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The-Mage-King
2011-12-21, 01:37 AM
Master of Gradation Air

*Epic pic goes here*

"Steel is my body, and fire my blood..."

-Unknown Master of Gradation Air

A warrior who focuses on a strange form of the call weaponry power that is more of a creation of weaponry, the Master of Gradation Air is never unarmed, and has found ways to increase the capacity of that power and improve his skills in combat with it. Truly, these are the worst opponents that warriors who specialize in disarming their foes can fight- after all, why would you bother retrieving a lost blade if you can just make a new one?


Adaptation: Some Masters of Gradation Air might be more focused on defensive techniques- for these characters, changing the focus of the class from weapons to armor would be in order.


Prerequisites:Skills: Craft (Weaponsmithing) 8 ranks, Appraise 4 ranks, Knowledge (Arcana) 4 ranks
Maneuvers: Three maneuvers, including at least one Iron Heart or Solar Wind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193295) maneuver of second level or higher.
Powers: Must be able to manifest call weaponry.
Special: Psionic subtype, proficiency with all martial melee weapons


Hit Die: d8
Skills
The Master of Gradation Air's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana) (Psionics) (Int), Martial Lore (Int), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points: 4+Int


LevelBABFort SaveRef Save Will SaveSpecialManifestingManeuvers KnownManeuvers ReadiedStances Known
1+0+0+2+2Detect Psionics, Form Tool-100
2+1+0+3+3Form Weapon+1 level of existing class010
3+2+1+3+3Instant Eyeover, Librarian of Blades, Weapon Group Affinity+1 level of existing class000
4+3+1+4+4Form Legendary Weapon, Form Material+1 level of existing class100
5+3+1+4+4Swift Creation, Lasting Blades-001
6+4+2+5+5Reinforcement+1 level of existing class010
7+5+2+5+5Improved Eyeover+1 level of existing class100
8+6+2+6+6Improved Swift Creation+1 level of existing class000
9+6+3+6+6+1 level of existing class000
10+7+3+7+7Perfect Replication-111


Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A Master of Gradation Air gains no weapon or armor proficiencies.

Manifesting: At every level except for 1st, 5th, and 10th, a Master of Gradation Air gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if he had also gained a level in whatever manifesting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained.

Maneuvers: At first level and every three levels afterwards, a Master of Gradation Air learns a new maneuver from the Iron Heart or Solar Wind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193295) discipline. He must meet the prerequisites for these maneuvers as normal. He gains an additional maneuver readied at second level and every four levels thereafter.

Stances: A Master of Gradation Air learns an additional stance from the Iron Heart or Solar Wind discipline at 5th and 10th level.

Detect Psionics (Psi): A Master of Gradation Air is sensitive to magical and psionic auras. He may use Detect Psionics as a Psi-Like Ability at will.

Form Tool (Su): A Master of Gradation Air is able to create normal tools. This ability has no cost, but the DM should decide what is a reasonable limit for its use. The Master of Gradation Air may, as a full round action, create any basic tool, such as a shovel, crowbar, ect. This weapon is of the minimum quality needed to function, and is unfit for use as a weapon. Food CANNOT be created with this ability.

Form Weapon (Su): At 2nd level, a Master of Gradation Air is able to recreate any weapon he has seen and has had a chance to examine in detail, at least in part. By spending 1 power point, he may create any normal weapon as a standard action. This weapon is treated as masterwork, and lasts for a number of minutes equal to his class level. Due to it being a mere shadow of a normal weapon, any weapon created by this ability has its hit points and hardness halved. If ammunition is created with this, it is created in batches of 25.


Instant Eyeover (Ex): The key skill of the Master of Gradation Air is his ability to analyze and replicate weaponry. At 3rd level, a Master of Gradation Air may make appraise checks for weapons as a move action with no penalty, as well as determine the basic magical properties (enhancement bonus and enhancements, but not special properties, such as the ability of a Sun Blade to be treated as a shortsword by its wieldier) of items they are appraising as part of the same check, should they be using their Detect Psionics PLA. Otherwise, this functions as the Appraise Magic Value feat (PHB 2), except that it does not consume any materials, and it is included in the standard action of the Appraise check.

Librarian of Blades (Ex): At 3rd level, in addition to perfecting his ability to analyze weapons quickly, a Master of Gradation Air has researched sufficient magical weapons to become a walking library of weapons. He gains a bonus equal to his class level on Knowledge checks related to weapons of any type. Furthermore, he may make a special Knowledge (Arcana) check to research a specific weapon, treating it as though it were analyzed for the purposes of his class abilities. This check has a DC of 15+ twice the Caster level of the weapon being researched.

