Worlds largest dungeon

[littlebottom]

a friend of mine owns worlds largest dungeon, he tried to run it a couple times with different groups of people, and now he has, a couple years later brought it up and i said "yeah, it would be fun to play" but he didnt want to run, so i went "well i guess its all already written out for you, i guess i could run it" he chucked the books my way today, as i dont have any D&D 3rd ed or 3.5 (he said do it in 3.5)

but here comes my problem, i have played 3.5 a while back and it was when i was just starting to get into roleplay, but since then we have been playing all sorts of other systems, and 4th ed, so 1, i dont know 3.5 very well at all, let alone from a GM point of view, so any advice is appreciated as i begin to read the books, and 2 any advice on worlds largest that i should know before i decide to run it or not.

IF i run it, it will be once every 2 weeks most likely and i have GMed several times before so general GMing is fine.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

well, be sure to be organized, the Worlds largest dungeon is a sprawling dungeon, but so is the book that contains it. be aware your party may not go exactly in the order of areas the book describes.

However, as long as you stay organized, cross reference with the DMG and MM, you should be set. be confident, Dm'ing a preset campaign is easy. relax. :smallwink:

[motoko's ghost]

Is the worlds largest dungeon the adventure module thats over a thousand pages long?
I seem to recall It starts at lv1 and works it way up to epic without ever leaving the one dungeon.

[littlebottom]

Is the worlds largest dungeon the adventure module thats over a thousand pages long?
I seem to recall It starts at lv1 and works it way up to epic without ever leaving the one dungeon.

yeah, thats the one. im not toooo worried about the dungeon itself, i guess im more worried about GMing 3.5 when i dont really know 3.5, ive played enough roleplays that most of it i can see in the book is common sense mind.

just general tips would be nice, like at what rate should i level the players up, i mean i could do it strict exp wise, but that would mean they might level up too fast or too slow as they move one area to the next since if they miss out loads and end up fighting tougher monsters because they went a short route, they are going to die, and if they hang around one area ages and clear it out completly, then they will fly through the next areas without a challenge.

things like that, and any general 3.5 tips would be appreciated.

also, talk about worlds largest in here, i dont mind, its fun! :smalltongue:

[motoko's ghost]

just level them up to the point where the are at the minimum needed for the next area.

The book already covers most of the other stuff you might need

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

well, it certainly doesnt give you a GUIDE as to when you should allow people to level up... I played it once. We had quite a time of it, being as that I dont think we leveled fast enough.

Also... TRAPS. everywhere. it sucks. I was playing as a rogue. I ended up playing the game more than anyone else, just searching for traps. When the cleric got tired of waiting for me, she died. literally, mere rounds later.

The party NEEDS a dedicated trapfinder. sad, but true.

[motoko's ghost]

You think the traps in that were bat, you see deadly games source book.

It has stretchs that go CR2,CR3(nothing that actually hurts) then a 100ft pit trap that hits you 5d4 times with logswords, also the bottom is lava and will wash you into a pit to the first layer of hell. and those are just the traps:smalleek:

[BobVosh]

be aware your party may not go exactly in the order of areas the book describes.

QFT
Just be aware that it may feel like they are plotting to go through in the hardest method possible for you. Embrace this hatred and strike them down.

Also in the spirit of the dungeon let them go level up purely by EXP. You aren't playing WLD for RP, so hit them with hardcore hack and slash. Have some areas too high level just based on how much they skip. I think the module is very good about giving exp totals so stick to it as much as possible.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Its also somewhat difficult to add new character when an old one dies... kinda hard to explain why there's a new PC just wandering around this huge dungeon alone. the whole "teleportation doesn't work" thing kinda throws it off... means they had to walk in, basically, or have been stuck down there already. It was definitely a hassle for our group when people died, which happened a decent amount.

[Calanon]

the worlds largest dungeon is in itself a world, we call it "The Elemental Plane of Earth" (read the description and tell me its not a Dungeon)

[Flickerdart]

Its also somewhat difficult to add new character when an old one dies... kinda hard to explain why there's a new PC just wandering around this huge dungeon alone. the whole "teleportation doesn't work" thing kinda throws it off... means they had to walk in, basically, or have been stuck down there already. It was definitely a hassle for our group when people died, which happened a decent amount.
Every introduced character has their backstory end with "and then one night, Sam and I went out drinking, and that's all I remember between then and now", and comes with an orange plastic wizard's hat.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Every introduced character has their backstory end with "and then one night, Sam and I went out drinking, and that's all I remember between then and now", and comes with an orange plastic wizard's hat.

LOLZ. basically, yes.

