Using Wish to refresh your spell list.

[Morithias]

Can a mage use a wish spell to basically "rest" for 8 hours and refresh their entire spell list (minus the wish spell probably)?

If you can, does that mean if you run into a genie that is VERY nice that you could wish for say "3 more wishes"? Which is effectively just resetting the genie's wish per day limit?

[GoatBoy]

Using wish like that would fall under DM discretion. If one of my players wished to have their spell list refreshed, I'd say that the spell puts them into a coma for 8 hours.

Wishing for more wishes is not possible, because wish only duplicates spells of up to 8th level.

[Morithias]

Using wish like that would fall under DM discretion. If one of my players wished to have their spell list refreshed, I'd say that the spell puts them into a coma for 8 hours.

Wishing for more wishes is not possible, because wish only duplicates spells of up to 8th level.

Yeah but you're not asking to duplicate the spell, just to refresh the genie's spell list.

Then again I suppose the Ruby rod's power is artifact level and it can only do it once a day, so I guess you're probably right you can't do this. RAW at least.

[Tenno Seremel]

You need to have Dodge Flying Book feat three times first.

[candycorn]

Can a mage use a wish spell to basically "rest" for 8 hours and refresh their entire spell list (minus the wish spell probably)?

If you can, does that mean if you run into a genie that is VERY nice that you could wish for say "3 more wishes"? Which is effectively just resetting the genie's wish per day limit?

I'd say that would likely grant you Heward's Fortifying Bedroll.

[Flickerdart]

The genie doesn't cast the Wish, so refreshing his spell list doesn't do anything.

[Calanon]

Using wish like that would fall under DM discretion. If one of my players wished to have their spell list refreshed, I'd say that the spell puts them into a coma for 8 hours.

I wish that it only took 6 seconds out of a period of 24 hours to be completely rested and have my spell slots restored.

Help me make this fool-proof. :smallsmile:

[Morithias]

I wish that it only took 6 seconds out of a period of 24 hours to be completely rested and have my spell slots restored.

Help me make this fool-proof. :smallsmile:

Remember people you're wishing for the GENIE to have his/her spell-like abilities per day refreshed, WHILE keeping yourself in control of him/her.

Your goal is to get more wishes out of the genie with no waiting or having to bind it again.

[Zaq]

I'd most likely be OK with it if 1) the player didn't do it too often and 2) they were actually paying the full XP cost (no SLAs, no items, no tricks). But that's just my off-the-cuff ruling, and I don't even GM much. It would take outright bribery for me to voluntarily run a campaign where players have 9th level spells.

[candycorn]

I wish that it only took 6 seconds out of a period of 24 hours to be completely rested and have my spell slots restored.

Help me make this fool-proof. :smallsmile:

You're transported to a fast time plane. 8 hours there is equivalent to 1 round in the material.

[Wings of Peace]

A Mind Mage (http://www.angelfire.com/pro/demon_1/prc_mind_mage.htm) using an infinite power point hack could lower Wish/Miracle (gained via feat) to a 1st level spell and then use it to standard action cast Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer to profit 3 1st level spells and build his way up from there. That's a pretty late game trick though and really it's a lot better with Miracle than Wish.

[Morithias]

You're transported to a fast time plane. 8 hours there is equivalent to 1 round in the material.

I wish that it only took 6 seconds out of a period of 24 hours on the material plane to be completely rested and have my spell slots and only my spell slots restored.

[Keegan__D]

You're transported to a fast time plane. 8 hours there is equivalent to 1 round in the material.

Or, nothing appears to change, since the slow-time plane already has 8 hours pass in 1 round.

[candycorn]

I wish that it only took 6 seconds out of a period of 24 hours on the material plane to be completely rested and have my spell slots and only my spell slots restored.
Partial Fulfillment clause, modified to:
I wish that it only took 6 seconds out of a period of 24 hours on the material plane to be completely rested and have my spell slots and only my spell slots restored.
Transport travelers to the fast time realm.

You cannot foolproof an ability which contains this clause: (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)

Or possibly a literal but undesirable fulfillment. You experience time at 4800 times the usual rate. You get 8 hours of time for every round that passes to everyone else. In 36 minutes, you age a year. In a day, you age 40 years. Within a week, you're dead. Since time is passing faster for you than the rate of time stop, you can't affect anything. You experience a long and full life with no ability to interact with the material plane. Since you can no longer affect the material plane, you can't alter your time flow related to it. Congratulations, roll a new character.

A DM will never be forced to do what you want with a Wish spell. Foolproofing a Wish is not possible.

[myancey]

Wishing for more wishes is not possible, because wish only duplicates spells of up to 8th level.

Could you not prep future wishes by wishing that the aforementioned clause be taken out of Wish's spell description?

[candycorn]

Could you not prep future wishes by wishing that the aforementioned clause be taken out of Wish's spell description?

Literal, but undesirable. Every description of wish in the world loses that text. Function of the spell is unchanged.

[deuxhero]

Is wish to be rested and recover spells ever printed in any D&D book? I know it was in BG, but was it in 2E?

[candycorn]

Is wish to be rested and recover spells ever printed in any D&D book? I know it was in BG, but was it in 2E?

