The ToB Legacy Weapons-Seriously, is that the best they could do?

[ScrambledBrains]

So, I was thumbing through my recently recieved as a gift ToB and happened to stumble across the Legacy Weapons. I feel I should clarify right here that I adore the fluff of these weapons-I love the concept of blades perfectly designed/forged/handed down by Gods/etc. for each of these disciplines. :smallsmile:

However, upon closer reading, I noticed that, in order to use these weapons at full power, not only does your DM have to allow you the opportunities to satisfy the three ritual requirements for each weapon, but the weapons, at certain levels, force a penalty on your attack, your hp, and your saves(Fort. in 6 cases, Reflex in one, and all in the remaining two.)

Seriously? Is that a joke? Like melee(even the Tier three melee of ToB) doesn't get kicked in the teeth enough? Like it's such a danger for a physical class to have a few special things from his blade that they had to penalize him for it? What the hell, Wizards of the Coast? :smallfurious:

[Big Fau]

Welcome to the disappointment that was Weapons of Legacy's 100+ pages.


You can tear out every single premade item in the book [WoL] and have something moderately useful. At least some of the Bo9S ones work decently.

[ScrambledBrains]

Welcome to the disappointment that was Weapons of Legacy's 100+ pages.


You can tear out every single premade item in the book [WoL] and have something moderately useful. At least some of the Bo9S ones work decently.

Should I assume my complementary jacket is in the mail? :smallbiggrin:

I never even looked at WoL actually...is it WORSE than the ToB ones? I didn't think that was possibile. (The only one I'd consider ever using from ToB would be Umbral Awn, and that's because if you're using the Shadow Hand techniques enough for that blade to be in your possession, the penalties are only bad if you get caught....which you hopefully won't.)

[peacenlove]

You can use the abilities granted by ToB and WoL to create a custom weapon, with the guidelines presented in WoL.
Supernatural mind blank and immunity to surprise for example are potent abilities.
In our games we remove all statistical penalties and keep only the monetary and xp ones.

[Ravens_cry]

Remake the weapons that exist, some of the fluff is super awesome. Like Ur, the first magic weapon. I just love the idea of that ,that magic, at least as a technolgoy, had a beginning.

[ScrambledBrains]

You can use the abilities granted by ToB and WoL to create a custom weapon, with the guidelines presented in WoL.
Supernatural mind blank and immunity to surprise for example are potent abilities.
In our games we remove all statistical penalties and keep only the monetary and xp ones.

Hmmm, I was unaware of that. But even with abilities that potent, it's not like any Tier 1 or properly calibrated Tier 2 couldn't have both those abilities up for the mere cost of two spells expended, if that, so why can't melee without a cost? BTW, I believe I'll be borrowing your house-rule for any games I DM, if you don't object.

[Big Fau]

I never even looked at WoL actually...is it WORSE than the ToB ones? I didn't think that was possibile. (The only one I'd consider ever using from ToB would be Umbral Awn, and that's because if you're using the Shadow Hand techniques enough for that blade to be in your possession, the penalties are only bad if you get caught....which you hopefully won't.)

WoL was the launch of Legacy items. As the original source, it's expected for there to be rough spots that later supplements would work out.

Well, later books did smooth things out a little, but not nearly enough. And the rough spots? The peaks are short, the valleys deep, and there isn't much breathing room. The book's best abilities were Legacy Champion and the custom legacy rules (and one or two of the premade ones), and the worst parts were what's left unmentioned. Calling the rest of it mediocre at best is an insult to blandness.


Hmmm, I was unaware of that. But even with abilities that potent, it's not like any Tier 1 or properly calibrated Tier 2 couldn't have both those abilities up for the mere cost of two spells expended, if that, so why can't melee without a cost? BTW, I believe I'll be borrowing your house-rule for any games I DM, if you don't object.

The free metamagic abilities are actually very useful for casting, and the Enhancement bonuses and SLA ones are actually helpful because of their price tags.

[ScrambledBrains]

Remake the weapons that exist, some of the fluff is super awesome. Like Ur, the first magic weapon. I just love the idea of that ,that magic, at least as a technolgoy, had a beginning.

Good point. I believe I shall, to the best of my ability at any rate. :smallsmile:

[darkdragoon]

I like the tiger claw and devoted spirit ones, but yeah, the concept as a whole was undercooked.

To be fair, there are some workarounds:

Legacy Champion makes the rituals more manageable and can more or less trade out a bad feature for a good one.

There's the option of building your own via the tables in the back of WoL.

Another suggestion is to stop after the 1st or 2nd legacy because the capstone ones are generally the most disappointing.

[ScrambledBrains]

WoL was the launch of Legacy items. As the original source, it's expected for there to be rough spots that later supplements would work out.

Well, later books did smooth things out a little, but not nearly enough. And the rough spots? The peaks are short, the valleys deep, and there isn't much breathing room. The book's best abilities were Legacy Champion and the custom legacy rules (and one or two of the premade ones), and the worst parts were what's left unmentioned. Calling the rest of it mediocre at best is an insult to blandness.

Ah, I see. So WoL was the start...

Obviously.


I like the tiger claw and devoted spirit ones, but yeah, the concept as a whole was undercooked.

To be fair, there are some workarounds:

Legacy Champion makes the rituals more manageable and can more or less trade out a bad feature for a good one.

There's the option of building your own via the tables in the back.

Another suggestion is to stop after the 1st or 2nd legacy because the capstone ones are generally the most disappointing.

I liked the shadow hand and diamond mind ones meself. Yes, massively so.

Hmmm, will consider those work-arounds. Many thanks.

[Trenelus]

I find myself amused that these 9 swords, all "specially crafted to embody each of the martial disciplines", and yet none off them has "Martial Disciple" Weapon enhancement special ability, wich would had fit perfectly for their theme and purpose.

[Rhaegar14]

Yeah, Legacy Weapons tend to suck; not because the penalties that are associated with them are heinously severe, but because the abilities themselves on the weapons aren't that useful. Though, personally, I adore Desert Wind and Faithful Avenger. Crimson Ruination is also working particularly well for one of my players in the campaign I'm running (but then, it's a campaign jam-packed with dragons).

Weapons of Legacy was horribly written; good luck finding the levels associated with each legacy ritual, for example.

Still, I really wish some of them were better executed. Exordius has super awesome fluff, but since it pretty much requires you to be a paladin (thus crippling you), and THEN adds mostly terrible abilities. That, Full Moon's Trick, and Caladbolg (though, to me, it's kinda dumb that an item that's supposed to cut through anything is a short sword) are all very cool but very weak in execution.