Dungeons and Dragons Online: Any good?

[Lockjaw]

Pretty much what the title says. Every year for Christmas, my wife and I start a good co-op rpg, but there is a distinct shortage this year for xbox. Is ddo any good? And when they say "free," exactly how free are they talking about? Can we go from first to twentieth level without paying anything?

[Fri]

Yes, it's good. And it's really not a wow clone. It's a bit more actiony, with jumping puzzles and such, and grouping is important, especially at later levels, but getting random groups is very easy in this game, it's part of the gampelay. It's not completely based on pbp dnd as well. For example monks are something like ki-based, they collect ki by doing stuffs to unleash powerful finishers. And the power level is way higher than pbp, a level 1 character are decked with +1 equipments and stuffs, and you gain something what I call a 'mini level up' four time per level, before actually levelling up like in pbp dnd.

It's free, you could get to 20th level without paying. what you pay for are useful though. for example, a shared bank account between your characters. But the most improtant thing you pay for is 'adventure packets.' Basically dungeons and quest packet you do for better xp, items, or simply variety.

The gameplay is dungeon based. If you ever play dungeons fighter online or other level based korean games you should be familiar with it. It's like this.

You have dungeons or quests. When your group enter it, your groups are the only one inside that instance. You're supposed to play the dungeons couple of times, first in easier level to get the feeling of the quest, then at higher levels when your levels are higher and you have the feeling of the quest/dungeon already and have the strategy for that level in your mind. If that sounds interesting, maybe it's your cup of tea. If you feel like you should just do a quest once, you might not feel like it. Some earlier quests/dungeons might feel boring, but believe me, it'll get really varied later.

Oh, and experience is almost wholly based on quests/dungeons. You don't get any xp from simply killing mobs. You might get xp from challenges (like for example killing 100% of mobs in a dungeon will grant you extra xp) but you can't grind by killing mobs.

The classes are pretty varied. you have your fighters and paladins and such that can use intimidate to attract aggros, bards that can use diplomacy to make aggroes ignore them and use fascinate to distract enemies and use songs to buff people, your clerics and wizards, and rogues who are depending on sneak attacks, they must hide to unleash sneak attack, or flank people. And as I said, it's kinda more actiony than your usual point and click hack and slash games. you can block to have more DR, tumble past enemies, and you have your jumping puzzles and such.

If you ask me for its downside, I'll say that it looks kinda drab. really, especially at early levels. it's all brown and sewers. It's really a shame.

[Vilyathas]

Pretty much what Fri said. That said, the game may be unfriendly to beginners if you're looking to group up with others. Something to do with an aging population of veteran players looking to get the highest XP/second.

Start off by making a simple class to play, Paladins recommended. Start a group of your own if you can't join others. Don't be afraid to admit you're a beginner, and that you need someone to walk you through quests. That should be enough to get a couple of Samaritans to join your group. You can also make characters in each server (Argonessen, Cannith, Khyber, etc) to get a feel of the gameplay culture in each, before settling in one server for the long-term.

As a new player, I wouldn't recommend you to spend any money on the game yet. Get a feel of it first, and if you look through the forums (http://forums.ddo.com), you'll notice quite a number of posts about how buggy this game is. IMHO, the bugs are not much of an impediment for the free-to-play experience, and is only noticeable at higher levels of gameplay.

Have fun! :smallsmile:

[Luzahn]

I tried playing it, and it seemed pretty good. Just couldn't keep going with the quest style; Wow had burned me out on that sort of thing. I only wish I had played DDO first.

[Eldariel]

If looking for a F2P MMO, I'd look at LotRO first. Both are made by Turbine but LotRO lends itself substantially easier to F2P. Of course, it's really all about whether you prefer Eberron or Arda *shrug*


But yeah, LotrO offers questpacks for the first 30 levels (out of 75, currently) for free and all Epic quests (basically quests that follow the main story) are free throughout the levels. The points used to purchase questpacks are also quite easy to acquire through Deeds (Deeds generally involve "complete X quests in an area", "kill X enemies of a given type in an area" or "visit X places in an area") and of course, new areas open up new Deeds.