[Gavinfoxx]

Well... remember, Worlds Largest Dungeon has a HUGE list of really crazy and bizarre houserules and stuff. If you are playing in the game or running the game, here are some things to worry about:




1.) For characters that can invest resources in 'burrowing', 'earthgliding', and 'burrowing through stone' (there are several ways to do this, including Wild Shaping into a Thoqqua, for example, which specifically also leaves a usable tunnnel...), are the use of their abilities nerfed? IE, are inner room walls impervious as *well as* the obviously impervious outer walls? IE, will player characters sometimes be able to scout or bypass rooms in this way?
2.) For characters who invest in being able to do things with crafting materials, will the DM be using the standard lack of crafting supplies in this dungeon? Or will supplies be found, or will you be able to convert GP value in items to generic crafting supplies at a particular ratio with a particular amount of time?
3.) For characters who can replace animal companions or such things via summoning them, either a few times a day or via a 24 hour ritual, will those abilities work as advertised? What if characters want to release your existing animal companion and summon a new one? What about the magical paladin pokeball-mounts? Will those work normally?
4.) For characters that invest in short range teleports, or becoming etherial, or things like that, do those work as advertised? At least for interior areas?
5.) For characters that expect to be able to Take 10 or Take 20 on skills, do those work as in the PHB?
6.) For characters that invest in having access to, say, an Extended Rope Trick at level 5, does that work as advertised, to get access to a safe space? What are your rulings on Extradimensional or nondimensional spaces working in the dungeon? What if a Wizard wants to actually scribe scrolls, will the DM be handwaving the exotic inks necessary to do so? Maybe just subtract a GP worth of value of loot to do this? What if an Easy Bake Wizard (it's a named build using a few combinations of techniques) wants to spend some time scribing scrolls to his brain by burning incenses, will those be placed as treasure?
7.) Will the DM be making intelligent adjustments to the 'security' of rooms or wandering monster based issues based on intelligent barricading techniques? Will the DM be enforcing the 'most locations are very dangerous and have hourly wandering monster rolls' rule? What if the party attempts to barricade themselves in one of the rooms that is NOT specifically marked as an obvious saferoom?
8.) Will the DM be changing the treasure of the module? Most of the treasure of the module is supposedly completely useless -- ie, 'art', or 'not equipment' sorts of things, or things that doesn't actually HELP, or things too large to be taken, and thus doesn't actually help the party. Alternately, is the DM relaxing the restrictions on the feat 'Ancestral Relic', ie, it's the only real way to appropriately sacrifice the crappy treasure (like a huge amount of material you can't change to useful gear because it's too big) to make useful equipment, maybe give it out as a bonus feat or not make it 'good aligned only'? Is this feat suggested or appropriate for this particular campaign of World's Largest Dungeon?
9.) The module suggests completely banning the entire category of 'battlefield control' spells from the game, and mentions that they will not be placed in the game. Typically, a few pages later, a Web scroll is given out as treasure. Are there any house rules on battlefield control spells?

[hex0]

The party NEEDS a dedicated trapfinder. sad, but true.

Factotum 3/Psychic Rogue 2/Trapsmith 5 to start? :smallbiggrin:

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Factotum 3/Psychic Rogue 2/Trapsmith 5 to start? :smallbiggrin:

That would be good, actually. I think when I ran it... my first rogue was a Rogue/Swashbuckler... he died... Then I had a ranger 1/Rogue X... and he died... then I made a duskblade... he died, the cleric died (again) and the necromancer died. Not making another rogue was a mistake.

So I made another rogue 1/Wizard 1/Rogue X, played it MORE paranoid than I usually do, to the point I was I was making search, listen, and spot checks every ten feet, and making another set of checks AFTER I had found and disabled a trap. Listen and search checks at every door, every corner, every stop. IF there was a dead body, or ANYTHING laying on the floor, it was poked with a longspear before anyone got near.

The game slowed to a crawl, but after that, the party never had another death or major injury from a trap. That rogue made it through the rest of the game, everyone else had multiple deaths after that. I think our DM wasn't giving us enough exp. however, so.... *shrug*

[Gavinfoxx]

Well the game specifically says you are supposed to get XP at a lower rate than usual.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Well the game specifically says you are supposed to get XP at a lower rate than usual.

yes, and I dont mind slow leveling... but we had quite a few deaths. I expected mine: being a trapfinder is dangerous work. But the other people? sure, they weren't optimized, but most of em were still tier 1 or 2 classes.

[Gavinfoxx]

Well, tiers are potential power level, after all... and different classes and builds have different options for low equipment viability. I mean LOOK at that list of houserules questions I posted, ya know?

