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Little Brother
2011-12-17, 03:38 PM
Okay, I need to build an NPC as a BBEG/BBNG, or at least a recurring antagonist.

The conditions:
I need him to be an aristocrat.
He's lawful, or at least lawful-leaning, and has a massive ego, and, therefor, fights alone. I want him to be able to handle a whole mid-high op low-mid level party.
MONEY! I want him to be rich(But not absurdly so. Feudal lord/noble, not 20th level adventurer), so WBL-mancy is going to be a big part.(I would actually, if possible, like to see two WBL lists, a regular one and a near-cube-level one(Though still not there, I want it winnable)).
I want my players to fear for their lives. I want this to be winnable, but I want it to be hard.

He needs to be no slouch in close combat, but have non-direct damage abilities, too. Controlly-stuffs. Maybe a frightful presence or something?
He must be mostly aristocrat. A total of 25%(ish) of his levels can be non-aristocrat, but must not pull all the weight, and must maintain the flavor. Also, SAD is good.

This character is a human. Levels count be 8-11.
Intelligence and Charisma can be no lower than 14, preferably higher.

Any source is allowed, including dragon magazines, but please tell me where you're getting stuff.

Oh, and assume max 200k GP start up, but preferably less. Show me what 7 feats and a lotta gold can do!

Zaq
2011-12-17, 04:04 PM
Well, as I hardly need to tell you, Aristocrat levels are basically just HD. IF we're explicitly saying that the non-Aristocrat levels can't provide much power, the vast majority of this fellow's power is going to be item-based, as you already know.

So, it comes down to this . . . just how much money does this guy have, and how is he getting it? Does he just have a massive trust fund at GMBanc™? Is he assumed to have some kind of loop going on in the background? If so, what kind of loop? What kind of build resources (feats, levels, etc.) does he have to put into getting his massive riches? Does he have Leadership for an army of crafters (led by a Wizard fond of Flesh to Salt and Wall of Iron)? Is he abusing the business rules from DMG2? Basically, exactly how much money are we talking about, and what kind of resources does that money require? I see that you said 200k bankroll, but again, where did that come from, and do we have to spend any feats or levels or skills to get it?

Also, is it against the spirit of the thing to spend his non-Aristocrat levels dipping into classes with spell/power lists (Magic Domain Cleric, Druid/Spirit Shaman, perhaps Psion or StP Erudite, etc.), so that he can just use magic items without UMD?

Little Brother
2011-12-17, 04:24 PM
Well, as I hardly need to tell you, Aristocrat levels are basically just HD. IF we're explicitly saying that the non-Aristocrat levels can't provide much power, the vast majority of this fellow's power is going to be item-based, as you already know.Perhaps I worded it wrong. I don't want the PrCs to dominate the build. I am fine with a PrCs that improve the build a lot, but only if they enhance what little is there. I am fine with something like Arcane Duelist(Bad example, I know), which improves the build by granting AC/Attack bonuses, which can help with poison and such/better weapons, so money can be spent elsewhere.

That sort of thing rather than, say, Aristocrat 5/Ur-Priest X.

So, it comes down to this . . . just how much money does this guy have, and how is he getting it? Does he just have a massive trust fund at GMBanc™? Is he assumed to have some kind of loop going on in the background? If so, what kind of loop? What kind of build resources (feats, levels, etc.) does he have to put into getting his massive riches? Does he have Leadership for an army of crafters (led by a Wizard fond of Flesh to Salt and Wall of Iron)? Is he abusing the business rules from DMG2? Basically, exactly how much money are we talking about, and what kind of resources does that money require? I see that you said 200k bankroll, but again, where did that come from, and do we have to spend any feats or levels or skills to get it?He is a noble. He owns a small fiefdom/barony/etc. I'm trying to avoid going into the point where infinite wealth is possible, because he is supposed to be very genre-savvy, and would do it if possible.

So think a lesser Doctor Doom. He probably does have a bunch of crafters or something bankrolled(Not through leadership, though), and gets the magic items off them.