Weapon Group Affinity (Su): As he practices, a Master of Gradation Air develops an affinity towards a certain group of weapons. At third level, he chooses a Weapon Group (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/weaponGroupFeats.htm). He gains a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls with weapons in that group, and when he uses Form Weapon or any of its advanced abilities, he pays 1 less pp to create a weapon of that group.

Form Legendary Weapon (Su): At 4th level, a Master of Gradation Air has finally figured out how to recreate a weapon's magical properties. When using the Form Weapon ability, he may spend additional power points to create a magical weapon. This costs an extra 2 power points for each point of effective enhancement bonus, and he may only create magical weapons that he has seen and analyzed using the Appraise skill. If the weapon would be a fairly generic (one property of +2 or less, any amount of enhancement bonus up to the maximum available or +5, whichever is lower), he does not need to have used the Appraise skill to analyze the specific weapon, but must have seen an example of the property at work. Use of this ability does not recreate weapon abilities of which the price is stated in gold pieces and not effective enhancement bonus. Any weapon with a limited number of uses is treated as though it were the same weapon each time it is created. All weapons are treated as though they were made at minimum required caster or manifester level for the abilities.

Form Material (Su): At 4th level, a Master of Gradation Air has calculated the proper psionic formulae for recreation of special materials. Whenever he uses Form Weapon, he may pay additional pp to change the material the weapon is made from, as seen on the below table.

{table=head]Material|PP cost
Alchemical Silver|3
Adamantine|5
Cold Iron|7[/table]

Swift Creation (Su): At 5th level, a Master of Gradation Air has managed to reduce the time it takes to create his weapons. He may use Form Weapon as a Move Action.

Lasting Blades (Ex): When a Master of Gradation has the time and skill, he can create weapons that are works of art in their own right. At 5th level, he gains the Craft Psionic Arms and Armor feat as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites, and may treat his Initiator Level as his Manifester Level for the purposes of crafting Psionic weapons. He must meet all other requirements to craft a given weapon, such as other feats or the ability to manifest certain powers.

Reinforcement (Su): By expending some of his energy, a Master of Gradation Air can increase the durability of objects, and even himself. At 6th level, as a standard action, he may spend 5 PP to increase the hardness of an object by 2 points for a number of rounds equal to his class level. Alternatively, he may give himself DR 2/- for the same number of rounds. For every additional 4 PP he spends, the hardness or DR increases by 1.

Improved Eyeover (Ex): At 7th level, a Master of Gradation has perfected his ability to analyze magical weapons. When he uses Instant Eyeover, he also can learn the special properties, hardness, and current hit points of the weapon he is studying.

Improved Swift Creation (Su): At 8th level, a Master of Gradation Air has nearly reached the pinnacle of his art, and is able to create weapons with a though. By spending an additional 5 PP and expending his Psionic Focus, he may use Form Weapon as a swift action. Furthermore, he may use Form Weapon to create a number of weapons equal to his charisma modifier, paying the normal costs for each one.

Perfect Replication (Su): At 10th level, a Master of Gradation Air is second only to the greatest of artificers in terms of quality, and beats them by a fair margin in speed. As a Standard Action, he may recreate any magical or psionic weapon he has analyzed or researched by paying a number of PP based on its price in gold pieces (less special materials, masterwork components, and the base cost of the weapon), as well as an amount of exp, also based on the weapon's price. Weapons created with this ability last for a number of rounds equal to the Master of Gradation Air's class level.

After creating a weapon in this way, a Master of Gradation Air may resummon that weapon as a swift action, paying only the pp cost of calling it, due to the weapon returning to a partially formed state upon dismissal. A Master of Gradation Air is limited to a number of weapons equal to his Charisma modifier partially formed in this manner. If he attempts to create any more weapons than that, those weapons do not gain the benefits of this ability. When he refreshes his power points each day, all weapons partially formed in this manner are dismissed, allowing different weapons to gain these benefits.

For simplification, objects are classified by their price range, with all items in that range having the same cost. For the purposes of Weapon Affinity, this ability is an advanced version of Form Weapon. Any weapon with an ability that has a limited number of uses is treated as though it were the same object each time it is created.

