action points (from Eberron) and possible subsitutes

[Kol Korran]

a campaign of mine is nearing it's end. it was supposed to be classic high adventure heroic fantasy, so we opted to use the Action point system in the Eberron Campaign Setting (since we're playing in the setting).

this was the first time we used them, and at first they seemed fine, but as the level went up, and they got more and more and got better at using them (mainly for critical saves and/ or major battles or checks) they became quite problematic to deal with as a DM.

tough battles needed to get tougher to just stand a chance of being challenging, but they also relied on the party having enough action points. (which they didn't always had which almost ended quite badly, unfairly... :smallannoyed:)

so soon i'll start preparing for the next campaign, and i've been thinking:
- are there other such systems who use luck/ extraoridnary skill/ karma? (i know od Edge from shadowrun so far) :smalltongue:

- how might i go about possibly creating/ stealing/ implementing sysytem that: the "extra edge" is rarer, and mroe special (i might just reduce the action points to a lower and set amount per level?), have variable effects for various kind of campaigns (i'm thinking maybe a set bonus to achieve more, or just a reroll presenting luck better? not sure) and lastly- that it would be easier as a DM/ GM to deal with and balance against... :smallconfused:

so... anyone have any thoughts? suggestions?

(search word: Tomer)

[Trenelus]

How about the way action points are handled in 4e?
You start each day with 1 point, and after every 2 challenging encounters they they get one more? You need to use them on the same day, because when a new day starts your action points drop/rise to 1 again. This would give you control how many points they get each day, and help to anticipate their use, as roughly they can spent 1 point in every 2 fights.

[Rhaegar14]

I have a system that I use when I DM called "Epic Win" that's entirely houseruled.

Basically, each character gets one Epic Win per adventure. They can opt to use their Epic Win to automatically succeed on whatever they try to do on their turn, provided it's actually possible (i.e. Natural 20), so long as they provide a little bit of vivid description and I deem that whatever they are trying to do is sufficiently awesome.

Examples that have seen play:

- The Barbarian being teleported into the air and cutting a Levitating Psion in half.
- The Rogue tackling the Knight off his dragon mount.

[Prime32]

Have you looked at PF's "hero points" (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/hero-points)?

[Dimers]

I'd recommend a more frequent but less "swingy" variant, like in Deadlands. Players get ... um ... luck units, for lack of a better term ... fairly frequently, and they come from a wide variety of reasons -- roleplaying, entertaining the group, consolation prize when something else goes horribly wrong, good plans whether or not they get enacted as intended ... It's been quite a while since I played, so I don't remember the fine details. The lowest denomination of luck unit might be around the equivalent of adding a d4 to a roll in D&D, the medium denomination 2d4, the top one 3d4. So spending big makes one roll pretty likely to succeed, one effect considerably more damaging or what-have-you, and spending small usually has a nice but not game-changing effect. One expenditure per roll, please.

Another way the luck units are used is canceling out enemies' use of luck. That's right, the bad guys get 'em too! Most of the time that the players get luck units, the bad guys collectively get the same quantity and denomination. So the group might play defensively, hoarding their luck to stave off disaster, or they could spend it all hoping for wild success.

Finally, unspent luck -- again, if I'm remembering correctly -- could be used as character points to improve your character. If you're tough, canny, lucky or a good team player, and you survive without spending those luck units, you get more heroic faster.

Luck might be applied to initiative, skills, saves, attacks, defense rolls if you use that variant, damage, crit confirmation, maybe even randomization or filling in gameworld detail -- you could let the players spend their luck units to describe something in the game that you hadn't fully fleshed out. Like if a fight is about to start, a player could offer to spend some luck to add difficult terrain between them and their melee-only enemies.

One downside to using the luck tokens is that they quickly become a game within the game. Like, the players might use them to guess how close they are to the finale based on how freely the DM is spending luck for his monsters. They don't interfere with roleplaying directly -- I mean, it's clear that only the players are talking about 'spending luck', not their characters -- but it could lead to some unwanted metagaming. That may be true of all action-point variants; I don't know.

[daemonaetea]

My DM has a system that I think works reasonably well. He gives us coins which can be used to add +2 (each) to a roll. These are given out for completing major quests (possibly 2 or 3 to each player), for figuring things out (understanding something beyond what we were told or putting together clues may be worth 1-2 coins to the one who does it), enacting particularly bold or dangerous plans (the more suicidal it is, the more coins you get for sheer stupidity bravery), or for something particularly good out of game (there have been a few puns or jokes so endearingly awful they've been rewarded with a coin).

Generally there are about 5 or 6 coins on the table at a time, spread throughout the players. The uses are generally when an attack against a powerful foe was just shy of hitting, when a particularly important save was just shy, or even during times of even greater peril. My character was once hit by a coup de grace, and I used my two coins, as well as two more donated by other players, to survive. Generally we don't have enough coins to throw them at every situation, but there's usually enough so that a single attack doesn't kill us all in one go or to make sure that blows during a vital battle land if they were close enough to the mark.

One thing to point out is that we can use those coins for any roll we make, but only those rolls we make. Doesn't work for a melee strike since you don't roll anything for that, but on the other hand they can be used when rolling HP to make sure you max it.

[Fyermind]

There is a chain of luck feats in Complete Scoundrel that allow re-rolls per day on certain checks. I don't tend to find them worthwhile for my characters so I tend not to use them, but you could give your players bonus feats at certain levels that have to be luck feats. Maybe add some other types of checks so that everyone can get in on the fun.

[JadePhoenix]

You had problems with action points? Interesting. Never heard that before. Would you mind being more specific?