Critical Feats/Strategies For Kukri

[Mandos]

One of my players is a dex focused Rogue/Ranger, dual wielding Kukris. With TWF and W Finesse he hits and crits a lot, but with low base damage his crits are kind of puny. Any suggestions for a dex friendly feat or strategy that makes the most of kukri crits?

[ScrambledBrains]

It's a three feat-tax, but if ToB is on the table, he could take Martial Study for Shadow Hand, Martial Stance for Shadow Hand, and then Shadow Blade.

[Douglas]

It's a three feat-tax, but if ToB is on the table, he could take Martial Study for Shadow Hand, Martial Stance for Shadow Hand, and then Shadow Blade.
Sorry, but kukri is not on the list of weapons that benefit from that feat.

Tome of Battle does have something major to offer for this, though: the Blood in the Water stance from the Tiger Claw discipline. Every time he gets a crit, he gets a stacking +1 attack and damage for the rest of the encounter (technically it's until he goes 1 minute - 10 rounds - without getting any crits at all). Note that since this is a constant bonus, not extra dice, it would itself get multiplied for the damage of any crits he scores while he's got the bonus.

[ScrambledBrains]

Sorry, but kukri is not on the list of weapons that benefit from that feat.

Tome of Battle does have something major to offer for this, though: the Blood in the Water stance from the Tiger Claw discipline. Every time he gets a crit, he gets a stacking +1 attack and damage for the rest of the encounter (technically it's until he goes 1 minute - 10 rounds - without getting any crits at all). Note that since this is a constant bonus, not extra dice, it would itself get multiplied for the damage of any crits he scores while he's got the bonus.

You're right...how did I forget that? :smallredface:

Good advice here. :smallbiggrin:

[Elric VIII]

How do you feel about ToB?

Swordsage gives you access to Assassin's Stance (+2d6 SA) and the feat Shadow Blade which adds Dex to damage when in a Shadow Hand stance (i.e. - Assassin's Stance).

There are also great Tiger Claw maneuvers that synnergize well with TWF. Blood in the Water (another stance) gives you a stacking +1 to hit and damage every time you sucessfully crit. Dancing/Raging Mongoose give extra attacks.




Also, how is his Int? A bit of Swashbuckler with Daring outlaw could be good.

Additionally, a dip into Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian would give him pounce so he can move and full attack.

[GeekGirl]

With a rouge base, you can try Telling Blow (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/telling-blow--2895/), and deal sneak attack damage when you crit.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

I would suggest moving into rogue, and snagging Telling Blow...

bonus damage when flanking, invisible, or have initiative... bonus damage on crits.

snag Fire/Ice/Lightning/Acid Burst... +1d10 in crits.

Improved Favored Enemy (+3 damage vs. Favored Enemy) is nice for all hits, including crits.

IF you do pick up Rogue levels for sneak attack and telling blow, grab Craven feat as well... +1 SA damage/level... includes ranger levels. that bonus gets multiplied on a crit, though the actual SA dice don't.

[EvilJoe15]

Aptitude kukries plus Lightning Maces is a good combo. Basically every time you crit you get an extra attack. Very nasty if optimized properly, and can go NI under the right conditions.

[hex0]

Additionally, a dip into Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian would give him pounce so he can move and full attack.

I'd suggest dipping Psychic Rogue with Expanded Knowledge for Psionic Lion's Charge or Psychic Warrior, instead. Bonus feats or Sneak Attack would be useful to this build.

[deuxhero]

Do Aptitude weapons force you to pick one weapon to mimic, or could you pair the Lightning Mace combo with Boomerang Daze?

[Little Brother]

I would use Bounding Assault maneuver with a Lion Spirit Totem dip. Diamond Mind 4 maneuver, so you will need to take multiple levels of a Martial Adept to get it in. I suggest Swordsage for Wis SAD with the Ranger. Is this already in progress? If not, I'd just dump the build entirely.

Actually, he's a ROGUE/Ranger? ROGUE? Why the hell isn't he a Swift Hunter? I'd be nice and let him rework it somewhat, either going Scout 3 or 4/Ranger X with Swift Hunter, or going straight(Or near-straight) Martial Adept.

Regardless, for damage, you want Shadow Blade. You need a SH stance, which should be Assassin's Stance, so after level 8, take levels 9 and 10 for a 2 level dip in SS will pick it up, as you need a SH maneuver to go with it.