While of course any free run through an F2P is going to require some grinding to open up the midgame and endgame content, it feels kind of painless by comparison in LotRO; I've tried to do fully free runs of both and DDO just ground to a halt in the teens while I've got everything pre-Isengard open in LotRO by now and Isengard isn't really that far-off. By comparison, in DDO getting past level 8 was really hard already. The points are much slower to acquire and there's simply less free content. Of course, both have enough content that you can get the "free sample" before deciding whether or not to invest in it. Make no mistake; grinding points is not an efficient time-money conversion.

[GeekGirl]

I enjoyed it quite a bit, but i would suggest playing with friends. The game was much more enjoyable with people I knew rather than pick up groups. but i guess thats true with any game.

[Othesemo]

Eh... I tried it for a few days when it became free, but it just couldn't keep my interest. I'm actually a bit surprised that it's lasted as long as it has.

[VarenTai]

Frankly, I like it way better than WoW or LotRO. The action-y style is way more fun than the skill based combat in WoW and clones, and the since the gameplay is designed for parties, you lose very distinct benefits when cutting out certain classes, unlike WoW where the whole game is really designed for someone to solo their whole way through the game and no game content is locked out because you didn't choose a particular class.

For instance, while I usually play pallies or mages, I found I looooove playing a rogue in DDO. Without a rogue in the party, you cannot unlock any doors (or other locked items), disarm any traps, and your chances of finding secret doors just went way down. However, a rogue makes for a terrible solo character since they can't stand on their own against monsters, being so squishy and all. :smallsmile:

So DDO has added a henchman dynamic - I bring along an NPC cleric to keep me healed up when I have to fight toe to toe, and he does a pretty good job of tanking and keeping aggro long enough for my sneak attack damage to really whittle them down or kill them completely.

If you and your wife are playing together, I highly recommend one of you play a pally, one plays a rogue (drow, if you feel like paying to unlock that race right away), and then bring along a cleric henchman and perhaps a mage. There's a lot of content to play through before you ever come up against quests you can't play without buying.

You can also grind Turbine points by playing characters on different servers and gaining favor points by completing quests. By doing that, you can purchase the really great quest packs and potentially never pay a dime all the way through level 20.

Some people don't like the combat, but I really love it since it's more fast-paced. Try it, if you like it, then spend a little cash to improve the game experience.

[Balain]

I would go for Lotro as well. I tried DDO but it didn't grab me. Lotro was much better to me. Plus I got my girlfriend to play it and she loves it too.

I'm actuttalya vip member, so I'm a little biased

[VarenTai]

I would go for Lotro as well. I tried DDO but it didn't grab me. Lotro was much better to me. Plus I got my girlfriend to play it and she loves it too.

I'm actuttalya vip member, so I'm a little biased

We should note that LotRO is largely a WoW clone, while DDO is a very distinct game. If you are looking for a free WoW experience, go LotRO. If you wanna try something very different and new, try DDO.

[Eldariel]

We should note that LotRO is largely a WoW clone, while DDO is a very distinct game. If you are looking for a free WoW experience, go LotRO. If you wanna try something very different and new, try DDO.

Well, the mechanical differences aren't that fundamental. The biggest difference is really just that DDO does everything with instances while LotRO has a large portion of the quests in the overworld. The bigger differences come in form of the minutiae, the classes (compared to most similar games, LotRO classes tend to get tons of abilities) and most importantly, the worlds. Indeed, I'd first and foremost go with what you like the most.

LotRO is foremost an experience; a journey to the Middle Earth if you will. DDO does Eberron quite well, on the other hand.

