Tarquin & Malack [SoD and Origin Spoiler]

[Ancalagon]

What I find curious about the current comic (822) is how it changed the impression I have from the relationship between Malack and Tarquin. We knew Tarquin was a ruler with an iron fist who decides what is done where, but so far we had a lot of reason to assume his relationship with Malack is also founded in true friendship. Even if both are evil or at least "evil and very, very dark neutral".

But the comic now has Tarquin commanding (!) Malack to suck it up. No reasons, no time to explain, no speaking with each other alone, no words, just some "suck it up". To me, that turns my impression of their relationship into something else. To the point where I think there is no real friendship between Tarquin and Malack or at least some sort of "equal standing".

What I do find very interesting is that we have already seen such a turn: When the comic first showed up, Redcloak seemed to be some lackey of Xykon, but the difference did not seem that steep, Xykon seemed to have at least some sort of respect for his head cleric. And then SoD came out and we were shown how much contempt between those two exists, how strongly their relationship is "leader who orders" and "follower who sucks up everything he gets told to suck up". It showed there was no friendship or anything positive between those two who at least seemed to pull in the same direction and now it suddenly turns out all Tarquin does to silence Malack is to ruthlessly crush the wishes of his "friend" as soon as they stand in his way. And Malack simply sucks that up (at least it very much seems like that), even if it means to work with Nale, to postpone (or forget about!) his vengeance and to go against a friend (possibly to kill him). You could assume he was as spineless as Redcloak and the "correct" thing in this situation here would (might? should? could?) have been to outright kill Nale even if that might mean to get killed by Tarquin. At least that's what Tarquin would have done if their roles were switched in whose child had killed whose other children (and he would have gotten away with it because Malack would have just sucked it up).

I find that to be a rather curious detail. It's very interesting because it shows how Rich constructs these kinds of stories when it comes to friendship: Build it up to look at least somewhat positive so the change comes out as even more drastic.

I'm very interested to find out if there's a reason Malack is this intimidated and subdued by Tarquin or if he's just in general in fear of Tarquin. And I'm also interested if he is, in the very end, just as spineless as Redcloak.

As a sidenote: It's interesting how all of Durkons positive NPC-friendships seem to turn to ash. You really can feel sorry for him, in fact I think he's a truly tragic character:
Cast out by the own people to prevent a tragedy that won't be prevented, being forced to cast out the one he loved, betrayed by the one who he thought to be a true friend and an equal (Roy is a friend, but no cleric as equal), the healing-monkey of his true friends (who forget him as soon as he stops clanking), and the one who got scoffed at for being right about Miko.
If Durkon turns Darth Durkon after the latest tragedy will hit him (soon), he might have all reason to do so.

[SPoD]

I think it's a mischaracterization to say that Tarquin is commanding Malack here. More like just telling him to quit his bellyaching, which is within the boundaries of friendship between two men. Or it might represent Tarquin crossing the line, but it doesn't retroactively mean that said friendship never existed.

We already know that this is a recurring conversation between the two of them from Panel 2 of this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0764.html). Tarquin's position has been that Malack should just get on with his life, like Tarquin did when he left Elan's mom and remarried. In that context, this comic is little more than an emphasis on the pre-existing dynamic: they are friends who disagree strongly on something, but work together. When it comes to work, Tarquin's word is final. He may even think that he's helping his friend get over a painful chapter in his personal life, "tough love" style.

I would also point out that Tarquin has not said anything to imply that Malack can't kill Nale later, after the Gate is secured, and that Malack would understand that implicitly.

[hamishspence]

I'm not sure if the relationship between Malack and Durkon has progressed enough to make Malack attacking Durkon qualify as a "betrayal" - they seem to me more like acquaintances than friends- having enjoyable conversations, but not more.

[Gift Jeraff]

Look how casually Tarquin treats pun-dueling with Elan and throwing a dagger at Nale. If Malack's anything like that, fighting Durkon won't even be a betrayal (from his perspective). It'd just be a hands-on theological discussion. Also note how he alone wants to deal with Durkon; I think that suggests he wants to make sure no one kills him.

And I think Malack might just respect the fact that Tarquin was his leader (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0758.html), and possibly a very good one.

[skaddix]

I am thinking as others have suggested this is code.

Tarquin says the word business twice and emphasizes it the second time. So I am thinking he is saying lets get the job done then we kill them.

[NerfTW]

You've never had to tell a friend to get over it for their own good?