[BobVosh]

That would be good, actually. I think when I ran it... my first rogue was a Rogue/Swashbuckler... he died... Then I had a ranger 1/Rogue X... and he died... then I made a duskblade... he died, the cleric died (again) and the necromancer died. Not making another rogue was a mistake.

So I made another rogue 1/Wizard 1/Rogue X, played it MORE paranoid than I usually do, to the point I was I was making search, listen, and spot checks every ten feet, and making another set of checks AFTER I had found and disabled a trap. Listen and search checks at every door, every corner, every stop. IF there was a dead body, or ANYTHING laying on the floor, it was poked with a longspear before anyone got near.

The game slowed to a crawl, but after that, the party never had another death or major injury from a trap. That rogue made it through the rest of the game, everyone else had multiple deaths after that. I think our DM wasn't giving us enough exp. however, so.... *shrug*

http://agc.deskslave.org/comic_viewer.html?goNumber=41
That comic and the next 3 or 4 :D


yes, and I dont mind slow leveling... but we had quite a few deaths. I expected mine: being a trapfinder is dangerous work. But the other people? sure, they weren't optimized, but most of em were still tier 1 or 2 classes.

The difference between a conjurer and an evoker is enough that it won't matter anyway.

[hex0]

[url]The difference between a conjurer and an evoker is enough that it won't matter anyway.

Though they both probably have poor Reflex and Fortitude saves, so there is that. And HP. Crit happens.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

http://agc.deskslave.org/comic_viewer.html?goNumber=41
That comic and the next 3 or 4 :D

The difference between a conjurer and an evoker is enough that it won't matter anyway.

haha, funny, yes... though I would admit i wasn't that bad in the Worlds Largest Dungeon. However, Playing Tomb of Horrors... :smallwink:

[tiercel]

http://agc.deskslave.org/comic_viewer.html?goNumber=41
That comic and the next 3 or 4 :D


Of course if you can survive long enough to qualify for the Summon Elemental reserve feat your rogue gets to rest... (http://agc.deskslave.org/comic_viewer.html?goNumber=368)

---------

Battlefield control will be pretty sick in any long-term dungeon crawl. I played a controller Conjurer in Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil's not-quite-world's-largest-but-still-seemingly-interminable dungeon. With limited battlefield size, getting the hang of playing Conjurer reduces many battles to a mere puzzle game of splitting enemy forces into manageable and/or pacified chunks and running them through the meat-grinder of the rest of the party.

This will be limited a bit by lack of resources (or more to the point, the ready ability to convert treasure into resources, whether it's crafting items or buying new spells known), but that doesn't keep anyone from making a Sorcerer-casting-based controller instead.

[Vendle]

The difficulty my group had with the W.L.D. was that it was far too easy to wander into an area of the dungeon that was far more challenging than the PC's level. If you are running the game, I recommend not strictly adhering to the map layout. If the PCs insist on going down a hallway at level 2 that you can see leads them to CR 8 encounters, perhaps some rearrangement is in order.

Also the book states in the beginning chapter that some classes are exceptionally difficult to play in the special rules set the W.L.D uses. That includes wizards (very few scrolls laying around) and druids (very few animals to encounter).

[Jandrem]

Its also somewhat difficult to add new character when an old one dies... kinda hard to explain why there's a new PC just wandering around this huge dungeon alone. the whole "teleportation doesn't work" thing kinda throws it off... means they had to walk in, basically, or have been stuck down there already. It was definitely a hassle for our group when people died, which happened a decent amount.

The way we played WLD, we made up a backstory along the lines of it being similar to some sort of open challenge, where wandering adventurers could sign up and attempt to survive it. Almost took a tone like a Reality Show/Game Show, and the players were contestants. When someone died, their corpse and belongings disappeared and the players new character would eventually be dropped into the party. It added a whole different feel to the game, made us feel like more of a team trying to survive.

[Gavinfoxx]

Also the book states in the beginning chapter that some classes are exceptionally difficult to play in the special rules set the W.L.D uses. That includes wizards (very few scrolls laying around) and druids (very few animals to encounter).

The thing is, that doesn't actually follow the rules of 3.5e. That follows the misunderstandings that the designers of WLD had about how the character classes work. See my list of questions regarding this game -- it goes into a significant amount of detail about these options. Remember, Druids don't NEED to encounter animals to know about them -- they just know, via their connection to nature, which is why knowledge nature is a class skill for them, and why they can change into so many different things (ie, max your knowledge nature, take 10 on knowledge nature, and you are familiar with so many types of animals by the point you can wild shape into them that things are fine). The problems of this game come up when, you know, people actually use the suggested house rules from the module without thinking them through!