Theurge It Up In a Spontaneous Way

[Gorfnod]

I have a player in my game that is interested in playing a kobold sorcerer with a natural tie to the dragon deity Io (Faerun setting). He has proposed Sorc4/Favored Soul4/MysTheurge but I can already see the look in his eyes when he realizes that he is lvl9 and only has 3rd level spells.

I have already suggested the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage which would allow him to save 1 level of sorcerer but I have banned Loredrake and its ilk and am hesitant to let venerable Dragonwrought slide unless he really needs the boost.

Are there any really effective ways to mix sorcerer and favored soul?

[Wings of Peace]

Are there any really effective ways to mix sorcerer and favored soul?

The only winning move is not to play.

[Curious]

I. . . Suppose you could use some unholy mixture of Sorceror/ Spontaneous Cleric/ Sublime Chord/ Mystic Theurge. but I'm fairly certain that wouldn't be too much better than what you've already got.

[Gorfnod]

The only winning move is not to play.

And this is what I'm afraid of....

[AmberVael]

Cheese it up with Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell?

It'd effectively allow the character to cast level 2 spells with both classes when each were level 1. Now, you'd need to take at least 3 levels before you could pick up Mystic Theurge, but that could leave you with a build like Sorcerer 2/Favored Soul 1/Mystic Theurge X which would be far better than 4/4.

Also, I'd encourage that after the 10 levels of Mystic Theurge, he either focuses on one side, or that you allow him some continued form of dual progression.

[Quietus]

Cheese it up with Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell?

It'd effectively allow the character to cast level 2 spells with both classes when each were level 1. Now, you'd need to take at least 3 levels before you could pick up Mystic Theurge, but that could leave you with a build like Sorcerer 2/Favored Soul 1/Mystic Theurge X which would be far better than 4/4.

Also, I'd encourage that after the 10 levels of Mystic Theurge, he either focuses on one side, or that you allow him some continued form of dual progression.

This is what I would suggest. Sorc2/FS1/Theurge6 would let him cast as a Sorc8/FS7... so 4ths/3rds, at level 9. Depending on the optimization level of your group, this could either be too much, or just right. A straight Wizard has 5ths, but fewer of them, at this point; A straight Sorcerer is one level of casting ahead of this Theurge, and gets his higher level spells slightly faster. Effectively, this build is trading off a little bit of power for lots of versatility. Great in a T3ish setting, in my opinion, as long as he doesn't crank other optimization too hard.

[Little Brother]

I made the handbook for a reason, you know...

Best move? Favored Soul 7/Nar Demonbinder 1/Mystic Theurge 7 or Bard 1/Favored Soul 9/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge 9. You have to be a human for these, though. You could drop the human requirement for SM to let him qualify... Otherwise, he's gonna suck without going the Uncanny Forethought Wizard/Cleric with Alternative Source Spell for spontaneous any damn thing he pleases.

[dextercorvia]

I have a player in my game that is interested in playing a kobold sorcerer with a natural tie to the dragon deity Io (Faerun setting). He has proposed Sorc4/Favored Soul4/MysTheurge but I can already see the look in his eyes when he realizes that he is lvl9 and only has 3rd level spells.

No. He still has 2ndl level spells.


Cheese it up with Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell?

It'd effectively allow the character to cast level 2 spells with both classes when each were level 1. Now, you'd need to take at least 3 levels before you could pick up Mystic Theurge, but that could leave you with a build like Sorcerer 2/Favored Soul 1/Mystic Theurge X which would be far better than 4/4.

Also, I'd encourage that after the 10 levels of Mystic Theurge, he either focuses on one side, or that you allow him some continued form of dual progression.

This gets my vote.

[Gorfnod]

Cheese it up with Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell?


Beautiful, just beautiful.


I made the handbook for a reason, you know...

Little Brother I have actually read your handbook a few times now and if my player wasn't so set on sorcerer I would have sent him to it.

[kulosle]

Tell him there are better ways than sorcerer and favored soul. sorcerer is only worth it if you get all of the kobold cheese. favored soul is never worth it unless your trying to be suboptimal. Use the prestige classes that have quick progression. Don't use mystic theurge. There are better theurge classes.

[erikun]

If you are the DM, can you just allow him entry with Sorcerer 2/Favored Soul 2 or some combination of 2nd level spells on one side and 1st level spells on the other? That seems like it would be the least painful option, at least moreso that trying to place a Sublime Chord/Mystic Theurge in the hands of a new(ish) player.

[Urpriest]

I'll second the Nar Demonbinder suggestion. Do note that you need Favored Soul 8, not just 7, before entering Nar Demonbinder.

You could also tack some divine stuff onto Sorceror with a refluffed (and subtly re-mechaniced) Rainbow Servant.

[golem1972]

Probably not what you are looking for, but:

Gestalt - Favored Soul // Sorcerer build (possibly Sorcadin for more charisma synergy).

[Gorfnod]

I appreciate the suggestions all around and will probably suggest the Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell or Favored Soul/Nar Demonbinder routes.

[Rhaegar14]

On a somewhat unrelated note, tell him to dip one level in Theurge, then start taking levels in Dweomerkeeper that advance Theurge casting. He might as well get some class features.

(I'll note that I'm not entirely certain this works by RAW, but as a DM I'd allow it).

[AmberVael]

(I'll note that I'm not entirely certain this works by RAW, but as a DM I'd allow it).

It doesn't work, just for future reference.

The reasoning is that Mystic Theurge is not a casting class- it has no casting to advance. It does advance casting, but it has no casting itself. Therefore, you could use Dweomerkeeper to advance Favored Soul, or Sorcerer, but not Mystic Theurge.

[Rhaegar14]

Good to know, but dual casting fits the class' fluff pretty perfectly, and making it go through Theurge requires a minimum threshold in each casting class. Thus why I'd allow it. :)

[kulosle]

But then you get silly nonsense like a theurge class advancing two theurge classes.