ITS THAT TIME AGAIN.. a VoP re-tool..

[Kenneth]

seeing a VoP thread on the fornt page inspired me to do my own work on it.. i have no idea if it stacks up to what is needed or not in that making Vop a vialbe feat for the sacrifice of items.


Force Armor (Su): At 1st level you gain a +4 armor bonus to AC. This bonus increases to +5 at 3rd level, and increases by +1 every three levels thereafter. This bonus does not apply to touch attacks, but does apply to incorporeal touch attacks and brilliant energy weapons.
Deflection (Su): At 2nd level you gain a +2 deflection bonus to AC. This bonus increases to +3 at 5th level, and by an additional +1 every 3 levels thereafter.
Natural Armor (Ex): At 3rd level you gain a +2 bonus to natural armor. This bonus increases by +1 at 6th level and every 3 levels thereafter.
Endure Elements (Ex): At 3rd level you become immune to the effects of being in a hot or cold environment. You can exist comfortably in conditions between -50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit without having to make Fortitude saves (as described int the Dungeon Master's Guide).
Empowered Strike (Su): At 4th level you gain a +1 enhancement bonus on all attack and damage rolls. In effect, any weapon you wield functions as a +1 magic weapon, and can overcome the damage reduction of a creature as though it were a magic weapon. This enhancement increases by +1 at 8th level and every 4 levels thereafter. At 10th level any weapon you wield is considered to have the Holy weapon enchantment, in addition the weapon is considered adamantine for purposes of overcoming damage reduction.. At 7th level any weapon you wield is considered to have one of the following elemental weapon enchants, acidic burst, flaming burst, icy burst, shocking burst, as well as being considered silver and cold-iron for purposes of overcoming damage reduction.. At 12th level, and again every 4 levels thereafter, choose one of the following magic weapon special abilities to apply to any weapon you wield: Bane, Defending, Ghost Touch, Keen, Ki Focus, Spell Storing, Throwing, Vicious.
Ability Score Enhancement (Ex): At 4th level you gain a +2 enhancement bonus to one ability score. At 8th level and every four levels thereafter you gain a +2 enhancement bonus to an additional ability score, and each previous ability's enhancement increases by +2.
Resistance (Ex): At 4th level you gain a +1 resistance bonus to saving throws. This bonus increases by +1 at 8th level and every 4 levels thereafter.
Sustenance (Ex): At 5th level you no longer need to eat or drink.
Bonus Feats: At 3rd, 5th, 7th, 11th, 13th, 17th, and 19th levels you gain a bonus feat. You must meet all prerequisites for the feat.
Flight (Ex): At 6th level you gain a fly speed equal to your base land speed with average maneuverability. At 12th level this becomes good maneuverability, and at 18th level it increases again to double your base land speed with perfect maneuverability.
Fortification (Ex): Starting at 7th level, when you are affected by a sneak attack or critical hit you have a chance to negate the effect and take normal damage, depending on level: 7th: 25% 11th: 50% 15th: 75% 19th: 100%.
Inviolate Body (Ex): At 12 th level you become immune to Death Attacks, at 16 th level you are immune to energy drain and negative levels
Mind Shielding (Ex): At 8th level you become immune to detect thoughts, discern lies, and any attempt to discern your alignment. At 16th level you gain a permanent Mind Blank effect.
Damage Reduction (Ex): You gain damage reduction 3/- at 10th level. At 15th level this increases to 8/- At 20th level this increases to 13/-
Energy Resistance (Ex): At 6th level you gain resistance 5 against acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic energy. This increases to resistance 10 at 12th level and resistance 15 at 28th level.
Spell Resistance (Ex): Starting at 11th level you gain spell resistance equal to your character level + 10, against spells of a harmful or detrimental nature.
Greater Sustenance (Ex): At 12th level you no longer need to breath.
Freedom of Movement (Ex): Starting at 14th level you can act as if continually under the effect of a freedom of movement spell.
Regeneration (Ex): at 5th level you gain fast healing 1, this increase by 1 every 5th level afterwards. Starting at 17th level you gain regeneration 1
Flash (Ex): At 14 th level you can Teleport up to 100 feet away as a standard action.
True Seeing (Ex): At 18th level you gain a continuous true seeing ability, as the spell.
Virtuous Aegis (Ex): you gain true miss chance equal to 10% at level 10, increasing by 5% every 5 levels afterwards, to a max of 20% at level 20.

[NeoSeraphi]

What material/alignment/energy deals lethal damage to a level 17 ascetic?

[Kenneth]

all of them?

nobody gets immunity to an energy type and DR 13/- is hardly beyond the scope of one's ability to deal damage. and resistance 15 is again not that great but servicable.

[NeoSeraphi]

all of them?

nobody gets immunity to an energy type and DR 13/- is hardly beyond the scope of one's ability to deal damage. and resistance 15 is again not that great but servicable.

I believe you are misunderstanding my question. All creatures (except the Tarrasque) with the regeneration ability have a specific "weakness" that allows them to be dealt lethal damage. For trolls, it's acid and fire. For chain devils, it's good and silver. What is it for an ascetic?

Edit: Additionally, please state the amount of time it takes for a 17th level ascetic to grow back a severed limb.

[Kenneth]

evil...? Is that a viabel source of leathal damage?

[NeoSeraphi]

evil...? Is that a viabel source of leathal damage?

Evil weapons and spells are quite certainly a viable source of lethal damage, and the mighty solar has regeneration/evil, so there's no problem with your ascetic having one. :smallsmile: Thank you for the clarification.

[NeoSeraphi]

Okay, more in-depth analysis here-

What constitutes the rules for an ascetic? A lot of people think Vow of Poverty needs to be fixed because it is so exclusive to many classes. For example, the current VoP prevents the ascetic from owning or using a holy symbol, spellbook, a masterwork simple weapon, any martial weapon, armor, shields, or a mount. What is your definition of "poverty" for this feat?

You will get more PEACH if you have a table. That is a fact. I suggest you make a simple table that tracks all the bonuses you get over the course of 20 levels so everyone can see it clearly, level by level.

Your bonus feats are out of order (start at 3rd level, but are ordered after 5th level in the text) and not bolded. Makes it hard to see.

Regeneration is also out of order, and Freedom of Movement is also not bolded (I actually missed it the first time I read this)

Now that we got the initial appearance out of the way, let's talk substance. Your abilities can be divided into Defensive, Offensive, and Convenience/Utility. Let's break them down one by one, shall we?

Defensive:
Force Armor - Gives you a +10 armor bonus by level 18. It's as good as +5 breastplate, but falls 3 AC short of +5 full plate. Still, it's really good for a class that normally gets light armor proficiency only.

Deflection - Gives you a +8 deflection bonus by level 20. This is good, seeing as a typical deflection bonus will only go up to +5. Better than the WBL, which is good.

Natural Armor- Gives you a +7 natural armor bonus by level 18. It's pretty good.

Resistance- Gives you a +5 resistance bonus to all saving throws by level 20. It's as good as a cloak of resistance gets, but your party members were wearing +5 cloaks of resistance at least 5 levels ago.

Fortification- Gives you scaling immunity to Sneak Attacks and critical hits. This is a +5 armor enhancement bonus, and it is a welcome addition.

Inviolate Body- The phrasing you want is [Death] effects. A Death Attack is a special attack of the assassin prestige class. This is a constant death ward ability, so it's pretty nice for weaker characters to have. Not to mention you can totally make out with that succubus all you want now, and the power of your goodness protects you from death. Always a plus.

Mind Shielding- Immunity to morale effects with no way to turn it off hurts. But I suppose that is the price to pay for such a good ability. Comes online a little late though.

Damage Reduction- Surprised this wasn't DR/Evil, but it doesn't matter if it's not. The scaling is just fine, and stacks with a barbarian, so it's all good.

Energy Resistance- Sonic resistance is exceptionally rare, but I'm pleased to see it nonetheless. Resist Energy 15 to 5 different elements is powerful, but it's not game-breaking.