I don't see command, I see someone getting annoyed with their friend and putting the situation bluntly. He's right. Malack could have raised his children at any time. They died years ago. He currently has the chance to gain enough power to take over the world without all the subterfuge. Too much is at stake for personal squabbles, no matter how personal.

[Fish]

Tarquin knows that Elan is on a quest to save the world from being conquered, and he says he's not going to stand in the way (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0762.html). He also learned about the Gates, to some degree, and the power that represents.

He is just smart enough to realize that Elan's quest is the same as Nale's. Probably. He may know, possibly, that the "scenery-chewing villain" is NOT Nale, but that depends how much Nale told him.

In any case, Tarquin isn't going to sit idly by to see if Elan or Nale (or the "scenery-chewing villain") wins. He's going to be there to see for himself and make his choice later. By hand-picking the rest of Nale's team, he insures Nale does NOT recruit his own replacements; thus Tarquin can throw his weight easily to either side of the fight.

[Math_Mage]

Tarquin is remaining in control of this situation as much as possible. But I think he just lost some of his hold over Malack...barring a coded betrayal of Nale at some future point, which I doubt occurred here.

FWIW, Fish, I'd say Tarquin DEFINITELY knows Nale isn't the villain in question. Nale doesn't have the gumption, wit, or strength to be a Xykon, and nobody knows that better than Tarquin.

[veti]

One huge difference between the two relationships: power levels. Xykon is massively more powerful than Redcloak. But Malack and Tarquin used to be in the same adventuring party, which suggests they're probably about the same level. And since Malack is a cleric, whatever class Tarquin is, he's unlikely to have a strong type advantage.

If it came to a showdown between the two, I'm not seeing any way it could be an automatic walkover for Tarquin, as it would be for Xykon dealing with Redcloak.

So the basis for "command" between those two - simple intimidation - doesn't work between Tarquin and Malack. You'd have to posit some other hold Tarquin might have, and we haven't seen any sign of that as far as I know.

[Peelee]

What I like about this is that there's not necessarily a single answer here; it seems to be a fairly complex relationship, which makes it all the more realistic. SPoD, NerfTW, Gift Jeraff and Fish all have very, VERY excellent points, and there's nothing to say that more than one, if not several, of these interpretations can't be correct at the same time, to varying degrees. I started reading this strip after I stumbled a random early panel, and the joke was strong enough to make me want to read more, but the characterizations are what really pulled me in to be immersed in the comic's reality, and what has made it possibly my favorite webcomic now. I don't think characterization and relationships between characters have been done this well since Calvin and Hobbes. And now I'm getting off topic and going into why I love OotS....I think I'll stop now

[Spookymurloc]

I don't think it was a sign of disrespect from Tarquin. Nor do I think Tarquin treats Malack the way Xykon treats Redcloak, he seems way to smart (even genre-savvy, or just generally savvy) to mistreat his minions, especially the most important and powerful henchmen.

Xykon is very likely to suffer the consequences of mistreating his followers.
Not to mention that even if he goes through with his plan, Xykon is going to suffer, since the ritual will give control to Redcloak's god, regardless of whether or not Xykon keeps Redcloak around long enough for that.

And the god of goblins (whose name I forget) is likely to unleash some vengeance on Xykon for his treatment of the goblins of all types, especially Redcloak, his high priest.

Tarquin, on the other hand, seems too clever to fall into that trap. I think he's likely to allow Malack to kill Nale when Nale ceases to be useful, unless he harbors hopes of Nale 'growing up' as a villain.

[Fish]

FWIW, Fish, I'd say Tarquin DEFINITELY knows Nale isn't the villain in question. Nale doesn't have the gumption, wit, or strength to be a Xykon...
I think all that Tarquin can say with certainty is that Elan thinks there's a scenery-chewing villain. Did Elan tell his dad about Xykon? It seems not:

Tarquin: Elan, if a hero of your caliber is involved in a quest of such significance that you can't spare more than three days for your old man, then logic dictates that it probably involves trouncing some clichéd scenery-chewing villain bent on world conquest.

Tarquin could suspect that villain might be Nale, mightn't he?

Did Nale tell Tarquin about Xykon? It seems not — the exchange seems to have gone like this:

Nale: There's a ritual! A special ritual needed to control the Snarl!
Tarquin: And you know this ritual?
Nale: No. But I know who does. I've worked with them before. You won't get it from them without my help.

Vague. How much Tarquin knows or guesses ... impossible to say. He could possibly guess that Nale's former employer and Elan's scenery-chewing villain are the same person. Could he guess an epic lich sorcerer, a god's hand-picked goblin high priest, and an undead army too?

