Ways to increase sneak attack dice? (3.5)

[killem2]

I have a rogue in my party who has been looking for ways to increase the Hit die used for sneak attacks.

Is there anything to do that say to a d8 or larger?

Or maybe ways to make it more powerful?

Thanks!

[Lonely Tylenol]

The Craven feat adds one damage per character level to Sneak Attack dice, which is equivalent to 1d6+2. This increases your friend's average Sneak Attack damage from 3.5 per dice rolled (the average for a d6 roll) to 5.5 per dice rolled, which is effectively equivalent to rolling d10s instead.

As far as increasing the number of dice, dipping is your best bet. A level in Spellthief is an extra 1d6 sneak attack dice for a one-level investment (which is more efficient than the two-level investment you need to advance full Sneak Attack progression, if only for getting you a level ahead). If your friend is evil, Assassin has full Sneak Attack progression, but you can always just take a one-level dip in it if you'd like, which would give your friend +1d6 Sneak Attack dice plus access to the Critical Strike spell, a first-level Assassin spell with a swift-action casting that adds +1d6 to your roll, doubles your threat range and gives you +4 to your rolls to confirm critical threats.

[Treblain]

Do you really want to increase the die size? Everyone has lots of d6s. People who aren't gamers and geometry nerds recognize d6s, while they just stare in amazement at the sheer concept of different-shaped dice. You'd run out of d8s whenever you need to roll sneak attack damage. :smallsigh:

Ways to make it more powerful:


Craven, feat from Champions of Ruin. Each sneak attack deals extra damage equal to your character level.
Assassin's Stance, Tome of Battle. +2d6 sneak attack, available through Swordsage dip or Martial Stance feat.
Go dip-crazy. Sneak Attack Fighter, Spellthief, Ninja, Unseen Seer, Nightsong Enforcer, Assassin.... just pile 1-level dips of classes that give +1d6.
Increase the number of attacks you get. It doesn't matter if they do much damage so long as you can pile Sneak Attack on them. Haste, Rapid Shot, TWF, natural attacks, Snap Kick...

[hushblade]

I think there's something in pathfinder that makes a dagger sneak attack dice to d8, and all else is d4. Could be wrong though.

[Big Fau]

Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance, Bo9S) adds +2d6.
Deadly weapon enhancement (MiC) adds +1d6.
Bracers of the Hunter (SoX) adds +1d6.
Rogue's Vest (MiC) adds +1d6.

Any effect that grants extra attacks/round helps.

[killem2]

Thanks for the advice I'll show this too him. As far as running out of d8's he's got a lot of bulk dice :P

[Rethmar]

Sacred Strike from the Book of Exalted Deeds makes your sneak attacks d8s against evil creatures.

[Flickerdart]

Hunter's Eye (PHBII) is a 2nd level Ranger spell that gives you +Xd6 SA, where X is 1/3 your caster level. If you can finagle it onto your build somehow, it's possible to get huge returns on the amount of dice you add.

[Demon of Death]

I think there's something in pathfinder that makes a dagger sneak attack dice to d8, and all else is d4. Could be wrong though.

There is, it's an archetype, Knife Master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/knife-master)
plus, and once I can find them, there are feats that increase the die size of Sneak Attack.

EDIT: Ok, found one of them, it's in the book "Traps and Treachery 1" By Legend Lairs, so it's 3rd Party, and it's 3.0, but take it how you will. The feat is Improved Sneak Attack
Improved Sneak Attack
[General]
You can make exceptionally precise and lethal
sneak attacks.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +2 or higher,
ability to sneak attack.
Benefit: Your bonus damage for sneak attacks
is 1d8 at 1st Level and an additional 1d8 every
two levels thereafter. This extra damage is not
multiplied if you score a critical hit with a
sneak attack.
Normal: Rogues without this feat receive 1d6
bonus damage for sneak attacks at I st level and
an additional 1d6 every two levels thereafter.