[T.G. Oskar]

he bigger differences come in form of the minutiae, the classes (compared to most similar games, LotRO classes tend to get tons of abilities)

I dunno, but that's not a very respectful representation of LotRO. Now, since I haven't played LotRO to deliver a clear distinction between both, I CAN mention one thing that DDO has, which can be both a blessing and a curse: it retains D&D 3.5 multiclassing. While it's more favorable to make a single-classed character, dipping some levels into another class can make for a very interesting build.

For example: dipping one or two levels in Rogue grants not only a huge load of skill points, but also extra damage via Sneak Attack, Evasion, and the enhancements from the Rogue side up to level 2. For most builds, it makes a BIG difference (for example, it is great for Rangers whom otherwise lack trap-disarming skills, as well as for Wizards to take advantage of their Intelligence).

Another thing I would place different is the quests themselves. Eldariel mentions how heavily instanced they are, but I will retort with how are they designed. Certainly, there are things that are meant to resemble D&D gameplay (such as the XP being granted once you finish the quest), but this also brings nice stuff: for example, the assorted puzzles, the fact that you need to watch for traps and also have the chance to disarm them, and also ways to handle some battles (though most of the time you'll prefer melee or a well-placed spell). I'd say it depends on the OP's tolerance to instancing, but I'd give it a go just for the first few quests. The Challenges (which are based on the Skirmishes, IIRC, from LotRO; again, the same company so it's not really stealing) are interesting but also, erm...challenging (code to say "AARRGHH, that darn quest!!!!")


[...]and most importantly, the worlds.

I find they could go a bit further with Eberron, since being trapped in a single city can be a bit unnerving. However, that would require basically refurbishing the game from the ground up, and that would be mostly to add Sharn which is a world by itself (if judging from City of Towers). The City of Stormreach alone is, IMO, larger than any other MMO town you'll ever visit, and the city is actually smaller than Sharn, though not as much as Fairhaven or Rekkenmark or Thaliost or Flamekeep or...well, most of the Eberron cities. There are many things lost in translation, and most people insist on seeing Eberron as a high fantasy game when it can be much, much more (I miss the feel of pulp-fiction on the game, but they're really cranking up the dungeonpunk feel). So it doesn't make that much justice to Eberron, but it can't be helped considering Eberron is VERY hard to tackle.

[Eldariel]

I dunno, but that's not a very respectful representation of LotRO.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. This appears to be a communications error. Maybe I implied something I didn't intend? Could you extrapolate upon what you mean by this?

[VarenTai]

Well, the mechanical differences aren't that fundamental. The biggest difference is really just that DDO does everything with instances while LotRO has a large portion of the quests in the overworld. The bigger differences come in form of the minutiae, the classes (compared to most similar games, LotRO classes tend to get tons of abilities) and most importantly, the worlds. Indeed, I'd first and foremost go with what you like the most.

LotRO is foremost an experience; a journey to the Middle Earth if you will. DDO does Eberron quite well, on the other hand.

I am speaking of the combat mechanics, which are drastically different from LotRO and WoW.

[Tyndmyr]

Short answer: Not really.

Longer answer: It's not great, but it's not horrifically terrible. Also, it is free. I was bored of it before the trial month was over, personally, but there's not really any risk to trying it if you're hard up for games.

[T.G. Oskar]

I'm not sure what you're saying here. This appears to be a communications error. Maybe I implied something I didn't intend? Could you extrapolate upon what you mean by this?

What I meant was, that regarding classes, you didn't made DDO much justice. Thus, I gave examples of the unique aspect of DDO, which is drawn from the tabletop version: multiclassing. Very few (if none) MMOs actually grant the ability to twink with your character and make something different, whereas on DDO you can add a few levels of one class to another and make a difference. Of course, it's a long way before it is considered "competitive" (no theurge/gish PrEs, no feats that increase CL) but what it does exist works nicely.

To put it succinctly: you mentioned one good thing that LotRO has regarding classes (the wealth of abilities), but you weren't fair enough on the class system of DDO to compare. Thus, I had to complete that for the OP to consider.