Also, is it against the spirit of the thing to spend his non-Aristocrat levels dipping into classes with spell/power lists (Magic Domain Cleric, Druid/Spirit Shaman, perhaps Psion or StP Erudite, etc.), so that he can just use magic items without UMD?Not ideal, but I would not object to an Arcane/Psionic dip. Divine is out, though.

missmvicious
2011-12-17, 04:25 PM
Here's something I slapped together.

He's a deadly fighter when surrounded, has a breath weapon, can fly, and you still have over 250000 GP lying around to stock up on scrolls, potions, rings, wands, magic swords, what-have-you.

Maybe it'll be a good starting point:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/50887717/NPC%20Aristocrat.pdf

Little Brother
2011-12-17, 05:13 PM
Here's something I slapped together.

He's a deadly fighter when surrounded, has a breath weapon, can fly, and you still have over 250000 GP lying around to stock up on scrolls, potions, rings, wands, magic swords, what-have-you.

Maybe it'll be a good starting point:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/50887717/NPC%20Aristocrat.pdfHow do you get that kind of stats?

Plus, you don't get Lesser Invocations, and thus flight, until level 6 of DFA. That was two, which just gets you a single breath effect.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-12-17, 05:49 PM
Possibly make him a lycanthrope? A Human + Dire Lion werecreature would be fitting for a noble, though his Lion HD would be considerably more than his Aristocrat levels. Give him a high Int with Able Learner and he can have max ranks in 5-6 Aristocrat skills.

For just using items to make him pose a threat, maybe give him a weapon that has a secondary effect when it strikes. In a game I ran a BBEG had an icicle that functioned as a +1 Frost Shortsword, and its first hit each round on a living target delivered a Flesh to Ice spell. Just accidentally touching the weapon would activate its effect, but the owner had an undead graft replacing the arm he wielded it with. That may be a bit too deadly for this guy, but it should open up some ideas.

Just an Aristocrat X/ (classes) Y build with high wealth, I'd go with the following:

Human, Aristocrat 6/ Dragonfire Adept 2/ Warblade 2/ Crusader 1
(taken Aristocrat 1/ Warblade 1/ Crusader 1/ Aristocrat 2/ Dragonfire Adept 2/ Aristocrat 3/ Warblade 1)
Str 18 (14 base, +4 enhancement)
Dex 20 (14 base, +6 enhancement)
Con 20 (14 base, +2 levels, +4 enhancement)
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 14

AC 31 (+9 armor, +5 shield, +2 natural, +5 dexterity)

Able Learner (H), Martial Study: Leading the Attack (1), Extra Granted Maneuver (3), Dragontouched (B), Entangling Exhalation (6), Martial Study: White Raven Tactics (9)
Skills: Pick whatever you think is fitting, considering he has Able Learner and a decent Int score.

Maneuvers Known:
Leading the Attack (1/encounter, no recovery mechanic)
Douse the Flames, Charging Minotaur, Stone Bones, Iron Heart Surge (Warblade, three readied)
Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike, White Raven Tactics (Crusader, all three readied, all three granted/refreshed every round)
Stances Known: Punishing Stance, Martial Spirit (active)
(Note that stances fulfill maneuver known prerequisites for higher level maneuvers, thus Punishing Stance permits Iron Heart Surge.)

Invocations:
Lightning Breath, See the Unseen (active)
His breath attack is a 15-ft. cone or a 30-ft. line of fire, or a 30-ft. line of electricity. Targets take one half of 1d6 damage (Reflex DC 14 half, minimum 1), and anyone damaged by it is entangled and takes an extra 1d6 damage per round of that same energy type for 1d4 rounds.

+4 Mithral Breastplate, +1 Armor Spikes; +2 Glaive; +2 Animated Darkwood Extreme Shield; Ring of Freedom of Movement; Third Eye: Clarity; Belt of Strength +4; Gloves of Dex +6; Periapt of Health +4; +5 Cloak of Resistance; Sandals of the Light Step; 7,832 gp remaining from 200k.