Spell Resistance- Doesn't say you can lower it, but it doesn't need to, as it protects you from "harmful" spells, which probably means every spell that offers a saving throw that isn't "harmless", so you can still be healed and other things. Nice.

Freedom of Movement- You get this 3 levels earlier than the scout does. Not sure how I feel about that. I suppose you will get to enjoy it longer though.

Virtuous Aegis- 20% true miss chance by level 20. This is a good ability.

Offensive:
Empowered Strike- Have to wait til 20th to get a +5 weapon, but at least it gets some cool abilities. Better still, you get to choose from a list, rather than them being picked out for you. I like it.

Ability Score Enhancement- This should be (Su). Enhancement bonuses represent magical influence. If everyone else's enhancement bonuses get turned off in an anti-magic field, so should yours.

Bonus Feats- No longer limited to exalted feats. Pretty nice, useful. Helps with all the feats as magic items you can no longer take.

Utility

Endure Elements- Total meh

Sustenance- You're too poor to eat. This helps.

Flight- This doesn't make sense. If your flight is extraordinary, you need some method of flying. Like, wings. If you don't have wings, it's supernatural. Always.

Greater Sustenance- You can now be poor underwater. Or someone can bury you alive and you won't die for everyone to resurrect you. But hey, only truly evil DMs would use a player's inability to breathe as a tool against them. :smallbiggrin:

Flash- This is definitely (Su). Teleporting is not something anyone can do normally. That said, this is a really nice ability and I'm glad you added it in.

True Seeing- Perfect. Strong, useful.


So the problem I have, as you can see clearly demonstrated, is your complete lack of balance between offensive and defensive abilities. I know that ascetics are primarily monks, and the monk is supposed to be some kind of turtle of a class, but most players don't want to play tanks. They want to bash faces in or poison or something else that is very very action-based and not passive at all.

[Kenneth]

WHat would you recommend for offensive abilities ?

I just know that the majority of peopel that complain about VoP always refer to the defensive aspect (or lack thereof)



THis was meant for more than the cleric but for any class as thinking a bit more leeway than teh old VoP, allowign holy synbolbs ( ya know not platinum ones but wodden) and spellbooks etc..


I wanted to keep a balance of getting some things a bit behind what a standr char would get via magic items and having a few a bit earlier.


I think I understand by what you mean by X being out of order. I typed this up from thought and from memory of what teh old VoP was and went form there, keeping in mind the bases I wanted to be covered and things came to me at different times though i did ty my best to keep most of it in order :)

[NeoSeraphi]

For offensive abilities? Some kind of Smite Evil effect, and definitely some kind of shatter or Improved Sunder ability. (You are literally the only player in the game who does not care about loot. Sunder rules were made for you)

Ravages are also extremely useful (They're "good poisons" that work on demons and undead, even though those guys are immune to poisons). Possibly adding some kind of ravage to all your natural/manufactured attacks? (Like the Touch of Golden Ice feat) All of this is from the Book of Exalted Deeds.

Also, some kind of greater dispel magic SLA would be useful, or, if you wanted to be the absolute master of poverty, disjunction once per day. Your teammates will hate you, but no big bad will pose a threat to you ever again.

[Kenneth]

HOLY CRAP i just thought of this...


what about giving VoP some cool Devoted Spirit strikes?

kinda fits or some such I would think
and for me a dispell magic/disjunction power is a bit too much. its about forskaing material weath and just needing one's self.. not denying other their shineys.

[NeoSeraphi]

HOLY CRAP i just thought of this...


what about giving VoP some cool Devoted Spirit strikes?

kinda fits or some such I would think
and for me a dispell magic/disjunction power is a bit too much. its about forskaing material weath and just needing one's self.. not denying other their shineys.

Devoted Spirit would definitely work, but remember that not all of the people who take your Vow will be melee. You should offer some archer/magic options as well.

[Kenneth]

Ive alwasy just allowed any of the ToB stuff to be used for ranged weapons as well so thats no biggie.. never made anysense to me that they never allowed that to begin with. but then again 90% of what WoTC did with 3rd ed never made any sense to me...

[Kenneth]

Ok here is my NEW NEW version of Vow Of Poverty. I attempted to make a table.. but having to keep track of all of these random bonuses takes a lot of looking form document a to document B and finally transporting it into a table. Maybe tomorrow I shall have the time to do the Table.. just can't get one right at this hour, my apologies.

I added in some offensive abilities and arranged things in the correct order, I hope i succeeded



Force Armor (Su): At 1st level you gain a +4 armor bonus to AC. This bonus increases to +5 at 3rd level, and increases by +1 every three levels thereafter. This bonus does not apply to touch attacks, but does apply to incorporeal touch attacks and brilliant energy weapons.
Deflection (Su): At 2nd level you gain a +2 deflection bonus to AC. This bonus increases to +3 at 5th level, and by an additional +1 every 3 levels thereafter.
Natural Armor (Ex): At 3rd level you gain a +2 bonus to natural armor. This bonus increases by +1 at 6th level and every 3 levels thereafter.
Endure Elements (Ex): At 3rd level you become immune to the effects of being in a hot or cold environment. You can exist comfortably in conditions between -50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit without having to make Fortitude saves (as described int the Dungeon Master's Guide).
Chastising Strike (Ex):At 3rd level any melee weapon or thrown weapon is treated as effecting a creature with Golden Ice upon a successfull Attack. At 4th level the first attack you do against an evil opponent deals an extra 2d6 damage plus an addition 1d6 for every 4th level afterwards.. At 5th level you can instead of dealing damage make a sunder attaempt on your oppoenent gaining a +1 bonus to the opposed roll for every 5th level. At 8th level every attack you deal against an evil oppoent deal an extra 4d4 divine fire damage. at 13th level once per encounter a successful attack you deal heals yourself or an ally withing 10 feet for 3d6 points of damage plus 1 per level to a max of 3d6+20. At 17th Level you can make one attack per encounter sacrificing 1 point of constituyion (which returns with rest) to gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls and deal 1d8 points of damage for every 2 levels, if the subject should die from this attack, they explode in a 20 foot radius dealing half as much damage to all evil beings around them and healing good beings for this same amount (the half amount that is)
Empowered Strike (Su): At 4th level you gain a +1 enhancement bonus on all attack and damage rolls. In effect, any weapon you wield functions as a +1 magic weapon, and can overcome the damage reduction of a creature as though it were a magic weapon. This enhancement increases by +1 at 8th level and every 4 levels thereafter. At 10th level any weapon you wield is considered to have the Holy weapon enchantment, in addition the weapon is considered adamantine for purposes of overcoming damage reduction.. At 7th level any weapon you wield is considered to have one of the following elemental weapon enchants, acidic burst, flaming burst, icy burst, shocking burst, as well as being considered silver and cold-iron for purposes of overcoming damage reduction.. At 12th level, and again every 4 levels thereafter, choose one of the following magic weapon special abilities to apply to any weapon you wield: Bane, Defending, Ghost Touch, Keen, Ki Focus, Spell Storing, Throwing, Vicious.
Ability Score Enhancement (Ex): At 4th level you gain a +2 enhancement bonus to one ability score. At 8th level and every four levels thereafter you gain a +2 enhancement bonus to an additional ability score, and each previous ability's enhancement increases by +2.
Resistance (Ex): At 4th level you gain a +1 resistance bonus to saving throws. This bonus increases by +1 at 8th level and every 4 levels thereafter.
Sustenance (Ex): At 5th level you no longer need to eat or drink.
Bonus Feats: At 3rd, 5th, 7th, 11th, 13th, 17th, and 19th levels you gain a bonus feat. You must meet all prerequisites for the feat.
Regeneration (Ex): at 5th level you gain fast healing 1, this increase by 1 every 5th level afterwards. Starting at 17th level you gain regeneration 1/evil
Flight (Ex): At 6th level you grow wings and gain a fly speed equal to your base land speed with average maneuverability. At 12th level this becomes good maneuverability, and at 18th level it increases again to double your base land speed with perfect maneuverability.
Energy Resistance (Ex): At 6th level you gain resistance 5 against acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic energy. This increases to resistance 10 at 12th level and resistance 15 at 28th level.
Fortification (Ex): Starting at 7th level, when you are affected by a sneak attack or critical hit you have a chance to negate the effect and take normal damage, depending on level: 7th: 25% 11th: 50% 15th: 75% 19th: 100%.
Mind Shielding (Ex): At 8th level you become immune to detect thoughts, discern lies, and any attempt to discern your alignment. At 16th level you gain a permanent Mind Blank effect.
Virtuous Aegis (Ex): you gain true miss chance equal to 10% at level 10, increasing by 5% every 5 levels afterwards, to a max of 20% at level 20.
Damage Reduction (Ex): You gain damage reduction 3/- at 10th level. At 15th level this increases to 8/- At 20th level this increases to 13/-
Spell Resistance (Ex): Starting at 11th level you gain spell resistance equal to your character level + 10, against spells of a harmful or detrimental nature.
Inviolate Body (Ex): At 12th level you become immune to Death Effects, at 16th level you are immune to energy drain and negative levels
Greater Sustenance (Ex): At 12th level you no longer need to breath.
Freedom of Movement (Ex): Starting at 14th level you can act as if continually under the effect of a freedom of movement spell.
Flash (Su): At 14 th level you can Teleport up to 100 feet away as a standard action.
True Seeing (Ex): At 18th level you gain a continuous true seeing ability, as the spell.

