(PF) I'm a Rogue! I Mean... I'm a Wizard!

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

So, using this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225914) as a reference....

I would like to create a Rogue 1/Wizard 1/Rogue X. His schtick is to pretend he is a powerful wizard using the False Casting Feat, and a high bluff.

For those of you who didn't reference the above thread, false Casting is a PF feat that allows you to use a spell trigger item (such as a wand, scroll, ring, etc) and trick any observers into believing YOU are casting said spell. if said observers have no ranks in spellcraft, they AUTOMATICALLY believe you are casting the spell. If an observer DOES have spellcraft, and for some reason chooses to make a spellcraft check on you, their spellcraft check is opposed by your bluff check. If they don't beat your bluff, they continue to believe you are casting the spell yourself.

So, I want to make a rogue that commits a massive fraud to trick everyone, even powerful spellcasters, into believing he is a powerful wizard. With a high bluff, it should be possible.

He will act like a rockstar basically, being a sort of "celebrity spellcaster". He writes books about his exploits, tricks people into believing he is, indeed, a powerful caster. He wants the fame and the social benefits that come with that, as well as the "immortality" that such fame brings.

However, he is well aware that his fraud is so massive, that should it ever fail, he will lose it all. when in public, he is utterly confident, but when alone at night, the doubt eats away at him. He knows hes nothing but a good for nothing rogue, masked by lies.

I may use this for PFS play, so keep it pathfinder pure, and abide by PFS rules where possible. (if you are aware of them).

Rogue 1/Wizard 1/Rogue X
Half Elf (alternate racial ability: Arcane Training)

20 point buy
STR 10
DEX 14 (16)
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 14

traits:
Magical Knack
Fast talker?

Skill Focus: bluff
1 Magical Aptitude
3 False Casting
5 Combat Reflexes
7 Iron Will
9 Toughness
11
13
15
17
19

Rogue Talents
2 Finesse
4 Honeyed Words
6 Offensive Defense
8 Surprise Attack
10 Hunter's Surprise
12 Skill Mastery
14 Hard to Fool
16
18

Familiar: Viper, +3 Bluff

I need help on feats, obviously. I can't do TWF, since I need a hand open for wands or scrolls to propagate the lie of being a wizard. I still would like to maintain combat effectiveness, however.

The Wizard dip is to a.) auto succeed on UMD checks with wizard spell items, and b.) to actually have low level spells to cast, to further "prove" he is an actual caster, and c.) having a spell book of 0 and 1st level spells (and the rest filled with gibberish) further adds to the lies.

Its a rather complex build when it comes to role-playing and pulling it off, but it seems the build itself should be fairly simple, mechanically. Im just having some troubles filling in the blank spaces around the important parts.

Thanks in advance guys!

[navar100]

Someone has a thing for Gilderoy Lockheart.
:smallbiggrin:

[Blyte]

I say go total rogue. Imo, being a level one wizard is missing the point... If you must dip I suggest sorcery so you have no actual formal arcane training.

and how about the charlatan archetype? perhaps coupled with the Rakashasa blood line, as they get good bluff bonus with their blood power at level 1.

be sure you have a good disguise skill to look the part convincingly and conceal your mithril chain shirt and rogue implements well.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

I say go total rogue. Imo, being a level one wizard is missing the point... If you must dip I suggest sorcery so you have no actual formal arcane training.

and how about the charlatan archetype? perhaps coupled with the Rakashasa blood line, as they get good bluff bonus with their blood power at level 1.

be sure you have a good disguise skill to look the part convincingly and conceal your mithril chain shirt and rogue implements well.

the point is to pretend you are a powerful wizard... having a single level of wizard (basically being a failed wizard) isn't a bad thing, and adds several tricks to the deception.

All rogue has some mechanical disadvantages as well: needing to optimize both bluff and UMD, and low level UMD is notoriously unreliable.

It is something I have considered though... its just a little too difficult to pull off at an early level.

[Calanon]

Something like this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k97W01GX6Y&feature=related) :smallbiggrin:

I can imagine your character doing some stuff like this... pick up Arcane Trickster just incase a You-Know-What shows up :smalleek:

[Little Brother]

Might I suggest the charlatan (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6543.0) PrC from Dragon 335?