[Joerg]

Vague. How much Tarquin knows or guesses ... impossible to say. He could possibly guess that Nale's former employer and Elan's scenery-chewing villain are the same person. Could he guess an epic lich sorcerer, a god's hand-picked goblin high priest, and an undead army too?

It's a good question: how much does Tarquin know about Xykon? Azure City has been under Cloister for some time. But Hinjo has travelled all around the ocean looking for allies, and some nations have accepted Gobbotopia.

Tarquin seems the type of politician who has many spies and many other sources of information, and I think he would keep an eye on such large changes on the other continent. In my opinion, he knows that Azure City has been captured by a hobgoblin army lead by an epic lich.

So even if Nale didn't mention Azure City, there's a chance that Tarquin suspects. If Nale told him about the locations of the other Gates, I'm pretty sure Tarquin will come to the right conclusions.

Anyway, I would be surprised if Tarquin wouldn't want to know more about these 'people' who have the ritual. That he doesn't question Nale immediately about them is also an indication that he might have a pretty good idea already. I just wonder what he plans ...

[Peelee]

It's a good question: how much does Tarquin know about Xykon? Azure City has been under Cloister for some time. But Hinjo has travelled all around the ocean looking for allies, and some nations have accepted Gobbotopia.

Tarquin seems the type of politician who has many spies and many other sources of information, and I think he would keep an eye on such large changes on the other continent. In my opinion, he knows that Azure City has been captured by a hobgoblin army lead by an epic lich.

So even if Nale didn't mention Azure City, there's a chance that Tarquin suspects. If Nale told him about the locations of the other Gates, I'm pretty sure Tarquin will come to the right conclusions.

Anyway, I would be surprised if Tarquin wouldn't want to know more about these 'people' who have the ritual. That he doesn't question Nale immediately about them is also an indication that he might have a pretty good idea already. I just wonder what he plans ...

It seems that the Western Continent, which has constantly changing countries on a yearly basis, would be welcoming themselves of a new country's ratification. I suspect that the EoB is one of the nations that recognizes Gobbotopia, though I'm not sure what use that could be at the moment.

[Spookymurloc]

It seems that the Western Continent, which has constantly changing countries on a yearly basis, would be welcoming themselves of a new country's ratification. I suspect that the EoB is one of the nations that recognizes Gobbotopia, though I'm not sure what use that could be at the moment.

I don't think Gobbotopia was looking for support from the Western Continent, since the WC seems largely removed and irrelevant to the northern and southern continents.
Then again they won the support of Cliffport because the elves openly oppose them, so I could be wrong.

I also didn't get the impression that Tarquin really keeps track of what's going on on the other continents. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the western continent is so unstable he has to focus on it all the time. Keeping track of the other continents would be irrelevant and a waste of resources.

That's just my 2 cents though :smalltongue:

Either way I don't think Tarquin knows about Xykon and Team Evil yet, but he probably will very soon.

[Fish]

Especially if Xykon stops off at a handy city to replenish his supply of undead using Tarquin's citizens.

[Math_Mage]

I think all that Tarquin can say with certainty is that Elan thinks there's a scenery-chewing villain. Did Elan tell his dad about Xykon? It seems not:

Tarquin: Elan, if a hero of your caliber is involved in a quest of such significance that you can't spare more than three days for your old man, then logic dictates that it probably involves trouncing some clichéd scenery-chewing villain bent on world conquest.

Tarquin could suspect that villain might be Nale, mightn't he?

Did Nale tell Tarquin about Xykon? It seems not — the exchange seems to have gone like this:

Nale: There's a ritual! A special ritual needed to control the Snarl!
Tarquin: And you know this ritual?
Nale: No. But I know who does. I've worked with them before. You won't get it from them without my help.

Vague. How much Tarquin knows or guesses ... impossible to say. He could possibly guess that Nale's former employer and Elan's scenery-chewing villain are the same person. Could he guess an epic lich sorcerer, a god's hand-picked goblin high priest, and an undead army too?

I'll be honest, I simply can't think of any scenario where Tarquin would consider his son to have world-eating villain potential, based on everything we've seen in the comic and everything Tarquin knows about Nale by virtue of being his father. He might not know exactly how strong the villain is, and almost certainly doesn't expect someone of Xykon's caliber--but Nale would be absolutely out of the question from his perspective. Not only is Nale significantly weaker than Tarquin, but he's been beaten at least once already by the Order. In terms of narrative structure, Tarquin already has Nale's relationship to Elan filed under 'perennially annoying evil opposite'.