Found it as well, it's in the Mercenaries Book from AEG,
And here is it's text:

Improved Sneak Attack [General]
You can make exceptionally precise and lethal sneak
attacks.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +2 or higher, ability
to sneak attack (includes ambush and surprise attacks).
Benefit: Your bonus damage for sneak attacks increases
by one die type. If your sneak attack damage is d4s, it
now increases to d6s; d6s increase to d8s, and so on.

And they are both OGL so I'm fine doing that, in case anyone was wondering.
A game I played in had the rouge doing d12 sneak attack with daggers and d8's with everything else.

[Godskook]

Hunter's Eye (PHBII) is a 2nd level Ranger spell that gives you +Xd6 SA, where X is 1/3 your caster level. If you can finagle it onto your build somehow, it's possible to get huge returns on the amount of dice you add.

Conjurer 1/Unseen Seer 10 is incredibly easy to tack onto any Rogue build, since the only skill that's not 'standard' for Rogues is Spellcraft, and you can pick that up during your wizard level. And with 4 dice over 11 levels, you're only 1.5 dice behind normal, without the spell. Both Daggerspell Mage(d6 HD and can deliver touch spells through dagger attacks) and Arcane Trickster(SA every other level) make good additions to such a build as well.

[Coidzor]

Do you really want to increase the die size? Everyone has lots of d6s. People who aren't gamers and geometry nerds recognize d6s, while they just stare in amazement at the sheer concept of different-shaped dice. You'd run out of d8s whenever you need to roll sneak attack damage. :smallsigh:

Eh? :smallconfused: dice are cheap and even if there's a shortage amongst the assembled group there's always dice rolling programs/online services.

[Ashram]

Bracers of Murder from Drow of the Underdark give you more damage while attacking flat-footed or flanked creatures (+2 attack and damage against such) and let you reroll any roll of 1 on a sneak attack damage die.

The original Deadly Precision weapon enhancement was a +2 and granted 2d6 sneak attack, but I can't remember where it's from. Assassination from the Cityscape web enhancement also gives another 1d6 precision damage (Including sneak attack) and a cool bonus to poison DCs equal to the enhancement bonus of your weapon for +1.

If your DM is allowing it, in Pathfinder if you worship a certain demon lord you eventually get an additional 3d6 sneak attack and +2 damage per sneak attack die if the attack was made with a slashing weapon...

...At 20th level.

[Coidzor]

The original Deadly Precision weapon enhancement was a +2 and granted 2d6 sneak attack, but I can't remember where it's from.

Seems to be from Complete Adventurer from my googling into it.

[Keegan__D]

Hunter's Eye (PHBII) is a 2nd level Ranger spell that gives you +Xd6 SA, where X is 1/3 your caster level. If you can finagle it onto your build somehow, it's possible to get huge returns on the amount of dice you add.

At level 8 (ranger gets to prepare a single second-level spell, assuming he has a Wis of 14), the ranger would have a caster level of 4. It only adds 1 sneak attack die. Add Practiced Spellcaster, and it's still only 2d6. 20th level is only 4d6.

[Flickerdart]

At level 8 (ranger gets to prepare a single second-level spell, assuming he has a Wis of 14), the ranger would have a caster level of 4. It only adds 1 sneak attack die. Add Practiced Spellcaster, and it's still only 2d6. 20th level is only 4d6.
You'd be surprised how many Ranger-only spells are terrible for Rangers and great for pretty much everyone else.

[motoko's ghost]

I think there was a feat in a 3.0 sourcebook called improved sneak attack that increased them to d8s

EDIT: whoops didnt see it stuck in that spoiler tag

[Zeta Kai]

Well, the Build Team made a feat for such a thing in the Hourglass of Zihaja project, Improved Sneak Attack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10081400#post10081400). Copied below, for the curious:


Improved Sneak Attack [General]
You are adept at dealing damage with a sneak attack.

Prerequisite: Sneak Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/rogue.htm#sneakAttack) class feature, BAB +3

Benefit: When making a sneak attack, the damage you deal to an opponent with a successful hit is d8-based.

Normal: Extra damage dealt using a sneak attack is d6-based.

Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. If taken twice, the damage you deal to an opponent is d10-based. If taken 3 times, the damage you deal to an opponent is d12-based. You cannot take this feat more than 3 times.