Price rangePP CostXP cost
2000 gp-7999gp3 pp40 XP
8000 gp- 17999 gp5 pp90 XP
18000 gp-31999 gp7 pp160 XP
32000 gp-49999 gp9 pp250 XP
50000 gp-71999 gp11 pp360 XP
72000 gp-97999 gp13 pp490 XP
98000 gp-127999 gp15 pp640 XP
128000 gp-161999 gp17 pp810 XP
162000 gp-200000 gp19 pp1000 XP

_______________________________


So. Got bored, thought "Hey, a guy who makes weapons in combat sounds COOL! I should make a Prestige Class!", then realized exactly what it was going to wind up looking like.

If you get the joke with the thread title/class name, good. If not... Eh. Ask, and I'll explain.

Anyway, comment, criticize, and shower me with praise!

Amechra
2011-12-21, 02:40 AM
So... which one were you referencing? Shirou's or Archer's?

I personally prefer Shirou's incantation, but that's just me.

The-Mage-King
2011-12-21, 02:57 AM
So... which one were you referencing? Shirou's or Archer's?

I personally prefer Shirou's incantation, but that's just me.

The answer? Yes.

:smalltongue:

But seriously, which one it is... Doesn't matter. Personally, I prefer the chant of a fanfic version of Shirou to either of 'em.

"I am the Dream of an Age..."




Comments on the mechanics, though?

The Winter King
2011-12-21, 06:42 AM
adaption for quincy?

The-Mage-King
2011-12-21, 08:55 PM
adaption for quincy?

Nope. Not any form of Quincy.

I do, in fact, homebrew stuff not for Bleach D20.


Like this. :smalltongue:




So, seriously, folks, any comments on the mechanics of this?

Zaydos
2011-12-21, 09:14 PM
Haven't read over the discipline used so take things with a grain of salt.

Until 8th level they'll mostly be a warblade with a better weapon and worse maneuvers.

At level 8 they can finally make weapons in combat without wasting their attack(s), although as Sublime characters they run the risk of being pressed for swift actions.

I find it sad that their final ability cannot make +10 equivalent weapons. Although it can make a luckblade which grants you 3 wishes for 810 XP at level 15.

Also how would making say an adamantine weapon work? The Lv 2 ability says a normal weapon that is treated as Masterwork; Form Legendary Weapon says nothing about materials.

What about special qualities without an enhancement equivalent, does he have to wait till 10th level to make them even if he's analyzed them? That's what the current write-up seems to imply as the only other reading has all those special qualities be free.

Also does Solar Wind allow sword beam spamming? If it doesn't this class needs it.

Amechra
2011-12-21, 09:17 PM
It does what it does well, and it doesn't seem to have any real probl-

That capstone is... interesting. Uncapped?

Because that capstone can get him a Wish for 11 pp and 360 points of XP. Or 3 for 17 pp and 810 XP.

Sure,t hat requires that he has seen and analyzed a Luckblade with at least one Wish on it (and he could buy one; they are only around 63000 GP for one with a single Wish.)

I would suggest having it so that if he creates a weapon with a limited number of uses of X ability, any time he creates that weapon it counts as the same weapon for the purpose of abilities used.

After all, practically free Wishes at 15th level is a tad overpowered.

The-Mage-King
2011-12-21, 10:20 PM
Haven't read over the discipline used so take things with a grain of salt.

Until 8th level they'll mostly be a warblade with a better weapon and worse maneuvers.
At level 8 they can finally make weapons in combat without wasting their attack(s), although as Sublime characters they run the risk of being pressed for swift actions.



Hm... Point. Swift Creation moved to 5th, and makes all use of the Form Weapon ability a Move action instead of Standard. Imp. Swift Creation is the same as it was.


I find it sad that their final ability cannot make +10 equivalent weapons. Although it can make a luckblade which grants you 3 wishes for 810 XP at level 15.

Fixed, LIKE A KING.




Also how would making say an adamantine weapon work? The Lv 2 ability says a normal weapon that is treated as Masterwork; Form Legendary Weapon says nothing about materials.


Added as an additional ability. Cold Iron is more because... Well, it's kinda unfair to be able to make enhanced Cold Iron weapons for, effectively, free.


What about special qualities without an enhancement equivalent, does he have to wait till 10th level to make them even if he's analyzed them? That's what the current write-up seems to imply as the only other reading has all those special qualities be free.

Adjusted for clarity.


Also does Solar Wind allow sword beam spamming? If it doesn't this class needs it.

Sadly, the closest to that is the 8th level maneuver Solar Wind Tsunami. Which is more of throwing one and creating a cone of fakes.