[Noctis Vigil]

I'm fairly certain you meant to give them energy resistance 15 at 18th level, not 28th. Also, why no bonus feat at level 9 or 15? At some point you need to state what your limit is on what you can own. Personally, I always made it "you can own no more than what your character can carry as a medium load, and may not own magical items", but that's just me. Also, you should clean up Chastising Strike and Empowered Strike to make them more clear; the wording is kind of confusing on them.

And for the love of all that's holy, make a table! Seriously, it would help, and you'll get more PEACHing.

[Kenneth]

Vow Of Poverty
You have given up the pursuit of worldly goods, for personal, ascetic, or charitable reasons. In exchange you gain insight about the multiverse and access to your inner power.
Prerequisites: You must give away all worldly goods save what is necessary for your survival and your trade. You are disallowed to own, or wear any amount of objects, items, or creations that in total exceed 10 gold +2 gold per level, maxing out at 50 gold total at 20th level,. Further more the owning of any magical items is strictly forbidden. Breaking these rules make you ineligible for this feat , causing you to lose the benefits of this feat as well as suffering from the feects of a Bestow Curse spell, even if immune to such effects. Only personal atonement can remove this curse, not the spell, actual atonement.
Benefits: You gain the following benefits depending on your ECL, as indicated on the table below.

{table=head]Level | Benefit
1st|Force Armor +4
2nd| Deflection +2
3rd| Force Armor +5, Natural Armor +2, Endure Elements, Chastising Strike (Golden ice), Bonus Feat
4th| Empowered Strike +1, Ability Score Enhancement +2, Resistance +1, Chastising Strike +2d6
5th| Defelction +3, Chastising Strike (Sunder +1), Sustenance, Fast Healing 1 Bonus Feat
6th| Force Armor +6, Natural Armor +3, Flight (Base Land Speed, Average Maneuverability), Energy Resistance (5)
7th| Empowered Strike (Elemental), Bonus Feat, Fortification (25%), DR 3/-
8th| Deflection +4, Chastising Strike +3d6,Chastising Strike (4d4 divine fire) Empowered Strike +2, Ability Score Enhancement +4/+2, Resistance +2, Mind Shielding
9th| Force Armor +7, Natural Armor +4
10th|Deflection +5 Empowered Strike (Holy), Chastising Strike (Sunder +2), Energy Resistance (5), Fast Healing 2, Virtuous Aegis 10%
11th| Bonus Feat, Fortification (50%), Spell Resistance
12th| Force Armor +8, Natural Armor +5, Chastising Strike +4d6, Empowered Strike +3, Empowered Strike (Special ability), Ability Score Enhancement +6/+4/+2, Resistance +3, Flight (Good Maneuverability), Greater Sustenance, Energy Resistance (10), Inviolate Body
13th| Bonus Feat, Chastising Strike (3d6+1/level heal)Deflection +6, DR 8/-
14th| Freedom of Movement, Flash
15th| Force Armor +9, Chastising Strike (Sunder +3), Empowered Strike (Special Ability), Fortification (75%), Energy Resistance (10), Fast Healing 3, Virtuous Aegis 15%
16th| Deflection +7, Empowered Strike +4, Empowered Strike (Special ability),Ability Score Enhancement +8/+6/+4/+2, Chastising Strike +5d6, Resistance +4, Mind Shielding (Mind Blank), Inviolate Body
17th| Bonus Feat, Chastising Strike (Sacrificial Strike), Regeneration 1/evil
18th| Force Armor +10, Flight (Double Speed, Perfect Maneuverability), True Seeing, Energy Resistance (15)
19th| Deflection +8, Fortification (100%), DR 13/-
20th| Empowered Strike +5, Empowered Strike (Special ability),Ability Score Enhancement +10/+8/+6/+4/+2, Resistance +5, Chastising Strike (Sunder +4), Energy Resistance (15), Chastising Strike +6d6, Fast Healing 4, Virtuous Aegis 20%
[/table]



Force Armor (Su): At 1st level you gain a +4 armor bonus to AC. This bonus increases to +5 at 3rd level, and increases by +1 every three levels thereafter. This bonus does not apply to touch attacks, but does apply to incorporeal touch attacks and brilliant energy weapons.
Deflection (Su): At 2nd level you gain a +2 deflection bonus to AC. This bonus increases to +3 at 5th level, and by an additional +1 every 3 levels thereafter.
Natural Armor (Ex): At 3rd level you gain a +2 bonus to natural armor. This bonus increases by +1 at 6th level and every 3 levels thereafter.
Endure Elements (Ex): At 3rd level you become immune to the effects of being in a hot or cold environment. You can exist comfortably in conditions between -50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit without having to make Fortitude saves (as described int the Dungeon Master's Guide).
Chastising Strike (Ex):At 3rd level any melee weapon or thrown weapon is treated as effecting a creature with Golden Ice upon a successfull Attack. At 4th level the first attack you do against an evil opponent deals an extra 2d6 damage plus an addition 1d6 for every 4th level afterwards.. At 5th level you can instead of dealing damage make a sunder attaempt on your oppoenent gaining a +1 bonus to the opposed roll for every 5th level. At 8th level every attack you deal against an evil oppoent deal an extra 4d4 divine fire damage. at 13th level once per encounter a successful attack you deal heals yourself or an ally withing 10 feet for 3d6 points of damage plus 1 per level to a max of 3d6+20. At 17th Level you gain sacrificial stike and can make one attack per encounter sacrificing 4 points of constitution (which returns with rest per normal rate) to gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls and deal 1d8 points of damage for every 2 levels, if the subject should die from this attack, they explode in a 20 foot radius dealing half as much damage to all evil beings around them and healing good beings for this same amount (the half amount that is)
Empowered Strike (Su): At 4th level you gain a +1 enhancement bonus on all attack and damage rolls. In effect, any weapon you wield functions as a +1 magic weapon, and can overcome the damage reduction of a creature as though it were a magic weapon. This enhancement increases by +1 at 8th level and every 4 levels thereafter. At 10th level any weapon you wield is considered to have the Holy weapon enchantment, in addition the weapon is considered adamantine for purposes of overcoming damage reduction.. At 7th level any weapon you wield is considered to have one of the following elemental weapon enchants, acidic burst, flaming burst, icy burst, shocking burst, as well as being considered silver and cold-iron for purposes of overcoming damage reduction.. At 12th level, and again every 4 levels thereafter, choose one of the following magic weapon special abilities to apply to any weapon you wield: Bane, Defending, Ghost Touch, Keen, Ki Focus, Spell Storing, Throwing, Vicious.
Ability Score Enhancement (Ex): At 4th level you gain a +2 Insight bonus to one ability score. At 8th level and every four levels thereafter you gain a +2 Insight bonus to an additional ability score, and each previous ability's Insight increases by +2.
Resistance (Ex): At 4th level you gain a +1 resistance bonus to saving throws. This bonus increases by +1 at 8th level and every 4 levels thereafter.
Sustenance (Ex): At 5th level you no longer need to eat or drink.
Bonus Feats: At 3rd, 5th, 7th, 11th, 13th, 17th, and 19th levels you gain a bonus feat. You must meet all prerequisites for the feat.
Regeneration (Ex): at 5th level you gain fast healing 1, this increase by 1 every 5th level afterwards. Starting at 17th level you gain regeneration 1/evil
Flight (Ex): At 6th level you grow wings and gain a fly speed equal to your base land speed with average maneuverability. At 12th level this becomes good maneuverability, and at 18th level it increases again to double your base land speed with perfect maneuverability.
Energy Resistance (Ex): At 6th level you gain resistance 5 against acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic energy. This increases to resistance 10 at 12th level and resistance 15 at 18th level.
Fortification (Ex): Starting at 7th level, when you are affected by a sneak attack or critical hit you have a chance to negate the effect and take normal damage, depending on level: 7th: 25% 11th: 50% 15th: 75% 19th: 100%.
Mind Shielding (Ex): At 8th level you become immune to detect thoughts, discern lies, and any attempt to discern your alignment. At 16th level you gain a permanent Mind Blank effect.
Virtuous Aegis (Ex): you gain true miss chance equal to 10% at level 10, increasing by 5% every 5 levels afterwards, to a max of 20% at level 20.
Damage Reduction (Ex): You gain damage reduction 3/- at 7th level. At 13th level this increases to 8/- At 19th level this increases to 13/-
Spell Resistance (Ex): Starting at 11th level you gain spell resistance equal to your character level + 10, against spells of a harmful or detrimental nature.
Inviolate Body (Ex): At 12th level you become immune to Death Effects, at 16th level you are immune to energy drain and negative levels
Greater Sustenance (Ex): At 12th level you no longer need to breath.
Freedom of Movement (Ex): Starting at 14th level you can act as if continually under the effect of a freedom of movement spell.
Flash (Su): At 14 th level you can Teleport up to 100 feet away as a standard action.
True Seeing (Ex): At 18th level you gain a continuous true seeing ability, as the spell.