[Coidzor]

Did you guys greatly alter how readying an action works or is that as meh as it sounds due to its dependence on readied actions? :smallconfused:

[Godskook]

Seems to be from Complete Adventurer from my googling into it.

Complete Adventurer does indeed have the +2 version of Deadly Precision, page 127.

[Yuki Akuma]

At level 8 (ranger gets to prepare a single second-level spell, assuming he has a Wis of 14), the ranger would have a caster level of 4. It only adds 1 sneak attack die. Add Practiced Spellcaster, and it's still only 2d6. 20th level is only 4d6.

Now, instead of Ranger, invest in levels of Chameleon instead. Much higher caster level. o.o

With ten levels of Chameleon, you can cast Ranger spells with a caster level of 20 (as opposed to the caster level of 5 you'd get from ten levels of Ranger). Hello 6d6 Sneak Attack!

[kulosle]

or you could take a level of prestigious ranger to add it to any divine casters list.

[Godskook]

At level 8 (ranger gets to prepare a single second-level spell, assuming he has a Wis of 14), the ranger would have a caster level of 4. It only adds 1 sneak attack die. Add Practiced Spellcaster, and it's still only 2d6. 20th level is only 4d6.

An Arcane rogue via Unseen Seer gets CL >= HD fairly easily, and can pick this up at Unseen Seer 2.

[Keegan__D]

An Arcane rogue via Unseen Seer gets CL >= HD fairly easily, and can pick this up at Unseen Seer 2.

Now that is most excellent.

[Zeta Kai]

Did you guys greatly alter how readying an action works or is that as meh as it sounds due to its dependence on readied actions? :smallconfused:

That was old, bad legacy text. It has been fixed, in all iterations. The improved dice apply to all uses of SA now.

[hex0]

At level 8 (ranger gets to prepare a single second-level spell, assuming he has a Wis of 14), the ranger would have a caster level of 4. It only adds 1 sneak attack die. Add Practiced Spellcaster, and it's still only 2d6. 20th level is only 4d6.

Ridiculous: Illumian Rogue 1/Trickster Spellthief 1/Rokugan Ninja 1/Psychic Rogue 1/SA Fighter 1/Chameleon 1 with practiced spellcaster (spellthief and chameleon) and Master Spellthief can cast Hunter's eye and have a total sneak attack of 10d6 at sixth level

Also Hunter's Eye doesn't have caster level cap. :smallwink:

You can play a Prestige Ranger and pick up Hunter's Eye much sooner than a regular ranger can as well. And probably cast it better.

[NeoSeraphi]

I can understand taking levels of both rogue and SA fighter, but...rogue and psychic rogue? That seems unfair. That's like crossing the "don't take the first level of the same class twice" line.

[hex0]

I can understand taking levels of both rogue and SA fighter, but...rogue and psychic rogue? That seems unfair. That's like crossing the "don't take the first level of the same class twice" line.

Oh I know. Just trying to be absurd.

The best way other than dipping everything in sneak attack is still to caster level stack casting of Hunter's Eye.

Edit: Spellthief (preferably Trickster Spellthief) or Beguiler can pick up via Unseen Seer for example then go to Arcane Trickster, Daggerspell Magre or Spellwarp Sniper for example.

[killem2]

Geeze, so many ways LOL.

I dunno how far he's going to go with all your suggestions, but I know he really wants to role play a dagger obsessed, rogue, who worships every god he can get an idol for.

He really wants to be an invisible blade, and possibly a master thrower, but is considering going fighter for a few levels.

These are some bad ass suggestions. Simply amazing.

So if you have any ideas that deal with daggers, that's going to be the sole weapon/weapons he uses.

He currently has 12 of them on him strapped into a bandolier haha.

[Flickerdart]

If he can get some casting stapled on to the build, persistent blade (SpC) will grant him a magical flying dagger that attacks enemies while also flanking them for him. It's a 1st level spell and offers no save, but it only lasts rounds/level - so he'll want to finagle a caster level of at least 5 to make the most of it. Cloud of Knives (PHBII) is another fun dagger-themed spell.

