(Pathfinder) Clarifying Symbiont Item Slots

[Deviston]

Greetings all, I have a little bit of a problem.

I'm not sure how item slots and symbionts work together, and I'm having a dual symbiont "spacing" problem.

The first part is simple, can someone detail me how symbionts work with item slots and so forth.

The second is a little more complicated, mostly due to the fact that two symbionts in question are homebrew. I want to take the Flame Gauntlet and the Angel Claws symbionts. Flame Gauntlet is same as crawling claw but adds 1 point fire damage. The angel claws however, are and pair of claws that have a bony tendril that travels up the arm for them to connect at the shoulder blades where they dig into your body for nourishment.

Do these two items conflict for spacing? Can I have them both?

Thanks again,
Deviston

Edit: Additionally, if an item or effect says you gain claw attacks, is that a "natural weapon" then? If so, does that allow me to meet the prereqs for Multiattack? To piggy back on that, Multiattack says I need three or more natural attacks, if I don't, I should take take the Two Wep fighting chain right? (for Angel Claws for example)

[Deviston]

No takers?

[LaughingLemur]

What is a symbiont? What book is it from?

[Deviston]

Oh... I didn't even think of the possibility that people didn't know what they are. Here is a list of published symbionts, their books, and page numbers.

Breed Leech (Daelkyr), Magic of Eberron pg. 154-155 — Extra HP and bonus to Fortitude saves.

Cerebral Hood (Cerebral), Fiend Folio pg. 217 — Mind Blast, Blindsight, immunity to inhaled dangers, no need to breathe, eat, or drink. Deals 1 point of daily Intelligence damage, plus another point each time Mind Blast is used.

Crawling Gauntlet (Daelkyr), Magic of Eberron pg. 155-156 — Gain natural Claw attack.

Fiendish Familiar (Fiendish), Fiend Folio pg. 219 — Gain an additional free spell when taking a Wizard level; learn spells as other casters; treat your ability bonus for the purpose of determining bonus spells as one higher than it actually is.

Ghostly Visage (Fiendish, Undead?), Fiend Folio pg. 222 — Gain a Gaze attack that paralyzes with fear, immunity to mind-affecting effects.

Gutworm (Fiendish), Fiend Folio pg. 220 — Bonus to Constitution, Rage at will, Neutralize Poison once per day, causes various hunger-related penalties.

Living Breastplate (Daelkyr), Eberron Campaign Setting pg. 299-300 — Medium armor, high AC, reasonable Armor Check Penalty and Max Dex, moderate Arcane Spell Failure rate. Damage reduction bypassed by unique material, bonus to Constitution, Light Fortification, automatically stabilizes host.

Mind Leech (Cerebral), Fiend Folio pg. 217-218 — Mind Blast and several other Psi-like Abilities, all of which deal Intelligence damage to you when used. Fills the neck slot.

Psionic Sinew (Cerebral), Fiend Folio pg. 217 — Blindsight; Bonus to Strength; Armor bonus to AC; Claws of the Bear and Vigor as PLAs that deal Dex damage to the host.

Shadow Sibling (Daelkyr), Magic of Eberron pg. 156 — Immediate action to gain 50% concealment against a single attack.

Soul Tick (Fiendish), Fiend Folio pg. 220-222 — Free Empower Spell on certain spells, other spells require Spellcraft check to cast at all, constant Protection from Chaos and Good, treated as Evil for spells even if not, deals daily Constitution damage.

Spellwurm (Daelkyr), Magic of Eberron pg. 156-157 — Gain a few spells known.

Stormstalk (Daelkyr), Magic of Eberron pg. 157 — Gain a Gaze attack that deals Electricity damage.

Tentacle Whip (Daelkyr), Eberron Campaign Setting pg. 300 — Attacks on its own or can be used as a Whip, requires no proficiency, bonus to Disarm attempts, no offhand penalties, attacks inflict Dex-damaging poison.

Throwing Scarab (Daelkyr), Magic of Eberron pg. 157-158 — Gain a free throwing weapon that does slashing and acid damage, once per round.

Tongueworm (Daelkyr), Magic of Eberron pg. 300-301 — Gain a natural Sting attack, inflicts paralyzing poison; gain immunity to poison.

Winter Cyst (Daelkyr), Magic of Eberron pg. 158 — Gain a Gaze attack that deals Cold damage.

And some additional information.
Symbionts and Grafts as Treasure, Magic of Eberron pg. 154 — Suggests rules for handling symbionts and grafts found on NPCs that the players face, and for determining how much a Symbiont is "worth" in terms of WBL. Only covers Symbionts from Eberron Campaign Setting and Magic of Eberron.

Symbiont Traits, Eberron Campaign Setting pg. 299 / Fiend Folio pg. 215-216 / Magic of Eberron pg. 153-154 — Effects of the (Symbiont) subtype.

[Deviston]

Bump For Aid

[Debihuman]

Greetings all, I have a little bit of a problem.

I'm not sure how item slots and symbionts work together, and I'm having a dual symbiont "spacing" problem.

The first part is simple, can someone detail me how symbionts work with item slots and so forth.

The second is a little more complicated, mostly due to the fact that two symbionts in question are homebrew. I want to take the Flame Gauntlet and the Angel Claws symbionts. Flame Gauntlet is same as crawling claw but adds 1 point fire damage. The angel claws however, are and pair of claws that have a bony tendril that travels up the arm for them to connect at the shoulder blades where they dig into your body for nourishment.

Do these two items conflict for spacing? Can I have them both?

Thanks again,
Deviston

Edit: Additionally, if an item or effect says you gain claw attacks, is that a "natural weapon" then? If so, does that allow me to meet the prereqs for Multiattack? To piggy back on that, Multiattack says I need three or more natural attacks, if I don't, I should take take the Two Wep fighting chain right? (for Angel Claws for example)

From Eberron Campaign Setting page page 298 "A symbiont occupies part of the host creature’s body—sometimes, but not always, limiting the number of magic items the host can use in the same way as a magic item does."

2 symbionts cannot occupy the same slot. You can have either the Flame Guantlet or the Flaming Claw but not both.

If an item grants you a claw attack (in this case 2 claw attacks) you may treat it (them) as a natural weapon(s). However, you do not qualify for Multiattack until you gain an additional natural weapon. If you gained a bite attack then you would qualify. If you only had one claw, gaining a bite still wouldn't be enough to qualify for the Multiattack feat since you need 3 or more natural attacks to qualify for it.

2 claw attacks don't benefit from Two Weapon Fighting since your claws are both primary natural weapons. You must be holding a manufactured weapon in both hands for this to count. See the prerequisites. You don't have an "off-handed" weapon to begin with. The number of attacks you make with natural weapons is not based on your BAB but on how many appendages you have.

Where it gets tricky is when you are using a claw and holding a weapon in your other hand. If you have 2 claws, you probably can't do this.


Some creatures combine attacks with natural and manufactured weapons when they make a full attack. When they do so, the manufactured weapon attack is considered the primary attack unless the creature’s description indicates otherwise and any natural weapons the creature also uses are considered secondary natural attacks. These secondary attacks do not interfere with the primary attack as attacking with an off-hand weapon does, but they take the usual -5 penalty (or -2 with the Multiattack feat) for such attacks, even if the natural weapon used is normally the creature’s primary natural weapon.

Having a weapon with no penalty to attack and the claw at -5 is BETTER than having TWF.

I hope this clears things up for you.

Debby