He should use White Raven Tactics on himself every round to act twice. Use entangling breaths to keep as many opponents as possible entangled. Breathe twice if he's not taking damage to entangle everyone or to put 1d6/round of both energy types on opponents. Crusader Strike and/or Stone Bones if he's taking damage and/or everyone is entangled. He can move and take a standard action, then White Raven Tactics to take another standard action and then move again, at 40 ft. base land speed and he's not hindered by difficult terrain. Opponents will be entangled, moving at half speed and unable to run or charge, plus other penalties, and their speed is halved again if moving on difficult terrain.

missmvicious
2011-12-17, 05:58 PM
How do you get that kind of stats?

Plus, you don't get Lesser Invocations, and thus flight, until level 6 of DFA. That was two, which just gets you a single breath effect.

The suit he's wearing in the notes gives you flight.

Pathguy doesn't have magic armor in it's selection, so I didn't bother adding it to the stats. Just reference the Magic Item Compendium pg 209 and read Regalia of the Phoenix. It'll explain everything.

He gets 2 breath weapons as an L2 Dragonfire Adept. But for shock and awe, one breath weapon is enough. It's just there in case the PCs start to underestimate their prey.

Little Brother
2011-12-17, 07:29 PM
Possibly make him a lycanthrope? A Human + Dire Lion werecreature would be fitting for a noble, though his Lion HD would be considerably more than his Aristocrat levels. Give him a high Int with Able Learner and he can have max ranks in 5-6 Aristocrat skills.That would be nice, but the ECL is far too high.

For just using items to make him pose a threat, maybe give him a weapon that has a secondary effect when it strikes. In a game I ran a BBEG had an icicle that functioned as a +1 Frost Shortsword, and its first hit each round on a living target delivered a Flesh to Ice spell. Just accidentally touching the weapon would activate its effect, but the owner had an undead graft replacing the arm he wielded it with. That may be a bit too deadly for this guy, but it should open up some ideas.Can you give me some book examples of that from books? I'd like to see how they did that.

Just an Aristocrat X/ (classes) Y build with high wealth, I'd go with the following:

Human, Aristocrat 6/ Dragonfire Adept 2/ Warblade 2/ Crusader 1
(taken Aristocrat 1/ Warblade 1/ Crusader 1/ Aristocrat 2/ Dragonfire Adept 2/ Aristocrat 3/ Warblade 1)
Str 18 (14 base, +4 enhancement)
Dex 20 (14 base, +6 enhancement)
Con 20 (14 base, +2 levels, +4 enhancement)
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 14

AC 31 (+9 armor, +5 shield, +2 natural, +5 dexterity)I'm not such a fan of DFA, and that's insufficient Aristocrat for my tastes, but I like it.

Able Learner (H), Martial Study: Leading the Attack (1), Extra Granted Maneuver (3), Dragontouched (B), Entangling Exhalation (6), Martial Study: White Raven Tactics (9)
Skills: Pick whatever you think is fitting, considering he has Able Learner and a decent Int score.

Maneuvers Known:
Leading the Attack (1/encounter, no recovery mechanic)
Douse the Flames, Charging Minotaur, Stone Bones, Iron Heart Surge (Warblade, three readied)
Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike, White Raven Tactics (Crusader, all three readied, all three granted/refreshed every round)
Stances Known: Punishing Stance, Martial Spirit (active)
(Note that stances fulfill maneuver known prerequisites for higher level maneuvers, thus Punishing Stance permits Iron Heart Surge.)I did NOT see the infinite WRT coming. Seriously, nice! Definitely awesome. Pro'lly gonna steal this.