[Snowbluff]

How do you feel about ToB?

Swordsage gives you access to Assassin's Stance (+2d6 SA) and the feat Shadow Blade which adds Dex to damage when in a Shadow Hand stance (i.e. - Assassin's Stance).

There are also great Tiger Claw maneuvers that synnergize well with TWF. Blood in the Water (another stance) gives you a stacking +1 to hit and damage every time you sucessfully crit. Dancing/Raging Mongoose give extra attacks.




Also, how is his Int? A bit of Swashbuckler with Daring outlaw could be good.

Additionally, a dip into Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian would give him pounce so he can move and full attack.

THis. Also, Time Stands Still, and get the pouncing mave from Tiger Claw too. Also, PHB has Slashing Flurry, which is pretty sweet for stacking hits.

[EvilJoe15]

No they don't, at least not by RAW. I'm not familiar with Boomerang Daze, what book is it from?

[deuxhero]

Some Eberron book.

Oh, on the subject of lightning maces, be very careful around Psions, Death Urge is an auto crit so... (Bomerang Daze, if it works, will save you here, as you can fail willingly against daze to avoid turning yourself into vapor).

[EvilJoe15]

Case in point. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6968457#post6968457)

Please note that if you can get auto crits against an opponent they are reduced to a fine red mist instead. Unfortunately I'm not aware of any way of doing that.

[deuxhero]

Isn't CDG auto crit? Sure they have to be helpless and I'm not sure it works with LM.

[Telonius]

Supremely Confident, from DR 335 (p.88) allows you to make a Demoralize attempt on a foe you've just critted, as a free action.

Disabling Strike, from DR 339 (p.87) lets you stun a humanoid favored enemy on a successful crit (fort negates). (DC is pretty low, but it's an option).

If the character is a goodie two-shoes, Resounding Blow and Quell the Profane from BoED give you some bonuses.

[Krazzman]

if PF is good he could give his crits to team mates.

Combat Expertise and Butterfly sting. This means he threatens a crit, if he confirms hit, his strike becomes normal and the next chosen teammate attacking the enemy automatically scores a critical hit.

[JadePhoenix]

Do Aptitude weapons force you to pick one weapon to mimic, or could you pair the Lightning Mace combo with Boomerang Daze?

Aptitude weapons are an editing mistake. Exploting an editing mistake is very much cheese, IMHO.

[deuxhero]

Editing mistake?

[Fax Celestis]

Put prismatic burst (MIC) on one or both of his weapons. For 30k gp, they inflict prismatic spray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticSpray.htm) to the target on-crit.


Aptitude weapons are an editing mistake. Exploting an editing mistake is very much cheese, IMHO.

...according to...?

[Talionis]

Aptitude weapons are an editing mistake. Exploting an editing mistake is very much cheese, IMHO.

Boomerang Daze is hard to qualify for. I think you have to be a racially specific form of Halfling(?) and it may have other prerequisites. I looked into it before and I remember dropping it because of it being hard to qualify for.

It is hard to imagine Aptitude Weapons being a typo. They are in written in the book and can really only do what they do. I think the exploits people like to try with it often don't work and I think that DM's should always get a chance to say, "no, that combo is too broken and won't work in my game or wasn't RAI." That said, I think for Tier 3 and above games the Lightning Mace/Aptitude Weapon trick isn't overly broken.

[King Atticus]

Put prismatic burst (MIC) on one or both of his weapons. For 30k gp, they inflict prismatic spray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticSpray.htm) to the target on-crit.


This is my personal favorite crit toy. Pretty expensive so its only viable at higher levels (even more so when needing to do 2 weapons) but so worth it.

[killem2]

You could always try getting a permanent Enlarge Person cast on you. :D

[FMArthur]

It takes more than one factor to truly break Aptitude Weapon. If you just go Lightning Maces and doubled-threat kukris, it's powerful but not broken. It's also really cool if you ask me, so I'd be sad to see it go.

If you add Roundabout Kick (hemorrhaging feats at this point) it starts going a bit crazy. If you sub Aptitude Splitting hand crossbows in for those kukris... at that point it turns into a fractal arrow explosion and you attract heavy roleplaying sourcebooks magnetically.

[Godskook]

1.Craven - Its multiplied on crits, and he's already using SA.