[Kenneth]

I was Lied to... I put a table in and not only did I not get any more critques... but nobody even so much as glanced at it.. except myself of course..



being lied to makes me cry.

[NeoSeraphi]

Alright, alright. I already PEACHed this once, but I can't deny a homebrewer's bumping cry for PEACH, so here we go again...

Is this still an Exalted feat with the Sacred Vow feat as a prerequisite? If it is, you should know that all of the abilities your feat offers are supernatural. It doesn't matter what they do. Exalted feats are granted by the power of Good itself, and are therefore, supernatural and vanish in an anti-magic field. (Yet another reason Vow of Poverty is not good enough to replace lack of gear)

Bestow curse has like four different effects, only one of which the caster chooses to invoke when the spell is cast. If you're going to curse your feat-takers, please specify which curse they receive.

Chastising Strike: Golden Ice at low levels is useful. However, if you remove the Exalted quality from this feat, you're going to have to remove Golden Ice as well, as that can only be used by Good creatures. Same with the holy weapon property, and the Regen/Evil.

AS Enhancement : Oh ho ho! An insight bonus, eh? Now there's a reason to take this feat, a whopping +8 to your primary ability score that will stack with most ability enhancing spells/powers! A nice touch.

Inviolate Body: Grant immunity to ability damage/drain here as well. Because why not.

So, all in all, a good feat, still. Hope that my critique has helped you clean it up a bit.

[Mystic Muse]

I was Lied to... I put a table in and not only did I not get any more critques... but nobody even so much as glanced at it.. except myself of course..



being lied to makes me cry.

You've been waiting two days. I've been waiting Twenty two days for a response I still haven't received. Sometimes it takes a while for people to respond or take interest. Please be patient.

Also, you should put the table in the opening post. As-is, I didn't even know it existed until I read the entire thread.

"Immunity to Negative levels" bugs me for some reason. "Immunity to energy drain." is the standard, but that might not work against things like Enervation, which is a bit of a problem.

[Simba]

being lied to makes me cry.

Don't cry, Kenny!

I read this, then I re-read it. Then I read it again and I still like it. You had good ideas and a great PEACHer, one I can only agree to. 'Nuff said.

If you are ok with it I will add this as the version of VoP players will get in my games. I might rename it, though.:smallcool:

[Kenneth]

I no cry anymore!

aww 22 days.. if only I knew what you were waiting on feedback for... I bake you cupcakes now?

thanks again for teh even cooler feedback neo seraphi!

And yes this is still the same feat that requires sacred vow as a prereq, so no evil illegitimates being able to get this. (free pie if you get that reference)

maybe in teh OLD days the VoP stuff was all SU.. but I was like.. thats not fair nothing you have is magic so why does AMF shaft you so hard? you should be all like ' whut anti magic lol i kill them now!" SO i made as Many abilities ( at one point all of them, but guess neo seraphi was right that some of them just scream ''ey yo, im supahnatrual!") Extraordinary, as to me its not really getting a boost through magical means its the inherent goodness of the universe is enhancing you own prowess of goodness.

ANd yes I was readin the old VoP description ans saw the line where it said something about insight and increasing your own prowess so i was liek 'time to go insight on these mo fo evil fools!"

also i am fine with you using any feat, class or PrV ive made in any of your games.. just give credit is all I ask :) I shall do likewise.


The main thing in my mind while redoing this VoP was the drawbacks being mitigated, WHile I feel that a character that has access to magical items is still a bit ahead in terms of magical item utility and enhancement ( minus the extra feats of course) THis version of VoP has 2 incredibly strong points ( 3 actually thanks for neo seraphi i'll go into that detail later)

#1 The giant stat bonuses.. you cannot ignore +8/+6/+4/+2 to you stats that is going to stack with literally anything else that buff those in the game, ( ive looked and there is no other insight source to stats in the game, short of some other homebrewed source)

#2 Since the majority of their cool stuffs is extraordinary, they do not have to worry about things such as dispel magic, disjunction or anti-magic fields. I do not need toexplain much on how cool this is.

and thanks to Neoseraphi we have a #3 VoP now gives some cool offensive power, while chastining strike +xd6 is basically a refluffed version of that one devoted spirit strike, as is teh healing one.. dealing 4d4 divine fire dmg per attack is nothing to sneeze at at the very least you are dealing 2d4 divine damage, a tupe of damage that is all but irresistable... and if that was not enough If you self sacririce soem as this feat is all about self sacrifice you deal Xd8 more dmg, tht ha the possibilty to turn into a fireball of doom for eavil or of woots heelz! for good. yaay versatility!

[NeoSeraphi]

Incidentally, since you commented on it, I'll tell you about the incredibly powerful druid spell owl's insight from the Spell Compendium. It is a 5th level druid-only spell that gives one creature touched an insight bonus to their Wisdom score equal to 1/2 your caster level. (So a +10 insight bonus to Wis at CL 20. It's incredible)

[Kenneth]

WOW!! i have gotten a lot of requests from people asking too use this in their real life game! lol all of the classes and other randoms rules ive made and a simple feat is what I get my only reqyest to use form :) makes me happy that something I did is worthwhile to others on the GiTp forums as ive foudn the vast majority fo them are the total opposite of myself and teh people i game with in terms of playstyle, and humor (but that is aother story altogether) anyways.. i tidy the feat up and actually corrected some spelling issues this time, hopeing that it is a bit more clearer to read and understand. anywyas big thanks to everybody for wanting to use this and making a radnom anonymous person on the internet very happy :)


Vow Of Poverty
You have given up the pursuit of worldly goods, for personal, ascetic, or charitable reasons. In exchange you gain insight about the multiverse and access to your inner power.
Prerequisites: Sacred Vow.
Special: You must give away all worldly goods save what is necessary for your survival and your trade. You are disallowed to own, or wear any amount of objects, items, or creations that in total exceed 10 gold +2 gold per level, maxing out at 50 gold total at 20th level,. Further more the owning or wearing of any magical items is strictly forbidden. Breaking these rules make you ineligible for this feat , causing you to lose the benefits of this feat as well as suffering from all three effects of a Bestow Curse spell, even if immune to such effects. Only personal atonement can remove this curse, not the spell, actual atonement.
Benefits: You gain the following benefits depending on your ECL, as indicated on the table below.