Has exactly what you're looking for, and does it very well.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Might I suggest the charlatan (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6543.0) PrC from Dragon 335?

Has exactly what you're looking for, and does it very well.

PF Pure, might be used in PFS play... so no 3.5 anything, thank you muchly.

[Daftendirekt]

Someone has a thing for Gilderoy Lockheart.
:smallbiggrin:

I was thinking that very thing.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Someone has a thing for Gilderoy Lockheart.
:smallbiggrin:

I didn't even think of that actually, until a bit later on... I just saw this feat, and thought what an interesting character that would be. :smallbiggrin:

[navar100]

Truth be told, the Wizard of Oz came before Gilderoy.

[Belril Duskwalk]

the point is to pretend you are a powerful wizard... having a single level of wizard (basically being a failed wizard) isn't a bad thing, and adds several tricks to the deception.

All rogue has some mechanical disadvantages as well: needing to optimize both bluff and UMD, and low level UMD is notoriously unreliable.

It is something I have considered though... its just a little too difficult to pull off at an early level. :

Given the framing for roleplaying/build combination of this character, this concept makes me think of Julio Scoundrel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0390.html) You present yourself as being really good at something, when in fact you ought to be less than mediocre. Through a good helping of trickery, you manage to fool everyone into thinking you are what you present yourself to be in spite of the fact that you very patently are not. I like this idea even more now than I did before.

EDIT: The difference between Gilderoy or Oz and this character being that, if Gilderoy or Oz got stuck in a situation where they had to prove themselves in front of people they would most likely fail, badly. This character is liable to be able to keep his fakery together even under observation.

[Bhaakon]

"Magical" charlatans and illusionists are older than the written word anyway.

[Randomguy]

If you want to reduce the risk of losing everything, put ranks in disguise and make the wizard a false persona. If you ever get discovered, make a new false persona.

Use custom magic item creation rules to get your hands on something that looks like a wand and fires a spell that you can sneak attack with. Make it something that deals acid, sonic or ideally force damage, and is SR: No. The best spell would be force orb, from 3.5, but you could settle with Melf's acid arrow in a pinch. This could be your weapon of choice, so you can fight without breaking character. Carry a bow or something as a back up. The downside is you waste your iterative attacks.

[Daftendirekt]

If you want to reduce the risk of losing everything, put ranks in disguise and make the wizard a false persona. If you ever get discovered, make a new false persona.

Rogue is the perfect entry into Spymaster (CAdv77), which gives you that very thing. Decent class for a rogue, too; 8+int skill points, 3/4 BAB, and some sneak attack (not much, 2d6 over 6 levels, but better than nothing).

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

If you want to reduce the risk of losing everything, put ranks in disguise and make the wizard a false persona. If you ever get discovered, make a new false persona.

Use custom magic item creation rules to get your hands on something that looks like a wand and fires a spell that you can sneak attack with. Make it something that deals acid, sonic or ideally force damage, and is SR: No. The best spell would be force orb, from 3.5, but you could settle with Melf's acid arrow in a pinch. This could be your weapon of choice, so you can fight without breaking character. Carry a bow or something as a back up. The downside is you waste your iterative attacks.

It soudns like you are describing a wand of acid splash or Melf's Acid Arrow. :smallwink:

[Randomguy]

It soudns like you are describing a wand of acid splash or Melf's Acid Arrow. :smallwink:

Basically, yes, but instead of an actual wand it's a custom made magic item that has infinite charges so that you don't need to buy new ones.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Basically, yes, but instead of an actual wand it's a custom made magic item that has infinite charges so that you don't need to buy new ones.

oh, yes yes. I see... lovely. now if I can just get one of shocking grasp as well.... :smallwink:

[Blyte]

not having a guaranteed success seems more of a good way to utilize your bluff in other ways.. "I lost my concentration", "ohh, that fireball was prepared with a dud batch of bat guano", "these thing even happen to the best of wizards friends"

having an actual familiar is also just too too easy, it's ACTUAL wizard trappings for crying out loud. use handle animal and have a disobedient ferret or some other critter(s).. again giving you a way to use your bluff to explain why "he is having issues with you" or is demanding better living conditions in your "extra-demensional familiar abode" IE small sack..

or have an actual intelligent minor magical creature who is in on your scam and plays the part of your familiar so long as he is on the pay roll.

