Acting below 0hp

[kardar233]

I'm building a gestalt based loosely on the Twice-Betrayer at the moment, and it turns out I can only fit 4 levels of Dweomerkeeper in my build, meaning that I can only make one spell Supernatural. Obviously, this will be Delay Death, but I'd like to be able to act as well. I'm going to be using Beastland Ferocity, but it's still in danger of being dispelled (assuming they get past my Spell Immunity: (Greater) Dispel Magic and my anti-Disjunction Spellblade and Contingencies) so I'd like an Ex or Su backup. I looked at Die-hard (one of the only uses for the thing) but I'm restricted to one action per round which will make my Windicator ways much less effective.

So, does anyone know an un-dispellable way to act when I should be dying?

[Rhaegar14]

Shape Soulmeld (Rageclaws).

The Rageclaws soulmeld lets you act from -1 to -9 and automatically stabilize. If you put essentia into it (though without a more significant investment into Incarnum I doubt you will have essentia to invest) it increases the death threshold past -10.

[kardar233]

I can already remain alive past -10 due to Delay Death. I'm looking for a good way to stay active while I'm that low.

[Rhaegar14]

Shape Soulmeld (Rageclaws).

The Rageclaws soulmeld lets you act from -1 to -9 and automatically stabilize. If you put essentia into it (though without a more significant investment into Incarnum I doubt you will have essentia to invest) it increases the death threshold past -10.

See above.

[AmberVael]

Epic Autohypnosis check, dc 30. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#autohypnosis)

That's the one I always liked using, anyway. No need to spend a feat, no limitations on the actions you can take (or at what negatives you can take actions), just a skill check.

[Qwertystop]

I say you should remove the anti-disjunction Spellblade from your list of safeguards. Disjunction is The Spell Which Is Not Used in my experience, since it's so incredibly broken to use on PCs. Acknowledging that it exists seems like granting permission for the DM to start using it on you.

[Darrin]

I say you should remove the anti-disjunction Spellblade from your list of safeguards.

By RAW, it doesn't work. Disjunction is a non-targeting area effect, so the Spellblade offers no protection.

[olentu]

I say you should remove the anti-disjunction Spellblade from your list of safeguards. Disjunction is The Spell Which Is Not Used in my experience, since it's so incredibly broken to use on PCs. Acknowledging that it exists seems like granting permission for the DM to start using it on you.

Not to mention that as I recall being a spell that affects an area disjunction is not a legal spell to be selected for a spellblade.

[Qwertystop]

Right. That too.
:smallredface:

[Psyren]

Epic Autohypnosis check, dc 30. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#autohypnosis)

That's the one I always liked using, anyway. No need to spend a feat, no limitations on the actions you can take (or at what negatives you can take actions), just a skill check.

You keep bleeding though.

You also cannot make Autohypnosis checks untrained, though Shape Soulmeld (Psion's Eyes) can help with that.


Shape Soulmeld (Rageclaws).

The Rageclaws soulmeld lets you act from -1 to -9 and automatically stabilize. If you put essentia into it (though without a more significant investment into Incarnum I doubt you will have essentia to invest) it increases the death threshold past -10.

I second this approach

[Greenish]

Shape Soulmeld (Rageclaws).Soulmelds can be dispelled.

[Havelock]

Disintegrate.

[Psyren]

Soulmelds can be dispelled.

If they can hit you with a dispel, they're likely just to nuke you down to -10 anyway.

[Qwertystop]

You keep bleeding though.

If you can make the check to act while in negatives, you can make the check to stabilize.

[Psyren]

If you can make the check to act while in negatives, you can make the check to stabilize.

Not necessarily, because you can't take 10 if you're fighting. So an unlucky roll can still happen.

[Rhaegar14]

Yeah, but if you're going to rely on making a skill check, if at all possible it's generally nice to make sure you make it even on a natural 1. That's why I pump Concentration as fast as possible when playing melee casters, for instance.

[Qwertystop]

Not necessarily, because you can't take 10 if you're fighting. So an unlucky roll can still happen.

I'd think if you're relying on that check to act below 0, you've probably boosted your bonus such that you will pass a DC 20 on a 1. If it is at all possible for you to act while dying, you have a bonus of at least +10. If you are going to rely on it, I would expect a bonus higher than +20 (>50% chance of passing)

[AmberVael]

If they can hit you with a dispel, they're likely just to nuke you down to -10 anyway.

The whole point of this exercise is making a character who can keep acting indefinitely no matter what his HP is. With Delay Death + Autohypnosis (preferably with at least a +29 check), you can keep acting even if your HP is -100. It doesn't matter to you. If the feature that keeps you going at such a level of HP can be dispelled, then there is one more vulnerability to overcome. Autohypnosis does not have that vulnerability.


Also, yeah, just to draw attention to Havelock's post- Disintegrate and other such effects are a problem for this build, as they can bypass Delay Death's effects. I advise extending your spell immunity to cover such items, if possible, or at least having a nice Ray Deflection (though this still leaves you open to other forms).

[Psyren]

Well yeah, it goes without saying that if you're relying on Autohypnosis to save you in negatives, that you should be pumping it as high as possible. You need to get it as a class skill first though.

And before more of you jump on me, I'm not saying Autohypnosis is a bad idea. But every class can spare a feat, no?

[Greenish]

If they can hit you with a dispel, they're likely just to nuke you down to -10 anyway.I'm just pointing it out, since OP specifically asked for an un-dispellable way of doing it.

[Douglas]

Spell Immunity doesn't work against Dispel Magic because Dispel Magic ignores SR.

[Psyren]

The whole point of this exercise is making a character who can keep acting indefinitely no matter what his HP is. With Delay Death + Autohypnosis (preferably with at least a +29 check), you can keep acting even if your HP is -100. It doesn't matter to you. If the feature that keeps you going at such a level of HP can be dispelled, then there is one more vulnerability to overcome. Autohypnosis does not have that vulnerability.

I agree - but if the point of the exercise is to stack up as many protections as possible, then why not use both?

And another factor is resource expenditure. To get Autohypnosis as a class skill you're at least looking at a level dip, right?


I'm just pointing it out, since OP specifically asked for an un-dispellable way of doing it.

Bold is srs

[Greenish]

Bold is srsBecoming indestrucible and immortal in a game of pretend is serious business.

[Draz74]

Soulmelds can be dispelled, yes, but only by a targeted Dispel. Which affects nothing else. Whereas buffs can be dispelled by an area Dispel.

Not correcting anything that's been said, just pointing out an important distinction that makes the Soulmeld a little safer as a strategy.

[Darrin]

Soulmelds can be dispelled, yes, but only by a targeted Dispel. Which affects nothing else. Whereas buffs can be dispelled by an area Dispel.


And a Spellblade *can* protect against a targeted dispel. An area-effect dispel will ignore the soulmeld (it's not an ongoing spell effect). So Soulmeld + Spellblade (vs. dispel magic) is probably a fairly solid combo.

Crusader 15 + Immortal Fortitude stance might also be worth a look.

[Psyren]

Becoming indestrucible and immortal in a game of pretend is serious business.

:-|


Soulmelds can be dispelled, yes, but only by a targeted Dispel. Which affects nothing else. Whereas buffs can be dispelled by an area Dispel.

Not correcting anything that's been said, just pointing out an important distinction that makes the Soulmeld a little safer as a strategy.

Plus it's automatic and requires no checks on your part.
And if you have essentia (for whatever reason) you can even go below the -10 threshold, something that is otherwise very difficult to do in 3.5.