{table=head]Level | Benefit
1st|Force Armor +4
2nd| Deflection +2
3rd| Force Armor +5, Natural Armor +2, Endure Elements, Chastising Strike (Golden ice), Bonus Feat
4th| Empowered Strike +1, Ability Score Enhancement +2, Resistance +1, Chastising Strike +2d6
5th| Deflection +3, Chastising Strike (Sunder +1), Sustenance, Fast Healing 1 Bonus Feat
6th| Force Armor +6, Natural Armor +3, Flight (Base Land Speed, Average Maneuverability), Energy Resistance (5)
7th| Empowered Strike (Elemental), Bonus Feat, Fortification (25%), DR 3/-
8th| Deflection +4, Chastising Strike +3d6,Chastising Strike (4d4 divine fire) Empowered Strike +2, Ability Score Enhancement +4/+2, Resistance +2, Mind Shielding
9th| Force Armor +7, Natural Armor +4
10th|Deflection +5 Empowered Strike (Holy), Chastising Strike (Sunder +2), Energy Resistance (5), Fast Healing 2, Virtuous Aegis 10%
11th| Bonus Feat, Fortification (50%), Spell Resistance
12th| Force Armor +8, Natural Armor +5, Chastising Strike +4d6, Empowered Strike +3, Empowered Strike (Special ability), Ability Score Enhancement +6/+4/+2, Resistance +3, Flight (Good Maneuverability), Greater Sustenance, Energy Resistance (10), Inviolate Body
13th| Bonus Feat, Chastising Strike (3d6+1/level heal)Deflection +6, DR 8/-
14th| Freedom of Movement, Flash
15th| Force Armor +9, Chastising Strike (Sunder +3), Empowered Strike (Special Ability), Fortification (75%), Energy Resistance (10), Fast Healing 3, Virtuous Aegis 15%
16th| Deflection +7, Empowered Strike +4, Empowered Strike (Special ability),Ability Score Enhancement +8/+6/+4/+2, Chastising Strike +5d6, Resistance +4, Mind Shielding (Mind Blank), Inviolate Body
17th| Bonus Feat, Chastising Strike (Sacrificial Strike), Regeneration 1/evil
18th| Force Armor +10, Flight (Double Speed, Perfect Maneuverability), True Seeing, Energy Resistance (15)
19th| Deflection +8, Fortification (100%), DR 13/-
20th| Empowered Strike +5, Empowered Strike (Special ability),Ability Score Enhancement +10/+8/+6/+4/+2, Resistance +5, Chastising Strike (Sunder +4), Energy Resistance (15), Chastising Strike +6d6, Fast Healing 4, Virtuous Aegis 20%
[/table]



Force Armor (Su): At 1st level you gain a +4 armor bonus to AC. This bonus increases to +5 at 3rd level, and increases by +1 every three levels thereafter. This bonus does not apply to touch attacks, but does apply to incorporeal touch attacks and brilliant energy weapons.
Deflection (Su): At 2nd level you gain a +2 deflection bonus to AC. This bonus increases to +3 at 5th level, and by an additional +1 every 3 levels thereafter.
Natural Armor (Ex): At 3rd level you gain a +2 bonus to natural armor. This bonus increases by +1 at 6th level and every 3 levels thereafter.
Endure Elements (Ex): At 3rd level you become immune to the effects of being in a hot or cold environment. You can exist comfortably in conditions between -50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit without having to make Fortitude saves (as described in the Dungeon Master's Guide).
Chastising Strike (Ex):At 3rd level any melee weapon or thrown weapon is treated as effecting a creature with Golden Ice upon a successful Attack. At 4th level the first attack you do against an evil opponent deals an extra 2d6 damage plus an addition 1d6 for every 4th level afterwards.. At 5th level you can instead of dealing damage make a sunder attempt on your opponent gaining a +1 bonus to the opposed roll for every 5th level. At 8th level every attack you deal against an evil opponent deal an extra 4d4 divine fire damage. at 13th level once per encounter a successful attack you deal heals yourself or an ally within 10 feet for 3d6 points of damage plus 1 per level to a max of 3d6+20. At 17th Level you gain sacrificial strike and can make one attack per encounter sacrificing 4 points of constitution (which returns with rest per normal rate) to gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls and deal 1d8 points of damage for every 2 levels, if the subject should die from this attack, they explode in a 20 foot radius dealing half as much damage to all evil beings around them and healing good beings for this same amount (the half amount that is)
Empowered Strike (Su): At 4th level you gain a +1 enhancement bonus on all attack and damage rolls. In effect, any weapon you wield functions as a +1 magic weapon, and can overcome the damage reduction of a creature as though it were a magic weapon. This enhancement increases by +1 at 8th level and every 4 levels thereafter. At 10th level any weapon you wield is considered to have the Holy weapon enchantment, in addition the weapon is considered adamantine for purposes of overcoming damage reduction.. At 7th level any weapon you wield is considered to have one of the following elemental weapon enchants, acidic burst, flaming burst, icy burst, shocking burst, as well as being considered silver and cold-iron for purposes of overcoming damage reduction.. At 12th level, and again every 4 levels thereafter, choose one of the following magic weapon special abilities to apply to any weapon you wield: Bane, Defending, Ghost Touch, Keen, Ki Focus, Spell Storing, Throwing, Vicious.
Ability Score Enhancement (Ex): At 4th level you gain a +2 Insight bonus to one ability score. At 8th level and every four levels thereafter you gain a +2 Insight bonus to an additional ability score, and each previous ability's Insight increases by +2.
Resistance (Ex): At 4th level you gain a +1 resistance bonus to saving throws. This bonus increases by +1 at 8th level and every 4 levels thereafter.
Sustenance (Ex): At 5th level you no longer need to eat or drink.
Bonus Feats: At 3rd, 5th, 7th, 11th, 13th, 17th, and 19th levels you gain a bonus feat. You must meet all prerequisites for the feat.
Regeneration (Ex): at 5th level you gain fast healing 1, this increase by 1 every 5th level afterwards. Starting at 17th level you gain regeneration 1/evil
Flight (Ex): At 6th level you grow wings and gain a fly speed equal to your base land speed with average maneuverability. At 12th level this becomes good maneuverability, and at 18th level it increases again to double your base land speed with perfect maneuverability.
Energy Resistance (Ex): At 6th level you gain resistance 5 against acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic energy. This increases to resistance 10 at 12th level and resistance 15 at 18th level.
Fortification (Ex): Starting at 7th level, when you are affected by a sneak attack or critical hit you have a chance to negate the effect and take normal damage, depending on level: 7th: 25% 11th: 50% 15th: 75% 19th: 100%.
Mind Shielding (Ex): At 8th level you become immune to detect thoughts, discern lies, and any attempt to discern your alignment. At 16th level you gain a permanent Mind Blank effect.
Virtuous Aegis (Ex): you gain true miss chance equal to 10% at level 10, increasing by 5% every 5 levels afterwards, to a max of 20% at level 20.
Damage Reduction (Ex): You gain damage reduction 3/- at 7th level. At 13th level this increases to 8/- At 19th level this increases to 13/-
Spell Resistance (Ex): Starting at 11th level you gain spell resistance equal to your character level + 10, against spells of a harmful or detrimental nature.
Inviolate Body (Ex): At 12th level you become immune to Death Effects, at 16th level you are immune to energy drain and negative levels
Greater Sustenance (Ex): At 12th level you no longer need to breath.
Freedom of Movement (Ex): Starting at 14th level you can act as if continually under the effect of a freedom of movement spell.
Flash (Su): At 14th level you can Teleport up to 100 feet away as a standard action.
True Seeing (Ex): At 18th level you gain a continuous true seeing ability, as the spell.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Vow Of Poverty
You have given up the pursuit of worldly goods, for personal, ascetic, or charitable reasons. In exchange you gain insight about the multiverse and access to your inner power.
Prerequisites: Sacred Vow.
Special: You must give away all worldly goods save what is necessary for your survival and your trade. You are disallowed to own, or wear any amount of objects, items, or creations that in total exceed 10 gold +2 gold per level, maxing out at 50 gold total at 20th level,. Further more the owning or wearing of any magical items is strictly forbidden. Breaking these rules make you ineligible for this feat , causing you to lose the benefits of this feat as well as suffering from all three effects of a Bestow Curse spell, even if immune to such effects. Only personal atonement can remove this curse, not the spell, actual atonement.
Benefits: You gain the following benefits depending on your ECL, as indicated on the table below.