[NeoVid]

It's very good. I don't like MMOs in general, and I didn't like D&D 3.5, but put them together, and it made a game I've been playing fanatically for a year now. 3.5's mechanics turn out to work far better in real time than turn based.

That said, even though the game is very team-oriented with one of the best communities I've even seen in an online game, making a good character is just as newbie-unfriendly as it was in tabletop. I recommend having someone who already knows the game help you with your character.

Also, there's a GitP guild, someone else will have to give you the info on it.

[Eldariel]

I am speaking of the combat mechanics, which are drastically different from LotRO and WoW.

Hm. I didn't find the differences that huge, to be honest. I mean, DDO does things a bit differently (I think the most important difference is the magic system, really) and massively scales down the pointless numeric growth (LotRO does too compared to WoW but not nearly as drastically) but it's still got similar party construction considerations and similar class archetypes.


What I meant was, that regarding classes, you didn't made DDO much justice.

Ah, so I assume you meant to say "I dunno, but that's not a very respectful representation of DDO"? Fair enough; I was assuming OP being familiar with D&D 3.5 already so I didn't feel the need to extrapolate upon how DDO does it (since it's basically the same with the perks system tacked on).

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Dungeons & Dragons Online isn't truly terrible, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it. The graphics are a bit ugly, with icky textures and low-pollycount environments. Combat is dull and repetitive. Class balance is pre-existant. Worst of all, Eberron is the setting. The only two truly enjoyable aspects are character creation (which is flexible and fun), and the opening video (which is pretty epic).

[NeoVid]

One major point I quickly learned about DDO: same as tabletop, the higher level you are, the more fun it is. High level quests have a lot more variety and require much more thought and teamwork, while you have a ton more you can do with any character at high levels.


The graphics are a bit ugly, with icky textures and low-pollycount environments.

Sometimes true, but it does have far better graphics than WoW, especially on Ultra High/dx11 settings.

[Zen Monkey]

I was too burned out on WoW to really appreciate LotRO, but for a free game it passed a lot of time well. DDO may be worth a look.

Is there friendly fire? I couldn't tell from reading their website, and it seriously affects how AoE spellcasters play. Nobody wants the wizard that keeps setting the party on fire.

Does the community expect all clerics/druids to be heal-bots? A dwarven warpriest is very appealing, but not if every group has a 'heal us or leave' mentality. Seems like a cleric could make a good off-tank with their armor and durability.

[Eldariel]

I was too burned out on WoW to really appreciate LotRO, but for a free game it passed a lot of time well. DDO may be worth a look.

Is there friendly fire? I couldn't tell from reading their website, and it seriously affects how AoE spellcasters play. Nobody wants the wizard that keeps setting the party on fire.

Does the community expect all clerics/druids to be heal-bots? A dwarven warpriest is very appealing, but not if every group has a 'heal us or leave' mentality. Seems like a cleric could make a good off-tank with their armor and durability.

Battle Clerics are accepted since, it being D&D, they tend to match up quite well against warriors. Not quite as high damage (since the system avoids crit-immune opponents and there's a lot of warrior-class perks for critting it up) but with a world of awesome spells to make up for it.

That said, Battle Clerics are of course never treated as healers; while they can heal, they don't have the actions to both heal and fight and they're considered frontliners with Blade Barrier and stuff.

[NeoVid]

Is there friendly fire? I couldn't tell from reading their website, and it seriously affects how AoE spellcasters play. Nobody wants the wizard that keeps setting the party on fire.

Does the community expect all clerics/druids to be heal-bots? A dwarven warpriest is very appealing, but not if every group has a 'heal us or leave' mentality. Seems like a cleric could make a good off-tank with their armor and durability.

There are two spells that have friendly fire, and they're only used by trolls and AI enemies.

Clerics and Favored Souls are wanted in parties because you can't run quests without healing/buffs/rezzing. You can be a hugely effective damage dealer with either class, but to get into parties you have to keep people from realizing that.