+4 Mithral Breastplate, +1 Armor Spikes; +2 Glaive; +2 Animated Darkwood Extreme Shield; Ring of Freedom of Movement; Third Eye: Clarity; Belt of Strength +4; Gloves of Dex +6; Periapt of Health +4; +5 Cloak of Resistance; Sandals of the Light Step; 7,832 gp remaining from 200k.Ah, forgot to say, I thought of fighting with a rapier or longsword in one hand, the other empty. The idea is, he won't be equipped like he's going out on the field, the encounter will simply be in his manor/mansion/castle/whatever. So no shield, I think(Except for something like Dastana). Also, you can get more enhancement cheaper by using +x Mythril Breastplate and +x Chahar Aina.

By the way, flaws are fine. Does anyone know any good ones that shouldn't affect him? Fussy(Sickened when drinking a potion, or some such), and what else? What about traits?

He should use White Raven Tactics on himself every round to act twice. Use entangling breaths to keep as many opponents as possible entangled. Breathe twice if he's not taking damage to entangle everyone or to put 1d6/round of both energy types on opponents. Crusader Strike and/or Stone Bones if he's taking damage and/or everyone is entangled. He can move and take a standard action, then White Raven Tactics to take another standard action and then move again, at 40 ft. base land speed and he's not hindered by difficult terrain. Opponents will be entangled, moving at half speed and unable to run or charge, plus other penalties, and their speed is halved again if moving on difficult terrain.Beyond the DFA not working in the build, fluff mostly, it is amazing. I love this and am stealing it.

For items, overall, I'm thinking some form of rapier, pro'lly +3, +3 Mythril Breastplate and +3 Mythril Chahar-aina(Total of 44K), Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows(Unsure of usefulness, but damage is good 12k), Belt of Battle(Added to Belt of +4 Strength), same stat bonuses, +4 saves cloak, and the Sandal of the light feet, comes out to, by my count, 193K~

What do ya think?

Duncan_Ruadrik
2011-12-17, 08:31 PM
Im curious as to why this fellow must be an aristocrat? why not "X class" who also happens to be the bearer of a noble title? would that not be easier? just curious, haha.

Little Brother
2011-12-17, 08:45 PM
Im curious as to why this fellow must be an aristocrat? why not "X class" who also happens to be the bearer of a noble title? would that not be easier? just curious, haha.Because I've always liked the aristocrat class. It's cool.

Othesemo
2011-12-17, 08:48 PM
Im curious as to why this fellow must be an aristocrat? why not "X class" who also happens to be the bearer of a noble title? would that not be easier? just curious, haha.

This. Consider, for example, this comic. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html)

Just replace samurai with aristocrat, and you've got an accurate representation of your requirements. You could make him a wizard with high charisma and max ranks in knowledge (nobility and royalty). You could make him a rogue with maxed out social skills. Then, not only would he appear aristocratic, he would also be capable of even challenging a party less then six levels below him. As is, you're asking for a human with two class levels to be a legitimate challenge for a mid level, mid-to-high op party of four adventurers. Who, I might add, will presumably have time to prepare for the encounter with spells, items and such whereas he will have to fight with the contents of his living room.

Oh, and one other thing. Unless his corpse teleports away on death, you're going to have to deal with said group of adventurers gaining 200K of magic items in exchange for an easy fight.

Duncan_Ruadrik
2011-12-17, 08:55 PM
Because I've always liked the aristocrat class. It's cool.

granted, the concept is cool... but I would hardly call it a class. it has no class abilities that define it. Its got the same BAB as a rogue, bard, or cleric, but NOTHING in the way of class abilities. It is barely a class. its for NPC's. hence, NPC class.

IF you are REALLY set on it, cool. but there are easier ways to making a challenge for your party... step one, using an actual class with class abilities.

Little Brother
2011-12-17, 09:42 PM
granted, the concept is cool... but I would hardly call it a class. it has no class abilities that define it. Its got the same BAB as a rogue, bard, or cleric, but NOTHING in the way of class abilities. It is barely a class. its for NPC's. hence, NPC class.

