Incorporeal undead dealing HP damage

[Lokisan]

Had this strange situation occur in a game recently and wondered what the most sensible interpretation would be:

What is the damage type of touch attacks by incorporeal undead that deal HP damage in addition to ability drain (such as the Dread Wraith)? Negative energy?

How would those attacks affect a character under the effect of Death Ward, a corporeal undead and another incorporeal undead? Yes, all of those actually happened...

[supermonkeyjoe]

Here's an article (sort of) dealing with that: Rules of the game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040928a)

And the pertinent text:
Incorporeal Creatures Attacking

Most incorporeal creatures can deliver a physical attack by striking at other creatures. Although this attack is called an incorporeal touch attack, it more closely resembles a slam attack. It's called an incorporeal touch attack because it ignores armor, natural armor, and shield bonuses, just as a touch attack does. Unlike a touch attack, however, force effects block an incorporeal touch attack. Deflection bonuses work against incorporeal touch attacks (just as they work against true touch attacks). In most cases, you can resolve the attack using the defender's touch Armor Class -- just be sure to include any force effects the defender is using, such as a mage armor spell (or a magic item that duplicates that spell's effects, such as bracers of armor) or a shield spell. Ghost touch armor also proves effective against an incorporeal touch attack.

Since no damage type is specified the answer is bludgeoning.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Really? I think negative energy damage (like in an ILW spell) seems to make much more sense from a fluff-wise perspective.

[Lokisan]

Ah, thanks - it was the 'damage type defaults to bludgeoning' that was escaping me. Not entirely sure it makes sense fluff-wise, but it certainly makes things simpler.

[Lokisan]

Dusk Eclipse, that's what I thought, too, but it lead to a rather silly stalemate when my deathwarded, tomb-tainted soul Dread Necro and his necropolitan rogue cohort fought a couple of Dread Wraiths. With bludgeoning damage they'd have murdered us...:smalltongue:

[Tingel]

Really? I think negative energy damage (like in an ILW spell) seems to make much more sense from a fluff-wise perspective.

"Fluff-wise" bludgeoning damage is perfectly fine. Consider the classical poltergeist that is able to move/throw/damage physical objects. Apparently his immaterial "ectoplasmic body" can interact with physical matter, maybe in a manner akin to telekinesis.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I haven't seen the film (just heard about it) so it didn't cross my mind when I posted that. And while I see your point I still think it is better for it to be negative energy; but if the rules says it is bludgeoning meh it doesn't really matters.

[Psyren]

Well, consider the Psion Uncarnate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionUncarnate.htm) and Unbodied (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/unbodied.htm) - two incorporeal creatures that have nothing to do with undead or negative energy, but also have damaging touch attacks.

I therefore consider it to be a disruption of your life energy or other autonomic processes. In fact, the XPH (pg. 216) describes the Unbodied's touch attack in exactly the same way.

[supermonkeyjoe]

It doesn't exactly make sense that a being comprised entirely of fire would bludgeon you but ever if you're immune to heat, a fire elemental's slam is still going to hurt.