Also, if you're in a serious situation like a raid battle, be ready to stop fighting and focus on keeping your party alive.

I'm playing a dwarf melee cleric, who has turned out to be by far my most fun and effective character, easily able to solo high level quests on Elite difficulty if I feel like it. However, he stil gets rejected from parties because he has one level of fighter. It's annoying, but I'm not the one who gets hurt be leaving me out of parties.

[Chris Gardiner]

I keep meaning to check this out.

If I go cleric will I be able to get into groups easily (it seems to be the rule for healers in MMOs). This sounds like a very group-based game.

[Augmental]

I was too burned out on WoW to really appreciate LotRO, but for a free game it passed a lot of time well. DDO may be worth a look.

Is there friendly fire? I couldn't tell from reading their website, and it seriously affects how AoE spellcasters play. Nobody wants the wizard that keeps setting the party on fire.

Does the community expect all clerics/druids to be heal-bots? A dwarven warpriest is very appealing, but not if every group has a 'heal us or leave' mentality. Seems like a cleric could make a good off-tank with their armor and durability.

There isn't a druid class yet.

Also, rogues aren't the only ones able to disarm traps anymore. The artificer class gets trapfinding, as well as proficiency with all crossbows, a feat that lets them reload crossbows faster than normal for free, an iron defender pet that can hold the enemy's attention while you shoot them with your crossbow, a variety of useful spells that can, among other things, protect you or your allies, knock down foes, restore your pet's health, summon bolts to use in your crossbow, temoprarily boost a weapon or armor's Enhancement Bonus, and even attack. And all that's gotten at level 1 - higher levels give you access to more abilities and bonuses.

[NeoVid]

I keep meaning to check this out.

If I go cleric will I be able to get into groups easily (it seems to be the rule for healers in MMOs). This sounds like a very group-based game.

Yes to both.

There's some quests that can be soloed, but it's D&D, so most of the game requires thought and teamwork to succeed. Fortunately, there's a really good system for finding/making parties and the absolute best community I've ever seen in an online multiplayer game.

Though I'm told that can depend on the server. Don't start out on Khyber.

[T.G. Oskar]

Being a cleric in the game sometimes is an act of love. It mostly depends on how patient you are baby-sitting, because in most cases that's what you'll be doing.

If you make a group and they see you as a cleric (or favored soul), people may be inclined to zerg their way; aka, going heedlessly, disregarding their safety and bringing as many enemies as possible and then expecting you to "hjeals" them (misspelling for emphasis and joke), as if your mana bar was a second, shared health bar for everyone. However, since you lead the group, people won't be as vitriolic on you.

But, if you join a group made by someone else and you "don't do your job" (basically, heal your allies regardless of what they do), then the blame falls on you for not keeping them alive. Don't even dare to use an AoE if the quest fails, because the blame will be double.

However, that really depends on the group. Some PUGs can be disorganized, some can be pretty organized. It also depends on the server (Thelanis is the friendliest AFAIK, Khyber requires a tough skin to survive from what I've heard), and the group composition. As mentioned, the game can be soloed, but there will be occasions where a big party is recommended. Kobold Assault and Irestone Inlet on the Harbor (the second area you get after Korthos/newbie zone) usually require a big party but CAN be soloed; Archer Point and Gladewatch Outpost Defense on the Marketplace (the third area you get after Korthos and Harbor) often need a group because of the large amounts of enemies (or the time limit, as with Archer Point), and there may be other quests you need a group at if attempting to do on Elite (Freshen the Air, The Swiped Signet, and Proof is in the Poison *shudder*). Then comes Redwillow's Ruins and Tempest Spine, which MUST be done with a group out of the sheer size of the quests. Afterwards, raids (as usual for MMOs).

