can get hide in plain sight from the collar, so don't worry about fitting in more assassin levels for that ability. You might ask your DM if you could just have shadowlord progress assassin spells, or somehow mush their spellcasting together.

That sounds like a good idea. It will take some time for me to get rolling into shadow-lord and it's a long way off, but this should but me in Tier 3, so at least I won't be a huge liability.

[Nabirius]

Why not? It's a great stance.

No doubt, its one of my favorites that said it's arguably temporary and therefore should not be able to meet the entry requirements.

[Flickerdart]

No doubt, its one of my favorites that said it's arguably temporary and therefore should not be able to meet the entry requirements.
There's no rule against using temporary sources for entry. As soon as you have +2d6 SA, you can enter Teflammar Shadowlord, because the game doesn't discriminate between having something for a little while and having it for keepsies.

[The Gilded Duke]

Honestly, Teflammer Shadowlord is overrated.
Instead, pick up the Battle Jump feat.

Battle Jump lets you charge whenever you fall onto an enemy from 5 feet or more above, the charge does double damage. There is also a weapon enhancement in the same book, Valorous, that lets you deal double damage on a charge.

I'd start with a Whirling Frenzy Lion Totem Barbarian. Now if you want to go stealthy you could do Swordsage, but I hate their refresh method. I'd suggest going Warblade instead. White Raven lets you charge with bonuses and do some White Raven Tactics shenanigans, and Tiger Claw can let you leap above an enemy as a swift action.

Use the magic items or the feat to get access to the Shadow Jaunt maneuvers, to get Standard, Move, and Swift action porting (above the enemy). Then pick up some Anklets of Translocation to be able to port as an immediate action in response to being attacked.

Mix with Power Attack / Shock Trooper as desired.

[Wings of Peace]

If you're just in it for Shadowpounce and don't mind spending an extra level to get it then I recommend Crinti Shadow Marauder. It saves a feat or two as a I recall. Also, don't forget to take Craven!

[Godskook]

@The Gilded Duke, Battle Jump fairly clearly only allows you to count an action you can already do as a Charge.

[BobVosh]

Last iron chef cooked up Shadow Dancer. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220956&page=11)
A couple used Shadowlord, and all are great for picking over for ideas. Don't forget to get darkstalker if you do go shadow dancer. :D

[Wings of Peace]

Last iron chef cooked up Shadow Dancer. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220956&page=11)
A couple used Shadowlord, and all are great for picking over for ideas. Don't forget to get darkstalker if you do go shadow dancer. :D

Shadow Dancer 1 + Child of Shadow stance (which Swordsages get) = Winning.

Nevermind, I failed to actually read Child of Shadow. It still technically works since Hide in Plain Sight is a class feature in the case of Shadowdancer as opposed to an action as described by Child of Shadows but it becomes a more debatable use.

[Nabirius]

Last iron chef cooked up Shadow Dancer. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220956&page=11)
A couple used Shadowlord, and all are great for picking over for ideas. Don't forget to get darkstalker if you do go shadow dancer. :D

Thanks for the idea I'll look through it.

To Gilded, the main problem with what you suggested is that it is essentially a pure martial build and I need a Rouge character. The main odd thing about this build is not the idea but the specific needs, namely trap-finding, and sneakery

[Analytica]

There's no rule against using temporary sources for entry. As soon as you have +2d6 SA, you can enter Teflammar Shadowlord, because the game doesn't discriminate between having something for a little while and having it for keepsies.

Plenty of DM's might, though. And it would surprise me a lot if many of the writers for the game aren't also in that crowd. Not that either needs to matter in the OPs game, of course.

[Flickerdart]

Plenty of DM's might, though. And it would surprise me a lot if many of the writers for the game aren't also in that crowd. Not that either needs to matter in the OPs game, of course.
Plenty of DMs might also ban PrCs entirely - a DM is explicitly encouraged to limit PrC accessibility, whereas changing prerequisite rules only falls under the umbrella of Rule 0.