I can homebrew a bow for that, though... :smalltongue:


It does what it does well, and it doesn't seem to have any real probl-

That capstone is... interesting. Uncapped?
*Snip*

As mentioned, fixed.

The-Mage-King
2011-12-23, 01:30 AM
Any further balance issues or suggestions?

Wyntonian
2011-12-23, 01:36 AM
Yeah, I have one. I'd recommend switching out the Psionic Subtype requirement for having a pool of Power Points. That way you can have humans take this class and not just dromites and elans and whatevers.

Zaydos
2011-12-23, 01:45 AM
Yeah, I have one. I'd recommend switching out the Psionic Subtype requirement for having a pool of Power Points. That way you can have humans take this class and not just dromites and elans and whatevers.

Any creature with 1 or more power points gains the psionic subtype. As written this allows any character with Wild Talent, any psionic class, or phrenic creatures to take this class.


The Psionic Subtype

Any creature with psionic powers has the psionic subtype. A psionic creature can be born with the subtype or can gain the subtype during its life.

A creature meeting any one of the following criteria has the psionic subtype:
•Creatures with a power point reserve, including characters who have levels in a character class that grants them a power point reserve or creatures who have the Wild Talent feat.
•Creatures with psi-like abilities, including characters who have racial psi-like abilities.
•Creatures that have spell-like abilities described as “psionics.”

The-Mage-King
2011-12-23, 01:55 AM
Yeah, I have one. I'd recommend switching out the Psionic Subtype requirement for having a pool of Power Points. That way you can have humans take this class and not just dromites and elans and whatevers.


Any creature with 1 or more power points gains the psionic subtype. As written this allows any character with Wild Talent, any psionic class, or phrenic creatures to take this class.

Indeed. The intended entry is [LA+0 Race] Warblade or Crusader 5, with Wild Talent, but any other way of having the Psionic subtype (such as, say, Psion 1) would count too.

Wyntonian
2011-12-23, 11:38 AM
Any creature with 1 or more power points gains the psionic subtype. As written this allows any character with Wild Talent, any psionic class, or phrenic creatures to take this class.

Oh. Carry on then. Ignore the silly comment above. Aside from that, I can't really see anything that needs tweaking.

Cieyrin
2011-12-24, 12:23 AM
It seems kinda clunky to make the class require psionics but then not really do much of anything with it other than power in class abilities. The points could be uses per day or just a point pool and nothing would really change. The cleanest solution to me would be to remove the Psionic subtype, as this is very niche in what it does, since it's controlled by what the DM grants the characters ("I'm sorry, you want a what-blade?" :smallannoyed:) to then be able to make. It's versatile, sure, but that doesn't necessarily translate into power. Outside of Luckblade spam, the capstone seems rather inefficient and again locked by what you can get access to.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the send up, it's...I don't know, it models the abilities but it doesn't wow me for the possibilities. If it was more Soulknife-esque in giving a pool of abilities to custom make stuff and let you make and match, I'd find this more appealing, but the current feels rather stiff in execution. Also seems like you'd get all spreadsheet as you leveled as you keep track of weapons you've analyzed, a large majority of which probably going obsolete with leveling.

Just my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

eftexar
2011-12-24, 12:42 AM
Well, adding +1 to manifester class about two times would fix part of that problem.
And all considered I don't think it would make the class too overtly powerful.

The Troubadour
2011-12-25, 05:39 PM
No Unlimited Blade Works? :-)

NineThePuma
2011-12-25, 08:00 PM
Could use a "Manifester Level" boost.

Not "additional level of manifesting class" but "Increase your manifester level"

Salbazier
2011-12-27, 06:09 AM
But seriously, which one it is... Doesn't matter. Personally, I prefer the chant of a fanfic version of Shirou to either of 'em.
"I am the Dream of an Age..."


What fanfic is that?

The-Mage-King
2011-12-27, 02:17 PM
It seems kinda clunky to make the class require psionics but then not really do much of anything with it other than power in class abilities. The points could be uses per day or just a point pool and nothing would really change. The cleanest solution to me would be to remove the Psionic subtype, as this is very niche in what it does, since it's controlled by what the DM grants the characters ("I'm sorry, you want a what-blade?" :smallannoyed:) to then be able to make. It's versatile, sure, but that doesn't necessarily translate into power. Outside of Luckblade spam, the capstone seems rather inefficient and again locked by what you can get access to.

Point taken. I was going for a quick and dirty solution when I made this, so... Power Points leapt to my mind. Yeah, the capstone is ineffcient, but, again, quick and dirty.