{table=head]Level | Benefit
1st|Force Armor +4
2nd| Deflection +2
3rd| Force Armor +5, Natural Armor +2, Endure Elements, Chastising Strike (Golden ice), Bonus Feat
4th| Empowered Strike +1, Ability Score Enhancement +2, Resistance +1, Chastising Strike +2d6
5th| Deflection +3, Chastising Strike (Sunder +1), Sustenance, Fast Healing 1 Bonus Feat
6th| Force Armor +6, Natural Armor +3, Flight (Base Land Speed, Average Maneuverability), Energy Resistance (5)
7th| Empowered Strike (Elemental), Bonus Feat, Fortification (25%), DR 3/-
8th| Deflection +4, Chastising Strike +3d6,Chastising Strike (4d4 divine fire) Empowered Strike +2, Ability Score Enhancement +4/+2, Resistance +2, Mind Shielding
9th| Force Armor +7, Natural Armor +4
10th|Deflection +5 Empowered Strike (Holy), Chastising Strike (Sunder +2), Energy Resistance (5), Fast Healing 2, Virtuous Aegis 10%
11th| Bonus Feat, Fortification (50%), Spell Resistance
12th| Force Armor +8, Natural Armor +5, Chastising Strike +4d6, Empowered Strike +3, Empowered Strike (Special ability), Ability Score Enhancement +6/+4/+2, Resistance +3, Flight (Good Maneuverability), Greater Sustenance, Energy Resistance (10), Inviolate Body
13th| Bonus Feat, Chastising Strike (3d6+1/level heal)Deflection +6, DR 8/-
14th| Freedom of Movement, Flash
15th| Force Armor +9, Chastising Strike (Sunder +3), Empowered Strike (Special Ability), Fortification (75%), Energy Resistance (10), Fast Healing 3, Virtuous Aegis 15%
16th| Deflection +7, Empowered Strike +4, Empowered Strike (Special ability),Ability Score Enhancement +8/+6/+4/+2, Chastising Strike +5d6, Resistance +4, Mind Shielding (Mind Blank), Inviolate Body
17th| Bonus Feat, Chastising Strike (Sacrificial Strike), Regeneration 1/evil
18th| Force Armor +10, Flight (Double Speed, Perfect Maneuverability), True Seeing, Energy Resistance (15)
19th| Deflection +8, Fortification (100%), DR 13/-
20th| Empowered Strike +5, Empowered Strike (Special ability),Ability Score Enhancement +10/+8/+6/+4/+2, Resistance +5, Chastising Strike (Sunder +4), Energy Resistance (15), Chastising Strike +6d6, Fast Healing 4, Virtuous Aegis 20%
[/table]



Force Armor (Su): At 1st level you gain a +4 armor bonus to AC. This bonus increases to +5 at 3rd level, and increases by +1 every three levels thereafter. This bonus does not apply to touch attacks, but does apply to incorporeal touch attacks and brilliant energy weapons.
Deflection (Su): At 2nd level you gain a +2 deflection bonus to AC. This bonus increases to +3 at 5th level, and by an additional +1 every 3 levels thereafter.
Natural Armor (Ex): At 3rd level you gain a +2 bonus to natural armor. This bonus increases by +1 at 6th level and every 3 levels thereafter.
Endure Elements (Ex): At 3rd level you become immune to the effects of being in a hot or cold environment. You can exist comfortably in conditions between -50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit without having to make Fortitude saves (as described in the Dungeon Master's Guide).
Chastising Strike (Ex):At 3rd level any melee weapon or thrown weapon is treated as effecting a creature with Golden Ice upon a successful Attack. At 4th level the first attack you do against an evil opponent deals an extra 2d6 damage plus an addition 1d6 for every 4th level afterwards.. At 5th level you can instead of dealing damage make a sunder attempt on your opponent gaining a +1 bonus to the opposed roll for every 5th level. At 8th level every attack you deal against an evil opponent deal an extra 4d4 divine fire damage. at 13th level once per encounter a successful attack you deal heals yourself or an ally within 10 feet for 3d6 points of damage plus 1 per level to a max of 3d6+20. At 17th Level you gain sacrificial strike and can make one attack per encounter sacrificing 4 points of constitution (which returns with rest per normal rate) to gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls and deal 1d8 points of damage for every 2 levels, if the subject should die from this attack, they explode in a 20 foot radius dealing half as much damage to all evil beings around them and healing good beings for this same amount (the half amount that is)
Empowered Strike (Su): At 4th level you gain a +1 enhancement bonus on all attack and damage rolls. In effect, any weapon you wield functions as a +1 magic weapon, and can overcome the damage reduction of a creature as though it were a magic weapon. This enhancement increases by +1 at 8th level and every 4 levels thereafter. At 10th level any weapon you wield is considered to have the Holy weapon enchantment, in addition the weapon is considered adamantine for purposes of overcoming damage reduction.. At 7th level any weapon you wield is considered to have one of the following elemental weapon enchants, acidic burst, flaming burst, icy burst, shocking burst, as well as being considered silver and cold-iron for purposes of overcoming damage reduction.. At 12th level, and again every 4 levels thereafter, choose one of the following magic weapon special abilities to apply to any weapon you wield: Bane, Defending, Ghost Touch, Keen, Ki Focus, Spell Storing, Throwing, Vicious.
Ability Score Enhancement (Ex): At 4th level you gain a +2 Insight bonus to one ability score. At 8th level and every four levels thereafter you gain a +2 Insight bonus to an additional ability score, and each previous ability's Insight increases by +2.
Resistance (Ex): At 4th level you gain a +1 resistance bonus to saving throws. This bonus increases by +1 at 8th level and every 4 levels thereafter.
Sustenance (Ex): At 5th level you no longer need to eat or drink.
Bonus Feats: At 3rd, 5th, 7th, 11th, 13th, 17th, and 19th levels you gain a bonus feat. You must meet all prerequisites for the feat.
Regeneration (Ex): at 5th level you gain fast healing 1, this increase by 1 every 5th level afterwards. Starting at 17th level you gain regeneration 1/evil
Flight (Ex): At 6th level you grow wings and gain a fly speed equal to your base land speed with average maneuverability. At 12th level this becomes good maneuverability, and at 18th level it increases again to double your base land speed with perfect maneuverability.
Energy Resistance (Ex): At 6th level you gain resistance 5 against acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic energy. This increases to resistance 10 at 12th level and resistance 15 at 18th level.
Fortification (Ex): Starting at 7th level, when you are affected by a sneak attack or critical hit you have a chance to negate the effect and take normal damage, depending on level: 7th: 25% 11th: 50% 15th: 75% 19th: 100%.
Mind Shielding (Ex): At 8th level you become immune to detect thoughts, discern lies, and any attempt to discern your alignment. At 16th level you gain a permanent Mind Blank effect.
Virtuous Aegis (Ex): you gain true miss chance equal to 10% at level 10, increasing by 5% every 5 levels afterwards, to a max of 20% at level 20.
Damage Reduction (Ex): You gain damage reduction 3/- at 7th level. At 13th level this increases to 8/- At 19th level this increases to 13/-
Spell Resistance (Ex): Starting at 11th level you gain spell resistance equal to your character level + 10, against spells of a harmful or detrimental nature.
Inviolate Body (Ex): At 12th level you become immune to Death Effects, at 16th level you are immune to energy drain and negative levels
Greater Sustenance (Ex): At 12th level you no longer need to breath.
Freedom of Movement (Ex): Starting at 14th level you can act as if continually under the effect of a freedom of movement spell.
Flash (Su): At 14th level you can Teleport up to 100 feet away as a standard action.
True Seeing (Ex): At 18th level you gain a continuous true seeing ability, as the spell.