IF you are REALLY set on it, cool. but there are easier ways to making a challenge for your party... step one, using an actual class with class abilities.Which is why I'm using it. Nearly every time I use a PC, I need to intervene to prevent a TPK. This makes it easier, because, really, unless you're going Cube, WBL-mancy has a VERY difficult time replacing non-monk/fighter/etc. classes.

And it does have class features, by the way. Decent hit dice, IIRC, decent BAB, decent saves, pretty good skills, and advances ML by 1/2. That's a lot, you know.

Need_A_Life
2011-12-17, 10:02 PM
As a theoretical exercise I can see this, but why not use, say... factotum? Rogue? Bard?
My inner munchkin says Swordsage, but it tends to do that these days. Apparently, it's obsessed.

How about a Facototum with Imperious Command and Master Poisoner? Throw de-buffs with your move action and stab people with your poisoned rapier on the other. Combat Expertise and Inspiration Points will help keep your AC up.
Things like Knowledge Devotion would give him some bonuses. Remember, humanoids are Knowledge (nature), so that's just a few skill points to make sure those pesky revolutionaries realize that it takes skill to stay on top.

Wings of Peace
2011-12-17, 10:04 PM
Okay, I need to build an NPC as a BBEG/BBNG, or at least a recurring antagonist.

The conditions:
I need him to be an aristocrat.
He's lawful, or at least lawful-leaning, and has a massive ego, and, therefor, fights alone. I want him to be able to handle a whole mid-high op low-mid level party.
MONEY! I want him to be rich(But not absurdly so. Feudal lord/noble, not 20th level adventurer), so WBL-mancy is going to be a big part.(I would actually, if possible, like to see two WBL lists, a regular one and a near-cube-level one(Though still not there, I want it winnable)).
I want my players to fear for their lives. I want this to be winnable, but I want it to be hard.


Be honest, are we building Iron Man?

Little Brother
2011-12-17, 10:08 PM
As a theoretical exercise I can see this, but why not use, say... factotum? Rogue? Bard?
My inner munchkin says Swordsage, but it tends to do that these days. Apparently, it's obsessed.

How about a Facototum with Imperious Command and Master Poisoner? Throw de-buffs with your move action and stab people with your poisoned rapier on the other. Combat Expertise and Inspiration Points will help keep your AC up.
Things like Knowledge Devotion would give him some bonuses. Remember, humanoids are Knowledge (nature), so that's just a few skill points to make sure those pesky revolutionaries realize that it takes skill to stay on top.Because I could easily kill my party with a factotum or rogue. A bard would just make them cry. An Aristocrat was the best way to do it. And, by the way, humans are Know:Local.

This is non-negotiable. Can we drop it now?

Be honest, are we building Iron Man?Beyond the fact that Tony Stark is most certainly chaotic? Pretty much. I'd call it closer to a non-magic Doctor Doom, but same difference.

deuxhero
2011-12-17, 10:14 PM
Diplomacy and synergy skills are class skills for aristocrat.

0Megabyte
2011-12-17, 11:27 PM
Be honest, are we building Iron Man?

...


...


...


Yes. Oh wow. I'm inspired.

---

Anyway, when I asked this question a good year ago, I got the same sorts of answers. "Don't use aristocrat, use something else!" was common. It really seems that this forum has a habit of, instead of seeing what can be done under restrictions, pushing for better classes. Don't play monk, play something else, etc.

But of course you and I know that aristocrat is sub-optimal. But that's the point, and that's the hard thing to understand: The desire to use a sub-optimal thing, knowing it's sub-optimal, and making the best of it.

Of course, this is FAR from everyone, and even in many of those for whom this is a tendency, it's more of a passing statement, at which point they follow through with interesting help.

---

Now, here's my suggestion: If this guy gets hit, he's dead. He doesn't have the chutzpah to stand toe to toe with the PC's in a fair fight. In reality, he's not PC material, and what's more important is that he knows it. He doesn't have the stamina (hit points), he doesn't have the willpower (saves), he doesn't have the combat skills (BAB), he doesn't have the moves (bonus feats) and he doesn't have the talent (class features). And once again, he knows this.