2.Skirmish+Pounce - Easiest method is Scout 4/Barbarian 1, you get a bonus feat from Scout and a normal feat. Invest those in Swift Hunter(just makes it faster level-wise unless you're heavy ranger) and Improved Skirmish. For that 5 level investment, you can now deal +4d6 whenever you move 20'.

3.Wizard 1/Unseen Seer 10 - You're now a caster, and that has tons of benefits, but the most notable being that a Ranger spell is now available to you, and grants an additional d6/CL SA to your build.

4.Deadly Precision is a weapon enchantment. There's 2 forms of it, a +1 and a +2. The +1 adds 1d6 SA, while the +2 adds +2d6. Ask your DM which is available. A nice DM will say 'both', while a strict DM will pick one or the other.

[killem2]

4.Deadly Precision is a weapon enchantment. There's 2 forms of it, a +1 and a +2. The +1 adds 1d6 SA, while the +2 adds +2d6. Ask your DM which is available. A nice DM will say 'both', while a strict DM will pick one or the other.

Are you saying you can put both on a weapon or are you just saying the DM would allow one or the other to be available at some point in the story?

[Cieyrin]

It takes more than one factor to truly break Aptitude Weapon. If you just go Lightning Maces and doubled-threat kukris, it's powerful but not broken. It's also really cool if you ask me, so I'd be sad to see it go.

If you add Roundabout Kick (hemorrhaging feats at this point) it starts going a bit crazy. If you sub Aptitude Splitting hand crossbows in for those kukris... at that point it turns into a fractal arrow explosion and you attract heavy roleplaying sourcebooks magnetically.

Or you get Death Urge'd into turning yourself into chunky salsa. Poor Olo...

[JadePhoenix]

...according to...?
Common sense. They are obviously supposed to work as the Warblade class feature. Someone just forgot to copy and paste the last paragraph.

[jaybird]

This is my personal favorite crit toy. Pretty expensive so its only viable at higher levels (even more so when needing to do 2 weapons) but so worth it.

Same. So absolutely and utterly amazing for a critfisher you'd be mad to not take it.

[jaybird]

This is my personal favorite crit toy. Pretty expensive so its only viable at higher levels (even more so when needing to do 2 weapons) but so worth it.

Same. So absolutely and utterly amazing for a critfisher you'd be mad to not take it.

[Godskook]

Are you saying you can put both on a weapon or are you just saying the DM would allow one or the other to be available at some point in the story?

There's a few cases:

1.Complete Adventurer takes precedence due to primary source rules. Strictest RAW, but you get the better of the two versions this way.

2.MiC takes precedence, under the same thinking that'd allow psuedo-errata from CompPsi. Not RAW, but a not-uncommon viewpoint. Like the CompPsi stealth-nerfs, this is the worst for the player.

3.DM rules that both are technically separate enchantments and thus, they would stack like normal for any other 2 weapon enchantments. Most lax option, but doesn't stretch RAW too hard.

4.DM rules that they're the 'same' enchantment, in the same way that a +1 Cloak of Resistance is the same as a +5 Cloak of Resistance. Oddly, this allows the quest of if a +5 Deadly Precision enchantment exists.

[FMArthur]

But what's so good about an enhancement that adds +1d6 conditional extra damage per +1 enhancement anyway? Why not just stack some energy ones on it? Corrosive, Dessicating and Screaming are uncommonly resisted. Collision adds a fixed +5 damage which works with multipliers, coming out slightly ahead of +2d6 on weapons with 15-20 crit rates, and pulling way ahead if you've got other multiplication going on.

[Fax Celestis]

Common sense. They are obviously supposed to work as the Warblade class feature. Someone just forgot to copy and paste the last paragraph.

Omitting an entire paragraph seems like more than "a typo".

[Hiro Protagonest]

Common sense. They are obviously supposed to work as the Warblade class feature. Someone just forgot to copy and paste the last paragraph.

Why would a weapon enchantment copy a class feature? It sometimes copies feats, but I've never seen it copy a class feature. Name isn't enough: swashbuckler Insightful Strike/swordsage Insightful Strike/Diamond Mind Insightful Strike.

[Wyntonian]

Why would a weapon enchantment copy a class feature? It sometimes copies feats, but I've never seen it copy a class feature. Name isn't enough: swashbuckler Insightful Strike/swordsage Insightful Strike/Diamond Mind Insightful Strike.

I'd agree with this. I don't really see any grey area there. Is it relatively powerful? Kinda, yeah. Is it "Totes b0rked"? Not really.