If you don't mind creating new characters from scratch because of something you did, Permadeath guilds are very nice because these people are careful (their lives depend on it, so to speak). Playing PD can be difficult, but it teaches you the ropes of EVERYTHING and it also helps with the role of everyone and how you should prepare carefully: Fighters (and melees) should always get the best armor and also stuff like damage reduction, miss chances and energy resistance; Clerics (and most divine spellcasting classes, which include Paladins and Rangers to an extent) should know when to heal, when to buff and when to lay the smackdown through spells and melee (and also that wands are the best gift you can give them; in fact, if you have a wand of Cure X Wounds lying around, give it to a Cleric); people should always be behind the Rogue, which is usually hiding and checking if traps are around, then disarming them; Wizards shouldn't just nuke but also provide stuff like Haste and Rage; Rangers should know when to switch their tactic from pew-pewing to swish-swishing, and so forth. Oh, and that Bards always specialize and are a great asset when the player knows how to use them (Artis too). All of this is general playing advice, but it really hammers down and gets digested properly when you play PD.

Incidentally, I have a (mostly forgotten, but used recently and finally able to reach level 10) dwarven Cleric, but he's not so tanky. I wish the Warpriest PrE comes already to see if I could switch it (unless turns don't regenerate and the stuff they get is crummy), because he does pretty well in melee if left). Levels 8-10 can be a hassle, but after level 11 Blade Barrier brings them back to the game and with style. Then again, levels 8-10 can be a hassle to anybody except the cookie-cutter builds with moderately nice gear.

[Zen Monkey]

A few observations from a new player:

It's nice to play a sword and sorcery game that is both new and familiar. Most players will know the races and classes and such, but with some new twists.

The DM narration is an interesting touch but can get repetitive since you'll be re-running instances, because instances/quests are the only real source of xp. The descriptions do help the feeling of actually playing D&D.

Respawning trash enemies: why do they exist? No xp, no treasure, seemingly no point. Combat becomes something to avoid after a while. Maybe this changes once you leave newbie island.

[VarenTai]

Hm. I didn't find the differences that huge, to be honest. I mean, DDO does things a bit differently (I think the most important difference is the magic system, really) and massively scales down the pointless numeric growth (LotRO does too compared to WoW but not nearly as drastically) but it's still got similar party construction considerations and similar class archetypes.

Ah, I see what you are talking about. Yes, the basic archetypes are present, but in WoW, combat is almost entirely skill based. You gain skills constantly as you level, and when you are fighting, you run through your skills and keep an eye on your focus/mana/rage/whatevs.

In DDO, there are only a few skills that you use in combat, and unless you are a fighter, you rarely use those (Trip, Sunder, etc) because they are Strength based. As a rogue, I rarely use any of them. Sometimes I use Bluff to open a target up for Sneak Attack damage, but most often, I don't need to. Most "skills" of that nature are more feats than anything else, so they are a rarer upgrade.

Combat for me is making sure my hireling runs in first to pull aggro, then positioning myself behind my target and Sneak Attacking like mad. When the target moves, I have to move as well. Combat is much more getting the correct position so I get the flanking bonus (or preventing enemies from getting that bonus on me), so there is an arcade action feel to combat in DDO that is entirely missing from WoW.

Of course, if you are a caster or bard, then you use more combat skills/spells than I would, and fighters will use their skills more as well, but even for them, there's more arcade action than in WoW.

Does that clarify better why I say the combat mechanics are completely different?

[T.G. Oskar]

In DDO, there are only a few skills that you use in combat, and unless you are a fighter, you rarely use those (Trip, Sunder, etc) because they are Strength based. As a rogue, I rarely use any of them. Sometimes I use Bluff to open a target up for Sneak Attack damage, but most often, I don't need to. Most "skills" of that nature are more feats than anything else, so they are a rarer upgrade.

It's pretty similar to the tabletop in that regard. Everyone with BAB +1/+2 gets only a few combat maneuvers (which are the "skills" you talk about), but you can only specialize in one. Since Fighters get the most feats and the enhancements to improve them, only Fighters get to use those, but you can have other characters be moderately good with them (Dwarves have Dwarven Training, Half-Elves have Fighter Dilettante which has enhancements that boost Trip and Sunder, plus Vertigo and Shatter which improve Trip and Sunder respectively).