A few comments on this.

Firstly, you've added some really nice features. That's great. But there are a few hugely glaring issues.

First is the Insight bonuses to ability scores. That's incredibly OP on a caster, who can do the following: +10 from this, a base of, say, 16, +5 from levels, +6 from Enhancements, and maybe a +3 from Wish. That's a score of 40, or +15 to a spell's DC. That will get out of hand. I see no reason not to make that an Enhancement bonus like everything else: if you don't, it just screams for people to min-max it.

(Ex) flight is also something that is never given without wings, natural buoyancy, or something similar. I'd conform to tradition here, as it's really bizarre without an explanation.

It might be worth reminding people how Fast Healing and Regeneration interact when you have both of them, since that's something most PCs don't know off the top of their heads.

The level 4 ability of Chastising Strike isn't clear: is that the first attack period (1 per opponent), or the first attack each round? Clean up that wording, and maybe consider splitting Chastising Strike into a number of separate abilities. It's a bit clunky as you've written it, as one ability has both per encounter, per attack, and always-on abilities.

Why bother with Endure Elements when, 2 levels later, you gain Energy Resistance, which basically does the same thing?

Finally, I sort of want to see a 20th level capstone ability that, say, makes you immortal (i.e. you no longer age or die of aging), and makes you an Outsider (good, native). Seems appropriate.

Homebrew Post General Advice: When you change your creation, update the original post with the new version. It makes it *much* easier to see the most recent iteration of it...and that's the one you want critique on.

[NeoSeraphi]

A few comments on this.

Firstly, you've added some really nice features. That's great. But there are a few hugely glaring issues.

First is the Insight bonuses to ability scores. That's incredibly OP on a caster, who can do the following: +10 from this, a base of, say, 16, +5 from levels, +6 from Enhancements, and maybe a +3 from Wish. That's a score of 40, or +15 to a spell's DC. That will get out of hand. I see no reason not to make that an Enhancement bonus like everything else: if you don't, it just screams for people to min-max it.


How do you get +6 to a score from enhancements? The enhancement spells are all +4. And remember, the only caster who can use Vow of Poverty and has wish is the sorcerer. (Clerics can get wish from a domain, I suppose, but the lack of a holy symbol is already stealing all their best spells, and wizards can't cast wish at all)

[Noctis Vigil]

Actually, a wooden holy symbol is allowed under VoP, I believe, even at 1st level. I'd have to check the PHB for the exact price again, but I seem to recall a silver holy symbol being worth 50GP, and a wooden one being worth just a couple of gold.

And why can't the Wizard use wish with this, but the Sorcerer can? Did I miss something in the rules? :smallconfused:

And as long as someone brought it up, how do fast healing and regeneration work with each other

Also, Endure Elements and energy resistance are handled quite differently. Endure Elements flat out makes you immune to the conditions stated. Energy resistance only blocks however much damage would be caused. I seem to recall energy resistance not actually totally overcoming Endure Elements until you get at least 6 points of it, which you don't get until 12th level. Also, doesn't Endure Elements stack with other abilities that increase your natural resistance to natural heat and cold, like a couple of feats in Sandstorm?

Also also, does the spell resistance this feat offers overlap with or stack with spell resistance from other sources?

Lastly, I second the motion to have the feat make you stop aging at level 20.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

How do you get +6 to a score from enhancements? The enhancement spells are all +4. And remember, the only caster who can use Vow of Poverty and has wish is the sorcerer. (Clerics can get wish from a domain, I suppose, but the lack of a holy symbol is already stealing all their best spells, and wizards can't cast wish at all)

I'm sure there's some spell written that grants a +6 bonus to something, although I'll admit I haven't personally checked. As for the +3 from Wish...somewhere, somehow, creative PCs can access those spells. Even without that it's a 35, which is 3 higher than someone with a base of 18, +6 Enhancement, +5 from levels, and +5 from Wish. It's just to good on Casters, as that sort of DC gets *really* nasty. Save-or-Dies are already to powerful.

Also, Clerics are allowed a wooden Holy Symbol, and there's nothing barring Wizards from taking wish.

[Amechra]

There's a feat that causes Transmutation spells that grant ability score bonuses an additional +2 bonus to that ability score.

And I rather like Castigating Strike, though the one character I would ever use Vow of Poverty for (Apostle of Peace, which is my homeboy) would find that less than useful, except for the sundering, delicious, delicious sundering.

Reminds me that I need to make a Sundering Combat Technique...

I really think that you could make options for VoP; so that one character might pick up Castigating Strike, while a Caster might get Nonlethal Substitution and a couple other modifications to their spells instead.

Just my two cp

[Hellfire014]

(Ex) flight is also something that is never given without wings, natural buoyancy, or something similar. I'd conform to tradition here, as it's really bizarre without an explanation.

Here's an explanation: You ate the Rogue's cooking, and now have really, really bad gas. Your (now brown) pants now have a giant hole in the bottom, and you cannot afford a new pair. Time for a Vow of Nudity!

Also, since the old VoP was all (Su), why not turn all these features back to (Su) and give it a chance to sustain it, like a Soulknife and his mindblade:

Even in places where psionic effects do not normally function (such as within a null psionics field), a soulknife can attempt to sustain his mind blade by making a DC 20 Will save. On a successful save, the soulknife maintains his mind blade for a number of rounds equal to his class level before he needs to check again. On an unsuccessful attempt, the mind blade vanishes. As a move action on his turn, the soulknife can attempt a new Will save to rematerialize his mind blade while he remains within the psionics negating effect.

[Kenneth]

(Ex) flight is also something that is never given without wings, natural buoyancy, or something similar. I'd conform to tradition here, as it's really bizarre without an explanation.
QUOTE]

Uhh you might have misread it so I am going to post it again

[QUOTE]Flight (Ex): At 6th level you grow wings and gain a fly speed equal to your base land speed with average maneuverability. At 12th level this becomes good maneuverability, and at 18th level it increases again to double your base land speed with perfect maneuverability.

Emphasis on wings is mine.

[NeoSeraphi]

Also, Clerics are allowed a wooden Holy Symbol, and there's nothing barring Wizards from taking wish.

Ah, whoops. I forgot Kenneth's rewrite is allowing those things, I was still thinking about WotC poverty rules. :smallredface:

[Noctis Vigil]

Even by WotC rules, put the wooden holy symbol on a piece of string. Boom, it's now clothes allowed by the feat. Problem solved.

[NeoSeraphi]

Even by WotC rules, put the wooden holy symbol on a piece of string. Boom, it's now clothes allowed by the feat. Problem solved.

Not according to the designers (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20060616a).

[Kenneth]

Ah, whoops. I forgot Kenneth's rewrite is allowing those things, I was still thinking about WotC poverty rules. :smallredface:

.. i was like :smallconfused: who si this person posting in my thread and saying nice things..' then i relaized you changed your icon...

it confused me.. let a guy know next time :smallbiggrin:

anywyas yes, I do allow holy symbols and spellbooks, provided they do not go agianst the gold limit that i posted. so starting out VoP wizards are only going to have a spell book that has like 5 or 6 spells in it and clerics and paladin can only keep wooden ones..

though in defense of the old more crappy version of VoP, Cleric COULD whittle a holy symbol out of soap every day :)

[NeoSeraphi]

.. i was like :smallconfused: who si this person posting in my thread and saying nice things..' then i relaized you changed your icon...

it confused me.. let a guy know next time :smallbiggrin:

:smalltongue: You get confused by seeing nice people on the internet? "If he's on GitP and he's not a jerk, he must be NeoSeraphi!"



though in defense of the old more crappy version of VoP, Cleric COULD whittle a holy symbol out of soap every day :)

Yes, or they could get it tattooed on their body. Didn't make it any less stupid or difficult for clerics to be ascetics.