But his only advantage is that he can break wealth by level.

So, let's look at it from his perspective: He's got people gunning for him who, individually, vastly outclass him. And they're coming as a group.

So what does he need?

1.) He needs to not get hit.

2.) He needs to be able to incapacitate enemies as quickly as possible. Killing them isn't important, incapacitating is.

3.) He needs speed.

4.) He needs to even the odds.

So, let's go one by one, shall we?

1.) Let's be clear, he needs mobility, miss chances, better saving throws and a means to escape.

First, you need a ring of blink for 50% miss chance. You need boots of swift passage to quickly get away without provoking an attack of opportunity. You need either a minor cloak of displacement or a phoenix cloak. (Or, if you're cheaper, a cloak of the dragon when it comes to flight.)

You also need either third eye clarity (cheap) or banner of the Storm's Eye to deal with stun/daze. If you get the latter, also get third eye

You also need a Vest of Free Movement. Or else a third eye freedom, if your face slot is still free. Third Eye Freedom is better, to be frank, because it's an immediate action.

Btw, you also want a ring of spell-battle. Immediate action dispel magic if you beat the (untrained) spellcraft check. Woo hoo!

You also want a belt of battle, first for extra initiative, so that you don't get hit... and also for the extra actions it grants. Because you have no time. More on that in a moment.

So far we have two rings, a belt, shoulders, boots, head and face, assuming you go with the rings of spell-battle and blink, the belt of battle, third eye freedom, banner of the storm's eye, cloak of the dragon and boots of swift passage.

This leaves arms, hands, torso, throat, armor, and weapons.

For armor, the abilities you want are glamoured (because he's an aristocrat!), speed (for swift action haste), fortification (light if you're on a budget and blew most of your money on the ring of blink), displacement, ghost ward, the greater iron ward diamond crystal for some cheap DR 5.

Your weapon should have Lucky, Paralyzing, Venomous, Warning, Impaling. These let you reroll once per day, paralyze an enemy once per day, do strength damage three times a day, give you +5 to your initiative, and let you treat your attack as a touch attack three times a day. Oh, and add a crystal of energy assault too, for a cheap +1d6 damage.

But to really fight, you need some tools. Once you're in the air, and blinking and whatnot, you can do such things as throw an Aberrant Orb to get a monster on the ground to help you, a bag of holding for the lulz, and maybe a necklace of fireballs or something. Also, an eversmoking bottle.

Basically, you need to be annoying. Hard to hit, flying places, obscuring vision, and causing annoying effects.

Does anyone else have an ideas? Any good items, preferably not TOO expensive, that cause status effects and make the battle more difficult for the PC's?

missmvicious
2011-12-18, 02:02 AM
How do you get that kind of stats?


Which stats are you referring to?

I got the Ability Scores from the High Power Array, and went for broke on INT so he'd gut butt loads of skill points. Then I stacked them for Synergy into all the CHA based skills so he could do things like:
Feint (Bluff)
Create a Diversion to Hide (Bluff)
Auto-Diplomat his way out of battle in case it looks like he's going to lose. (Diplomacy)
or Demoralize an opponent (Intimidate)

I also made it so that he would be pretty decent at using scrolls and other magic items.

He's a bit squishy, but after you add his AC bonuses from his Regalia, he should be pretty butch. Also, based on the description of a Noble's Outfit, you come equipped with gems that could be enchanted to give a variety of spell resistances, damage reductions, luck bonuses, dodge bonuses... basically turn him into a wall. Plus there's nothing saying his signet ring can't also be a Ring of Three Wishes. I mean... you've got the GP for it.

kulosle
2011-12-18, 08:25 AM
while i have nothing to add I would like to say that I thoroughly enjoy optimizing sub-optimal classes.