On the other hand, no self-respectable martial character wielding a two-hander (and even one that wields two weapons or S&B) goes without Power Attack, and one with 13 INT and attempting to make an AC build always chooses Combat Expertise. I often wonder why the devs don't change that so fighting defensively becomes a lesser form of Combat Expertise (i.e. as it already is on both DDO and the tabletop form) and all martial characters get a lesser form of Power Attack (i.e. as presented in DDO), with the Power Attack and Combat Expertise feats merely unlocking the limits on expending BAB (such, a character with BAB 15 could get either a +15 to AC or a +15 to damage by sacrificing their BAB); then again, I feel Combat Expertise still relying on Int makes it unusually good for Wizards (and Artificers) but bad for everyone else because of stat-dumping (unless you have +5 tomes).

Stunning Blow and Slicing Blow, on the other hand, are less noticeable even as feats. There's no Improved Stunning/Slicing Blow, and only Stunning Blow gets a weapon upgrade (Stunning +X), so the amount of feats you need for them suddenly becomes a hassle for those classes with feat starvation (*coughcoughPaladinsandRoguescoughcough*), which is why mostly Fighters get to use them (and even then).

I could say more if I were to have a glimpse of how LotRO handles combat (if it relies on point-and-click or if it has a more dynamic, console-esque combat style), but that could be another major difference. In particular, the behavior of even the simplest enemies (Kobold Shamans!!!) can be a surprise for those accustomed to typical MMO point-and-click combat (but not those who might be familiar with, say, Fable or Elder Scrolls). Then there's also the reliance on both games on gear: DDO requires both a good build and good gear for Epic raids, whereas WoW mostly relies on gear, so all we need is how well LotRO relies on either build or gear.

[VarenTai]

I could say more if I were to have a glimpse of how LotRO handles combat (if it relies on point-and-click or if it has a more dynamic, console-esque combat style), but that could be another major difference. In particular, the behavior of even the simplest enemies (Kobold Shamans!!!) can be a surprise for those accustomed to typical MMO point-and-click combat (but not those who might be familiar with, say, Fable or Elder Scrolls). Then there's also the reliance on both games on gear: DDO requires both a good build and good gear for Epic raids, whereas WoW mostly relies on gear, so all we need is how well LotRO relies on either build or gear.

Oh, MAN! Kobold shamans should be such an easy-peasy enemy, but they totally aren't!

if you've played WoW, then you've played LotRO, largely. There are some differences (Virtues and other racial/class unlockables), but it's WoW with a less cartoony setting.

[Eldariel]

I could say more if I were to have a glimpse of how LotRO handles combat (if it relies on point-and-click or if it has a more dynamic, console-esque combat style), but that could be another major difference. In particular, the behavior of even the simplest enemies (Kobold Shamans!!!) can be a surprise for those accustomed to typical MMO point-and-click combat (but not those who might be familiar with, say, Fable or Elder Scrolls). Then there's also the reliance on both games on gear: DDO requires both a good build and good gear for Epic raids, whereas WoW mostly relies on gear, so all we need is how well LotRO relies on either build or gear.

Basically, LotRO has Traits and Gear where DDO has Build & Gear. Further, LotRO has two Legendary Items for each class which basically turn into their own mini-gear operations as they also gain level, and have a certain number of unique abilities of which they can have a certain amount.

