Pathfinder Bandit + Snap Shot interaction

[Menteith]

Just a quick question about the interaction between two abilities. The Bandit is a Rogue Archetype that gives the ability Ambush. There is also a Rogue talent called Snap Shot. The relevant portions of these abilities have been posted below.

Ambush (Ex)
At 4th level, a bandit becomes fully practiced in the art of ambushing. When she acts in the surprise round, she can take a move action, standard action, and swift action during the surprise round...

Snap Shot
A rogue with this talent may treat her intitiative roll as a 20 for a surprise round, regardless of her initiative, but she may only take an attack action with a ranged weapon...

Both Snap Shot and Ambush contain specific wordings that allow me to act in specific ways during the surprise round. What am I allowed to do during the surprise round if I have these abilities?

[Coidzor]

Likely the DM would make you have to choose between which one you would like to use.

If he were nice the DM might let you act in the surprise round as if your initiative in it were 20.

[Menteith]

Likely the DM would make you have to choose between which one you would like to use.

If he were nice the DM might let you act in the surprise round as if your initiative in it were 20.

Sort of what I was afraid of. It's one of the few ways I've found that you can compete against a caster for initiative checks.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

For the most part, I prefer Surprise Attack, which allows a rogue to make sneak attacks even if his opponent has already acted. In this case however, snap Shot might be better.

Best Bandit combo I've found is: spring loaded sheath with a dagger. its concealed, and can be drawn as a swift action, still leaving you a move and standard action on a surprise round. Throw in surprise attack, and you are still getting SA even if they already acted. Throw Underhanded talent on top of that, and you are dealing max SA damage, no rolls, since the dagger was concealed. Works even better as a Knife Master/Bandit... the archetypes don't overlap, so both can be applied.

By level 8 you get Fearsome Blow. if you have picked up Finesse, Dervish Dance and a keen scimitar, you cause an enemy to flee when struck by a SA that is also a crit, CHA mod times/day, for CHA mod rounds. After they withdraw and begin fleeing (need at least 14 CHA for this trick) quick draw and throw a dart/dagger into their back for more SA damage. works even better if you are allowed access to 3.5 feat Telling Blow, since you can crit and deal SA just for critting.

[MukkTB]

Hmm. If I was DM I would let you have a full set of actions at initiative 20, but you would have to make an attack with a ranged weapon. I would frown very heavily upon you shooting the wall or some stupid thing to take a move and a swift action at 20. You would have to make a fullhearted attempt to shoot some duder if you wanted that 20 init.

Other DMs may interpret differently.

[CTrees]

You know, that's really confusing. Pathfinder has both a rogue talent named Snap Shot, AND a Feat named Snap Shot (with improved and greater versions), and they're radically different animals.

More to the point, the wording of the Snap Shot talent is, "but she may only take an attack action with a ranged weapon." There's an argument to be made that this is only a restriction on attack actions taken during the surprise round, and says nothing about other actions. If the wording had been, "but only to take an attack action with a ranged weapon," or "but she may only make a single attack with a ranged weapon," there'd be no question - it would not stack with Ambush, and you could not take the move and swift actions and still get the automatic 20 on initiative during the surprise round. However... I haven't had enough coffee yet to go full-on, discrete math style proof, but, by the magic of "unconsidered interactions," I think the lack of specification regarding any other actions may allow this.

Now, RAI? They shouldn't stack. I don't think that's in question, really. I'd allow it in game, though, given the precise wording.

[Menteith]

Alright, thanks everyone! There are way too many thing in PF that aren't clarified >.<.

[Curious]

I'm not getting the confusion here. One lets you always take a move, standard, and swift action in a surprise round, regardless of circumstances. The other lets you treat your initiative roll as 20 as long as you make only ranged attacks. Thus, you could treat your initiative as 20 and take a full rounds worth of actions, as long as you either made no attacks, or only made ranged attacks.