[Kenneth]

well Jiriku and Debihuman are also nice.. so really you don't hold the monopoly :)

[NeoSeraphi]

well Jiriku and Debihuman are also nice.. so really you don't hold the monopoly :)

Lots of people on this site are nice! Noctis is nice, TravelLog is cool, Wyntonian is cool, Domriso, Elfstone, bobthe6th, MorphBark, there are lots of nice people on this forum!

[Mystic Muse]

Lots of people on this site are nice! Noctis is nice, TravelLog is cool, Wyntonian is cool, Domriso, Elfstone, bobthe6th, MorphBark, there are lots of nice people on this forum!

Whereas my project and I shall die in obscurity. :smalltongue: Okay, the name changes aren't helping, but I still feel obscure. I also need to get back to working on said project.

I agree that the ability boosts are a little much, but I'm not sure how to modify them to make them better.

[Kenneth]

while some of the peeps you have noted are 'nice' i would disagree about some of them heartidyly.



also what you talkin' bout' Softserve?

considering that with all of these ability modifiers and coll substition abilities your still looking at a 35K ish drop from what a magic item using character would have access to at 20th level.

[Amechra]

I'm now curious as to what your project is, by the way.

[Mystic Muse]

also what you talkin' bout' Softserve?



I'm now curious as to what your project is, by the way.

Monsters turned into playable classes. Link in my signature under "Homebrew"

And now I feel like an arse for de-railing the thread. :smallredface:

[Kenneth]

its Ok.. all will be forgiven if you bake me a pie, cookies, or cupcakes :)

[Mystic Muse]

its Ok.. all will be forgiven if you bake me a pie, cookies, or cupcakes :)

*Gives you some chocolate chip cookies*

I agree that this needs some sort of "Paragon of X" ability. Maybe a constant protection from x ability? Upgrading to circle of protection, and then a Holy Aura-esque effect?

Not sure how good/bad that would be, just offering a possibility, or something to think about.

[Kenneth]

*Gives you some chocolate chip cookies*

I agree that this needs some sort of "Paragon of X" ability. Maybe a constant protection from x ability? Upgrading to circle of protection, and then a Holy Aura-esque effect?

Not sure how good/bad that would be, just offering a possibility, or something to think about.

NOMSNOMSNOMS the cookies!

I thought about an ability like that then i relaized that throughout teh progression of the character they get to what amounts to a super protection from evil. Id love to be able to use this feat and my homebrewec crusader in a campaign here on GiTP.. but so far only 2 games have came close to intereesting me and alas, i was not chosen for one of those and the other ended up being mostly evil characters and i have alwasy played D&D to become a hero save the maidens and baby animals kill teh bad guys and take their things.

[NeoSeraphi]

NOMSNOMSNOMS the cookies!

I thought about an ability like that then i relaized that throughout teh progression of the character they get to what amounts to a super protection from evil. Id love to be able to use this feat and my homebrewec crusader in a campaign here on GiTP.. but so far only 2 games have came close to intereesting me and alas, i was not chosen for one of those and the other ended up being mostly evil characters and i have alwasy played D&D to become a hero save the maidens and baby animals kill teh bad guys and take their things.

Why not start your own game? I'd join, if you wanted, so you'd already have one player supporting you. :smallsmile:

[Kenneth]

I thought about it.. but then I realized that only liek 5 or so people on this entire site have a playstyle similar to mine.

I guess i justd on't wanna start a game and then have peeps saying ' blargh bl;argh you suck' or some such..

besdies if I make a game.. how can I play in it.. i dislike the whole DM NPC thing a lot.

[NeoSeraphi]

I thought about it.. but then I realized that only liek 5 or so people on this entire site have a playstyle similar to mine.

I guess i justd on't wanna start a game and then have peeps saying ' blargh bl;argh you suck' or some such..

besdies if I make a game.. how can I play in it.. i dislike the whole DM NPC thing a lot.

Hm? Starting a recruitment thread doesn't mean you have to DM it. Trust, me, I know. I've started a few games since I joined and I never DMed any of them.

[Kenneth]

My reaction to your statement (http://www.demotination.com/mindblown/)

[NeoSeraphi]

My reaction to your statement (http://www.demotination.com/mindblown/)

Haha. That said, you should start a thread in the Recruitment forums with a title that includes the edition you'd like to play and "Need a DM", along with a fitting title for whatever type of game or storyline you had in mind. Also, you can check the DM Registry (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96495&page=8) thread, which will show you who is available to run which game, then you pick one or two and PM them to see if they're interested.

[Deepbluediver]

Not according to the designers (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20060616a).

Can a weapon also function as a holy symbol? If you worship a martial diety or a nature-based one that didn't mind you venerating a chunk of wood (club, staff, javelin, etc) I think you might be able to swing it, unless it's been specifically banned somewhere.

Also, when it comes to spells I know I've seen (somewhere) a system that lets you tatoo your body to act like spell-book pages. I don't know if this might help get around the VoP restrictions. I'll repost when/if I can find the exact splatbook.

[NeoSeraphi]

Can a weapon also function as a holy symbol? If you worship a martial diety or a nature-based one that didn't mind you venerating a chunk of wood (club, staff, javelin, etc) I think you might be able to swing it, unless it's been specifically banned somewhere.

No. And I can't believe I have to answer this exact question again, this is the same question I got the last time I posted that link in a VoP thread. *facepalm*

No, a holy symbol is a divine focus component. It has a monetary value, and it is a specific item that must be purchased from the SRD. You cannot just arbitrarily designate an item that happens to appear similar to your deity's holy symbol as a holy symbol. It's an amulet that you wear around your neck.



Also, when it comes to spells I know I've seen (somewhere) a system that lets you tatoo your body to act like spell-book pages. I don't know if this might help get around the VoP restrictions. I'll repost when/if I can find the exact splatbook.

Sounds like the blood mage, from Complete Arcane. Problem with that is its a prestige class feature, which would mean that you would only be able to use it if you were in that class. (And it has some harsh prerequisites (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html))

[Kenneth]

K i posted my advertisment for a DM Here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12579408#post12579408)


here is hoping it gets picked up.

[Deepbluediver]

No. And I can't believe I have to answer this exact question again, this is the same question I got the last time I posted that link in a VoP thread. *facepalm*

No, a holy symbol is a divine focus component. It has a monetary value, and it is a specific item that must be purchased from the SRD. You cannot just arbitrarily designate an item that happens to appear similar to your deity's holy symbol as a holy symbol. It's an amulet that you wear around your neck.


Maybe you should stop posting that link then... :smallamused:

Seriously though, the article makes a point (in the first paragraph even) that draws people's attention to a specific quirk of the VoP regarding weapons, which immediately gets them thinking about what other similar quirks you might be able to exploit. You should know that tabletop gamers are nothing if not predictable when it comes to exploits.

Thanks for the info about holy symbols; I'll keep it in mind in the future....still, I think with a sufficiently large enough holy symbol I should be able to bludgeon someone. I just need another exotic weapon feat or two....
*ducks and runs away*



Sounds like the blood mage, from Complete Arcane. Problem with that is its a prestige class feature, which would mean that you would only be able to use it if you were in that class. (And it has some harsh prerequisites (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html))

Well, it IS in Complete Arcane, but it's actually a seperate feature not related to any particular class (Alternate Spell Books, p. 186). It does cost 200gp per page though. Still, if you tattoo yourself, THEN take the VoP, you could claim it's impossible to get rid of. Of course, if your DM is feeling particularly cranky or sadistic he might insist you flay yourself....

Eww, I just squicked myself.