You have no multiclassing, but you have a ton of leeway inside a class. Basically, traits allow you to customize your class; every class has 3 trait paths with ~8 traits each that you can freely combine (across the paths) in up to 7 class trait slots. Picking multiples from the same path gives you bonuses associated with that path. For instance, take Loremaster; basically a controller/DPS/pet/support class:
- One of the paths is Master of Nature's Fury which has various DPS-enhancing abilities to the tune of 25% off Induction times for abilities, reduced cooldowns, increased Fire damage, lesser Morale (HP) costs for using damage abilities, more targets in AOEs, power cost reductions & increased base HP + melee capability with your only melee ability. Such abilities are individual traits; then combined they grant you more DPS-related bonuses (this being the DPS path) but also penalties to your controller capabilities. Equipping 5 or more of these opens up the Legendary Trait for this path.
- Second path is Keeper of Animals which enhances your healing and pet. They're along the lines of turning your debuff removal ability into AOE, being able to summon a pet in combat, turning your threat transfer+pet healing ability into AOE party heal, sharing one of your flank-based heals with the target of your other ability, etc. Equipping more of these improves the healing effects from your various abilities and the protection and duration offered by your various buffs.
- Third path is Ancient Master which enhances your debuffing capabilities. These are, again, debuff strength (some get extra effects, others simply give higher miss chances or whatever), debuff applying (one debuff applies root 10 seconds after you use it; this path reduces it to 5 seconds), removes induction from a mezz you've got and so on.

With the trait slots, you can then freely combine these paths to generate the group benefits and individual trait benefits you want. Then you further have 3 Legendary Traits (out of 8) that, for instance on Loremaster, open up the ability to wield a Sword in your offhand to go with your Staff (along with massive stat bonuses to make you a bit more durable as to not die in seconds in melee - Loremaster is a Light Armor low HP class as you'd expect), summon Eagle as a companion instead of the normal Lynx/Bear/Raven, opening up an ability that's a a massive AOE nuke + stun, giving your pet massive boosts, etc. Basically, they're massive boosts that define your character. The only limitations in equipping these is that 3 of them are only available if you have 5 or more of any of the given trait paths equipped.


Every class has a similar hull; ultimately they all get 7 trait slots and 3 legendary trait slots. They all have 8 traits in 3 trait paths, and 8 legendary traits 3 of which are open only if you equip 5 traits from 1 path. Of course, the paths and their effects vary from class to class. And 5 racial trait slots out of 9 (that, surprise surprise, depend on your race) and then 5 virtues that give you static boosts to things like stats, resistances, mitigations, maximum morale/power, morale/power regeneration, et cetera.

Then you have those two legendary items each with a few menus of abilities, and then you have the standard gearing outside that (though contrast to WoW, LotRO tends to have very high quality crafted gear so there's less raiding for gearing, at least before the level cap). With the number of options, it should be obvious that the game relies quite a bit on both, gearing and traiting especially in harder content. I'd say this is actually quite similar to DDO even though feats, levels & enhancements are far more permanent than traits.

DDO certainly has more raw options though due to the free nature of 3.5 multiclassing; DDO has a lot of leeway inside the class taking it from one end of its spectrum to another but you still remain inside that class and while a tank can go DPS, it won't be as good at that as a DPS class (naturally; why have a DPS class at all if a tank can do the same damage?). In DDO, the fact that you actually take levels in an auxillary class means the boundaries blend.


As for combat, it's definitely simpler in LotRO than in DDO. That is, normal enemies aren't very intelligent; ranged enemies will throw a net on you and put distance and start throwing spears, melee brutes will try and bulldoze next to you to stun and kick butt and there's a massive assortment of debuffing going on (this is especially common with "spellcaster" type opponents but basically everything has at least some debuff skill), but the enemies aren't very intelligent beyond the basic strategy. And often even spellcasters close in for melee which makes killing them quite easy.

The game also revolves largely around pick-a-target-and-use-abilities-centered-on/aimed-at-that-target though of course, some effects are self-centered or ground-centered. The bigger technical factor in the game is the sheer number of abilities; a high-level character has some 40-odd unique combat abilities at their disposal so obviously there's a lot of options when it comes to combat. However, the finer aspects of DDO combat such as area aiming being the rule rather than the exception are not there; I daresay DDO is probably mechanically more challenging in terms of combat.