Aharon
2011-12-18, 08:41 AM
Aristocrat levels only add 1/2 CR, so he will have two times the levels the PCs have. This can make him a dangerous foe. They can ride well, so give him the feat line for mounted charging and a suitable monster which is his mount as cohort.

Added Bonus: It fits well with the imagery of nobility - charging in on a (dragon/pegasus/whatever) in shining armour...

missmvicious
2011-12-18, 02:06 PM
while i have nothing to add I would like to say that I thoroughly enjoy optimizing sub-optimal classes.

I second that. Actually, build 'em right and even a Commoner can have a go at high CR campaigns, or so I've heard.

Still, I'm pretty bad at optimizing. I usually build a one or two class character and fill the gaps with magic items, like the build I have for this Aristocrat. Most of my "optimizing" comes from Skill Synergy, taking Flaws, min-maxing, group strategy, Spell Combos, and the old "all resources + effective application = win" theory that seems to work well enough in low to mid power campaigns.

Of course, that's the spirit of the NPC, isn't it? Fluff-wise, they shouldn't be as optimized as an adventurer. They don't dedicate their entire lives to honing their skills to perfection like PC classes do. Instead, they have jobs, families, social events, and bills to pay. A Commoner doesn't have time to learn how to dual-wield pick-axes. She's got a bar to tend, or a field to plow, and a family waiting at home that need diapers changed and meals cooked. If an NPC becomes powerful enough to become a PC class, then it's probably because they shirked all their mundane duties to focus on the skill sets required for their class.

Hmm... that's a good backstory actually. Maybe a Level 2 Commoner; her children were killed by a wondering Ogre, and she and her husband were helpless to stop it. Vowing revenge on the monster (let's get psychotic with it) maybe even the whole Ogre race, she trains to become a Ranger with Favored Enemy: Giant. Her husband, equally distressed by the tragedy, but also fearful for his wife's safety and sanity worships day and night in the temple of Pelor until he feels to call to become a Cleric... the perfect way to guide and protect her increasingly unstable wife.

jaybird
2011-12-18, 02:31 PM
Aristocrat levels only add 1/2 CR, so he will have two times the levels the PCs have. This can make him a dangerous foe. They can ride well, so give him the feat line for mounted charging and a suitable monster which is his mount as cohort.

Added Bonus: It fits well with the imagery of nobility - charging in on a (dragon/pegasus/whatever) in shining armour...

Speaking of that...might I suggest this PrC?

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Aerial_Cavalier_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)

An Aristo with an Elder Dragon is considerably more dangerous then an Aristo :smallwink:

hex0
2011-12-18, 03:14 PM
Merchant Prince (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060308a&page=4) may work. Not strong but may fit the flavor. Money, power, influence...

The Gilded Duke
2011-12-18, 04:37 PM
Okay, lets see Aristocrat, there are some things to work with here.
First off, as it is an npc class, the CR is going to be at -1 when compared to using PC class levels. This means that your aristocrat is usually going to have more hit dice then the players, especially if you want to make it a higher cr encounter. This also means that they get access to higher equipment values.

Money:

Since this is supposed to be a rich aristocrat, lets assume maximum starting gold of 480. Then we add to that the standard equipment value of an npc.

CR 8 12,000 gp
CR 9 16,000 gp
CR 10 21,000 gp
CR 11 27,000 gp

And that is before any item creation, guild or house membership, stronghold, mercantile background or anything else.


Noble Dragon:

Polymorph any Object at CL 16 only costs 1,280.
Get changed into a Young Red Dragon
Worship a Sovereign Archetype (Dragons of Eberron)
Enter Xorvintal, the Great Game of Dragons (MM V)

Being a Xorvintal Dragon gives you a 100 mile Telepathy communication with other Xorvintal Dragons.
Immunity to Divination when it comes to future actions.
+1 Insight bonus on saving throws
Lose the ability to cast spells
Lose SR
Make Xorvintal Minions, Charm them, telapathically communicate with them and scry on them
Gain one Xorvintal Ability, pick up Alternate Form


You can now use Alternate Form to appear like you usually do.