No "D&D book" exists in the fantasy realm occupied by the wishing character. Nothing happens.

[Douglas]

No "D&D book" exists in the fantasy realm occupied by the wishing character. Nothing happens.
He was asking a question, not proposing a possible wish.

[candycorn]

He was asking a question, not proposing a possible wish.

Then I'm not certain what he's asking, due to poor formatting.

[Psyren]

I'm with candycorn. Partial fulfillment means that no amount of lawyering can get you exactly what you ask for unless you stick with the stated uses.


(Well, unless the DM/cosmos decides to give you what you ask for, anyway.)



Then I'm not certain what he's asking, due to poor formatting.

He's asking "was this particular use of Wish (i.e. I wish to recover my spells) printed in any D&D book before?" Followed by claiming that this was a listed function of 2e Wish. I can't verify that myself, lacking any 2e material.

[Alleran]

Is wish to be rested and recover spells ever printed in any D&D book? I know it was in BG, but was it in 2E?
I don't think so. In BGII, it was one of the possible benefits you could get with a high-enough INT and WIS, if I recall correctly. It was basically just the representation of you managing to get the wording of the wish down right. And if you had stats that were too low, then you could indeed get only a partial fulfillment of the wish.

I also know that it's stated in the ELH that the Simbul uses Wish spells to change her Sorcerer spells known, but I've never seen a Wish used in RAW to completely restore a character's spells and spell slots as if they'd rested for 24 hours. If the character was good with the wording and paid the full XP price, I might be persuaded to allow it, were I the DM, but if they tried to abuse it, then it would backfire fast. They are, after all, getting around one of the supposed limitations of a spellcaster (the need to refresh their spell list and regain spell slots).

[candycorn]

He's asking "was this particular use of Wish (i.e. I wish to recover my spells) printed in any D&D book before?" Followed by claiming that this was a listed function of 2e Wish. I can't verify that myself, lacking any 2e material.

Not to my knowledge, but I don't have 2e experience.

[Psyren]

I would allow it, but not allow it to refresh 9th-level slots. Furthermore, each time he tried that would refresh spells one level lower (no higher than 7ths, then no higher than 6ths etc) until s/he took the time to actually rest.

[candycorn]

The existing mechanic that seems to exist is that 1 spell is worth 2 spells that are 3 levels lower.

Therefore, Wish should be able to refresh one 9th level slot, two 6th level slots, four 3rd level slots, or eight 0th level slots.

Double the benefits, to represent the 5000xp cost, and that's probably in line with the maximum number of refresh slots.

Alternately, using Wish to alter your currently prepared spells would be in power (you have the slots, you know the spells, you just exchange prepared spells for others).

[navar100]

Wish can duplicate a spell up to 8th level. To refresh your spells is a lot more than one 8th level spell. Too powerful for a wish. However, it would be reasonable to use wish for a replenishment of eight levels of spells. For example, two 4th level slots, a 6th level and 2nd level slot, etc. Because it would take more than one round to cast the replenished spells, to be a bit more generous, since it is Wish and you are spending 5,000XP, 16 levels of spells is probably not out of the question - two 8th level slots, a 9th and 7th, a 6th, 6th, and 4th.

[deuxhero]

I also know that it's stated in the ELH that the Simbul uses Wish spells to change her Sorcerer spells known

RAW legal even without that source (ish, I don't think it is ever made explicit you can mimic powers via wish line, but transparency should make it work): Use it to imitate lesser Psychic Reformation. Actually only takes a Limited Wish due to being 4th level, but I guess you have slots and XP burning a hole in your character sheet when epic.

[dextercorvia]

In 2e there were no (or very few) uses of wish that were guaranteed. It pretty much played entirely by DM discretion. Also, it aged you 5 years, so not really worth it unless you were an elf.

[Panartias]

In 2e there were no (or very few) uses of wish that were guaranteed. It pretty much played entirely by DM discretion. Also, it aged you 5 years, so not really worth it unless you were an elf.

We had a mage in our 2e group that actually used wish sometimes to refresh his spellslots. Given the cost of wish in 2e, everyone seemed to be ok with this particular use.

Wishing for more wishes is out of the question however...

[Trenelus]

In the Baldur's Gate 2 you could use wish to give your entire party the benefits of rest; some hp, spell slots, daily uses, this even reseted magic items with limited uses per day.

[Quietus]

I've been in a game where I was allowed to do this, multiple times over within a single combat. That being said, this was with a DM who basically ignored most the rules anyway, and we were fighting Tiamat, who under this DM had stats of "lolwut". He treated the Deities and Demigods versions as the avatars of deities, and the real deities didn't have stats at all.

In a normal game, I would see no problem whatsoever with allowing a player to do this. 5,000 XP is a hell of a cost to pay for a quick one-round nap, so if the player is in a position to pay that, they probably really need those spell slots. Properly played, it can be very cinematic, as the wizard burns away a portion of his own soul to refresh his arcane power.. and hopes that this time it'll be enough to do the job. If they're using shenanigans to avoid experience costs, I'd be a little more leery and would probably give partial fulfillment, refreshing certain lower level slots at random instead.