[Snowbluff]

2 levels in expert, 1 in warrior in UA. Replace all three feats with Sneak Attack (reg, imp, and greater). 9d6 in 3 levels. They require Hide and Moves silently (4, 11, then 18, I think).

[kulosle]

If he's gong invisible blade you should be nice and ignore the errata.

[killem2]

If he's gong invisible blade you should be nice and ignore the errata.

Should not be hard, I didn't know there was one. LOL

[Dazed&Confused]

If he follows the way of the Unseen Seer, would be damn cool to get Improved Familiar, buff the hell out of it and use it for easy flanking. It's better than summoned monsters and better than summoning a monster(since it's at least a standard action and lasts for round/level), so, while it's not exactly raising the number of dice on each attack, it might allow you more sneaks. But if you really want dice, perhaps you could even find a way of letting the familiar cast Hunter's Eye aswell, which would be stupid nice. I suggest the character's name to be iFlank. :smalltongue:

[lunar2]

book of roguish luck has a feat that gives +1d6 sneak attack damage, and can be taken multiple times. iirc, the only prereq was having 2d6 sneak attack damage.

[Big Fau]

book of roguish luck has a feat that gives +1d6 sneak attack damage, and can be taken multiple times. iirc, the only prereq was having 2d6 sneak attack damage.

And is 3rd party.

[killem2]

And is 3rd party.

3rd party as in home brew or just a published work?

[Ashram]

Well, the Build Team made a feat for such a thing in the Hourglass of Zihaja project, Improved Sneak Attack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10081400#post10081400). Copied below, for the curious:

Except in a high-op game, no sane DM would ever allow this feat. Especially if any extra sneak attack damage you add to it automatically gets bumped up to the higher die.

[Siosilvar]

3rd party as in home brew or just a published work?

Homebrew would be 2nd party, and there was a title given ("Book of Roguish Luck"), so that'd be a non-WotC book.

[Flickerdart]

Homebrew would be 2nd party, and there was a title given ("Book of Roguish Luck"), so that'd be a non-WotC book.
Homebrew isn't a party at all. 2nd party conventionally refers to a publication released by a related company (for instance, Super Smash Bros is a 2nd party game because HAL Labs is closely associated with Nintendo). Not even Dragonlance is 2nd party, those are licensed 3rd party books.

[Zeta Kai]

Except in a high-op game, no sane DM would ever allow this feat. Especially if any extra sneak attack damage you add to it automatically gets bumped up to the higher die.

I fail to see why a high-op DM would care, considering how easy it is to obviate SA & how precious feats are to a character. I doubt a high-op; player would really be buying this feat even once, let alone 2 or more times. And if that's what they wanna do, why not let 'em? If you're relying on SA to do your dirty work in a high-op game, I doubt the kind of die that they are is gonna be much of an issue anyway. Each die increase is only an average of +1 to damage per die; that's not broken by any stretch, at any level.

[deuxhero]

Homebrew isn't a party at all. 2nd party conventionally refers to a publication released by a related company (for instance, Super Smash Bros is a 2nd party game because HAL Labs is closely associated with Nintendo). Not even Dragonlance is 2nd party, those are licensed 3rd party books.

No, Nintendo owns Hal. 2nd party=Created by outside, unowned studio but published by and material owned by (Golden Sun, Chibi Robo, Custom Robo, Giest, Eternal Darkness and kinda-sorta Pokemon, Nintendo owns 1/3 and owns flat out a company with another 3rd, but GF is independent are examples for Nintendo).

Well, 2nd party has no real legal definition as it mostly a term for ease of use.

[Flickerdart]

Ah right, Pokemon is the one I was thinking of. Derp.

[killem2]

book of roguish luck has a feat that gives +1d6 sneak attack damage, and can be taken multiple times. iirc, the only prereq was having 2d6 sneak attack damage.

I just read this, you can only take the feat once according to the book.

[Dr.Orpheus]

And when you have all that sneak attack grab a +1 crescent knife of speed or have the caster polymorph you into a hydra then you deal that sneak attack damage as many times as you can per turn.