Sovereign Archetypes are most famous for Loredrake. Basically.. as a dragon you choose to worship one of the Divines of Eberron. You change your normal spellcasting focus into a different form. Loredrake doesn't suit our purposes as we are giving up spellcasting for Xorvintal, others work much better.

Probably the most useful one is Wyrm of War, which requires you to worship either Dol Dorn, The Mockery, or the Traveler. Wyrm of War gain proficiency in all martial weapons, all armor, all shields, and a fighter bonus feat for every 4HD.

At CR 11 (12 Aristocrat levels) this gives you 3 bonus feats. You might as well pick up Mindsight to take advantage of your 100 mile telepathy.



Knowledge Noble

Aristocrat just screams Knowledge Devotion.
Human Aristocrat even more so.
Lets assume an Intelligence of 14
7 skill points a level
Use 3 of those skill points on knowledge skills
Lets say, Knowledge Local, Knowledge Arcana, Knowledge Nature
By 12th level thats 15 ranks in each.

The real goal though is gaining rank in the Knowledge Domain Church (Complete Champion). Pick up the landlord feat and use your landlord money to build a schools that you teach at. (nothing says nobles can't be honorary professors). Pick up Skill Focus Knowledge Local. Landlord gives you 100k to build schools with, lets say you build 4 at 25k each.

Character level +6 Affiliation
Knowledge Skills +9 Affiliation
Skill focus +1 Affiliation
Founds four schools +16

This gives you an affiliation score of 32 giving you access to all Knowledge Domain Church abilities. +2 Bonus on Knowledge Local. 1/day +2 insight to stuff. And the most important ability 1/day negate a single ability of a creature you have discovered with a knowledge check for one minute. Fort save is 10 + Character Level + Int. So at the very least a DC 22 fort save.

Hit the mage with it to negate spellcasting.


Also for knowledge devotion, you have a +22 on Knowledge local checks before equipment, which should help you overcome your weaker attack bonus.

Gavinfoxx
2011-12-18, 04:50 PM
Here are some plausible 'aristocrat' classes:

Aristocrat
Expert
Noble
Savant
Bard
Beguiler
Factotum

Remember, the aristocracy were often Knights, so Paladin or Knight or whatever mounted class would work too.

Telonius
2011-12-18, 04:58 PM
If you can fit it in, at all, I'd give him the Leadership feat. This guy is just begging for an Alfred.

Waker
2011-12-18, 05:07 PM
I'd say grab a few levels of Binder and put on Paimon for Dance of Death, pump your Tumble up a bit higher (Paimon already gives you +6 from Paimon's Dexterity and Skills) and run past the party for free hits on them all. The damage can be upped a bit higher if you take lvls in Scout for Skirmish damage.

Almost forgot, you would need to grab Improved Bind Vestige in order to bind Paimon with just a dip.

Human Paragon 3
2011-12-18, 05:49 PM
Unless I am mistaken, Aristocrat's combination of skills and martial weapon proficiency qualifies him for a lot of great PrCs.

Spymaster jumps to mind, especially if your party has good divination tactics at their disposal. I would also refer you to the Joker Bard for tactics.

EDIT: Person man has a great Iron Man prestige class. I'd suggest PMing him.

kulosle
2011-12-18, 06:48 PM
So how serious do you want this character to be? There are builds out there, like the one posted in my sig as wasy, that would make great aristocrat. I personally think a basket weaver would be amazing here.

hydraa
2011-12-19, 12:10 PM
For those of you wanting to find out where his wealth comes from it can be from his cohort and followers. I created a 1st level expert that can make about 16K GP a year (poision crafting) or more if he reinvests in himself. A pure crafter (armor, sword, etc) could make about 1000 a year and a pure performer could make about 1225 a year.

Leadership score of 14 would net this guy at least 15 followers. So his Rent a jester buisness could net him probably 150000 a year.

Creating a optimized lv1 expert crafter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223005)