Questions on Sleeping Goddess discipline

[Joxer t' Mighty]

As the original thread has been locked and The Demented One has a full inbox, I'm starting this for some comments on one of my favorite disciplines, the Sleeping Goddess (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98409).

Using this discipline with my character and the DM was at first cool with it, but now he's having some serious problems with a couple maneuvers, particularly Call the Heart's Blade.

Call the Heart’s Blade
Sleeping Goddess (Boost)
Level: Swordsage 2
Initiation Action: Move action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Encounter

Calling upon your every mental reserve, you briefly fill your mind with a single emotion. With a surge of psionic power, you then channel this emotion into a weapon, a heart’s blade. The heart’s blade appears in your hands, and can take the form of any melee weapon you are proficient with. It is treated as a magic weapon, and has a +1 enhancement bonus. If the heart’s blade leaves your grip or is broken (it has hardness 10 and 10 hit points), then it dissipates and reforms in your hands at the end of the round. In addition, a heart’s blade has additional special properties based on the emotion it is formed from.

Fear: A heart’s blade of fear seems to writhe and shift in your hands, its blade moving like a serpent. A heart’s blade of fear does not receive any enhancement bonus on attack rolls, but it gains a +2 enhancement bonus on damage rolls. Whenever you make an Intimidate check while wielding a heart’s blade of fear, you may expend two power points to gain a +10 enhancement bonus on the check.

Joy: A heart’s blade of joy is wreathed in a flickering aura that flares brilliantly whenever the weapon draws blood. You may apply a heart’s blade of joy’s enhancement bonus to any roll you make with the weapon–an attack roll to confirm a critical hit, a Bluff check to feint with the weapon, a touch attack to trip a foe with the weapon, or any other. In addition, whenever you are affected by a fear effect or an effect that would cause unnatural sadness, such as the crushing despair spell, while you are wielding the heart’s blade of joy, you may spend two power points as an immediate action to automatically succeed on any Will saves allowed by that effect.

Love: A heart’s blade of love is formed from shimmering prismatic light. It does not cut or maim its victims, but rather passes into them as if they were incorporeal, dealing only nonlethal damage. In addition, whenever you damage a foe with a heart’s blade of love, you may expend two power points. If you do, that foe must make a Will save, DC 12 + your Wisdom modifier, or be charmed for 5 rounds.

Sorrow: A heart’s blade of sorrow is made of solid shadows, an amorphous darkness that flows into the wounds it leaves. Any attack made with a heart’s blade of sorrow ignores morale bonuses to AC, and any attack made against you while you wield the weapon loses the benefits of any morale bonuses on its attack or damage rolls. In addition, whenever you damage a foe with a heart’s blade of sorrow, you may expend two power points. If you do, that foe must make a Will save, DC 12 + your Wisdom modifier, or take a -1 penalty on all attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks for the rest of the encounter. This penalty is not cumulative.

Wrath: A heart’s blade of wrath seems unnaturally sharp-edged or barbed, and it flickers with red light when it strikes a foe. You gain a +4 enhancement bonus on all attack rolls made to confirm a critical hit rolled with a heart’s blade of wrath. In addition, whenever you make an attack with a heart’s blade of wrath, you may expend two power points as a swift action. If you do, the weapon’s critical threat range is doubled for that one attack.

If you have the mind blade class feature, then you may use this maneuver to grant your mind blade the properties of a heart’s blade (but it does not gain an enhancement bonus, nor can you change it’s shape).

If you initiate this maneuver while it is still in effect, you cannot create an additional heart’s blade, but you can change the emotion your blade is formed from.

Call the heart’s blade is a supernatural ability.

Specifically he doesn't like the Love benefit, and the Charm with successful hits, as it can act on any creature type, and at later levels could charm multiple times by hitting numerous targets.

He also does not like it last the entire encounter as he says no other Boost comes close to its power, much less for such a lengthy period.

Any comments on this I could throw back to him?

[DeAnno]

I only skimmed it, but at face value something that isn't an attack and gives benefits for an entire encounter sounds like a stance, not a maneuver.

[Mulletmanalive]

I'd actually strike it fom the move because its a bit woolly. Charm has always had that issue. If it simply stopped him from dealing lethal damage to the user and made it impossible to attack him at all if he doesn't hurt your other allies, that would probably be fine for its level.

I honestly think its the wooliness of charm rather than anything else.

It should also have a duration that can be extended with power points, if its meant to be a boost. i have to presume there is a reason for that...

It also might fit in better either split into myltiple level 2 moves or folded into being level 4ish.

[JerichoPenumbra]

I'd say that you could point out that the charm duration only last 5 rounds.


The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing. Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell.

Chalk in the fact that as a mind affecting ability it's blocked by a 1st level spell I don't see the issue. Plus people would think that it's pretty strange for a person to keep stabbing someone who they seem to be friends with over and over again.

As for the duration of it, you could point out that most boosts give some form of significant combat bonus. This gives a weapon (something that isn't that out of the ordinary) and nice bonuses that don't really scale that well.

Hope that helps.