[Zaq]

Where are you getting all these wands and scrolls? I mean, I suppose it's not THAT suspicious for a well-known caster to be down at the local magic mart stocking up on those sorts of things, but it seems like the kind of thing you might want to avoid drawing attention to, if you can avoid it. How good can you get your Disguise score?

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Where are you getting all these wands and scrolls? I mean, I suppose it's not THAT suspicious for a well-known caster to be down at the local magic mart stocking up on those sorts of things, but it seems like the kind of thing you might want to avoid drawing attention to, if you can avoid it. How good can you get your Disguise score?

Its true, its something I have thought of. Most of my money would go to magic items. As for disguise score... not sure. I wasn't planning on disguising myself. I was mostly planning on just "being" the "wizard" 24/7, and relying on my bluff to make others believe it.

[Kol Korran]

this reminds me very much of this hilarious thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195049) no feats needed, just damn good roleplay, and the patience of the group and DM. :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

[Laniius]

Where are you getting all these wands and scrolls? I mean, I suppose it's not THAT suspicious for a well-known caster to be down at the local magic mart stocking up on those sorts of things, but it seems like the kind of thing you might want to avoid drawing attention to, if you can avoid it. How good can you get your Disguise score?

Master Craftsman feat would be hilarious. New feat in Pathfinder, where you can craft Magic Arms and Armor and Wondrous Items without having any caster levels, with your ranks in a chosen profession or craft skill counting as your caster level. In Pathfinder, unless it's a wand, scroll, potion, or staff, you don't even need to know the spell required to craft an item. That just raises the DC by 5 for every component missing. And for wands and scrolls, he can buy one wand and then use charges from THAT wand to power the crafting of other wands. It's kind of neat actually.

[Waker]

I'm one of the supporters for a pure rogue over a dip in Wizard.
Traits: Magical Knack is fine, but I'd say take Dangerously Curious with it.
Rogue Talents:
Convincing Lie: Your feats of magery are so impressive, surely the tales will spread.
Black Market Connections: Gives you easier access to all those amazing toys.
Minor/Major Magical Talent: Gives you some access to low level spells.
Familiar: Gives you a Wizards familiar at your Rogue Level -4. Allows you to then take Improved Familiar.
Dispelling Strike: Getting a chance to dispel on every sneak attack isn't bad. If only you could combine it with Destructive Dispel.
Feats:
Skill Focus (UMD or Bluff)- you get it for free as a Half-Elf.
Throw Anything: Nothing wrong with chucking around a few grenades.
Boon Companion: Cancels out the penalty from the Familiar Class feature.
Improved Familiar: Take your pick.
Master Alchemist: Helps with the charade when you have all kinds of explosives and acids.
Master Craftsman: Allows you to make magic items without being able to cast spells. How could this be any more suited to your character?

I will also suggest the Charlatan ACF for your character. Gives a nice boost to Bluff and I'm sure you can do something with Rumor-mongering.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

I'm one of the supporters for a pure rogue over a dip in Wizard.
Traits: Magical Knack is fine, but I'd say take Dangerously Curious with it.

Everything else is fine... but Magical Knack does NOTHING without a caster level. it increases your caster level by 2, but not spells per day or spells known, or for spell level. its a multiclass trait for sure.

[Waker]

Everything else is fine... but Magical Knack does NOTHING without a caster level. it increases your caster level by 2, but not spells per day or spells known, or for spell level. its a multiclass trait for sure.

Y'know, I read the trait at the beginning of my post, but went back and re-edited it a few times before finally posting and forgot what it originally did. With that in mind I would instead suggest
Hedge Magician: Reduces the cost of crafting magic items, pair it with Master Crafter.
Skeptic: Bonus to resist Illusions, I like it because of the fluff.
Magical Talent: Just a free 0-lvl spell.

Fan created traits from the PF SRD.
Theoretical Magician: Gives you a bonus to spellcraft that's actually higher if you can't cast spells.
Failed Apprentice: Bonus on svs for Arcane spells.