EDIT: Wait, isn't there a knowledge skill to know about magical items?


Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the send up, it's...I don't know, it models the abilities but it doesn't wow me for the possibilities. If it was more Soulknife-esque in giving a pool of abilities to custom make stuff and let you make and match, I'd find this more appealing, but the current feels rather stiff in execution. Also seems like you'd get all spreadsheet as you leveled as you keep track of weapons you've analyzed, a large majority of which probably going obsolete with leveling.

Just my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

Hm... Might work on something like that as a second version.


Well, adding +1 to manifester class about two times would fix part of that problem.
And all considered I don't think it would make the class too overtly powerful.


Could use a "Manifester Level" boost.

Not "additional level of manifesting class" but "Increase your manifester level"

So... Beyond it being equal to their Initiator level?



No Unlimited Blade Works? :-)

Nope. No UBW. Maybe as a part of the Epic Progression I'm considering...


What fanfic is that?

<_<

>_>

"I Put on My Wizard Robe and Hat", by Ol'Velsper (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FanFic/IPutOnMyRobeAndWizardHat)

eftexar
2011-12-27, 04:19 PM
I hadn't actually noticed that clause. Still its seems sort of clunky to make the manifester level equal to your initiator level.
This would probably penalize your manifester level if you didn't straight class through initiator classes. It seems rather restricting.
I would add a boost to manifester level and/or would add in the clause "if higher than your manifester level would normally be."

The-Mage-King
2011-12-27, 04:22 PM
Hm... Point. And, thinking about it, Warblade (one of the two intended entries) doesn't have full martial weapon prof. Needs to be changed too.

Cieyrin
2011-12-29, 03:05 PM
Point taken. I was going for a quick and dirty solution when I made this, so... Power Points leapt to my mind. Yeah, the capstone is ineffcient, but, again, quick and dirty.

EDIT: Wait, isn't there a knowledge skill to know about magical items?

Hm... Might work on something like that as a second version.

Magic Items would fall under Knowledge(Arcana) for the most part but your wording is "has seen and thoroughly examined," which I don't think knowing about such a weapon would fulfill. I mean, having design plans for a weapon might fulfill that condition but that again falls under DM fiat of what you can get access to. It's the difference between studying theory and actually manufacturing weaponry.

Speaking of, I don't think it would be to out of the power league to borrow Secrets of the Forge from Battlesmith/Ironsoul Forgemaster so that, when these guys actually have the time to make something, they can make it, rather than whine at their spellcaster companions to make stuff for them. Shirou was rather crafty in his spare time, he just didn't have time to really work on the finetuning part of things. Plus, I don't think it would fit the source material to have a crafting montage in the middle of the War. :smallwink:

The-Mage-King
2011-12-29, 03:35 PM
Magic Items would fall under Knowledge(Arcana) for the most part but your wording is "has seen and thoroughly examined," which I don't think knowing about such a weapon would fulfill. I mean, having design plans for a weapon might fulfill that condition but that again falls under DM fiat of what you can get access to. It's the difference between studying theory and actually manufacturing weaponry.

Yeah, but I was considering adding an option to learn from knowledge of weapons, with a DC set a bit higher than it is for seeing it/analyzing it in person. That should remove some of the DM fiat from this, and has a fair amount of justification, in one word: Zelretch. :smalltongue:


Speaking of, I don't think it would be to out of the power league to borrow Secrets of the Forge from Battlesmith/Ironsoul Forgemaster so that, when these guys actually have the time to make something, they can make it, rather than whine at their spellcaster companions to make stuff for them. Shirou was rather crafty in his spare time, he just didn't have time to really work on the finetuning part of things. Plus, I don't think it would fit the source material to have a crafting montage in the middle of the War. :smallwink:

Oooh! I think I'll do that! Set ML for that as equal to IL for those purposes, and give Craft Psionic Arms and Armor as a bonus feat at the same level...

The-Mage-King
2012-01-23, 02:17 AM
Added Librarian of Blades and Lasting Blades, tweaked entry requirements, added the restriction from Prefect Replication to Form Legendary Weapon, tweaked ML wording.


Comments on changes?

Zaydos
2012-01-23, 01:14 PM
Nice touch, but is Librarian of Blades gained at 2nd or 3rd level text says 2nd, table says 3rd.

Edit: Same with Instant Eyeover.

The-Mage-King
2012-01-23, 01:49 PM
Fixed. Thanks for pointing that out.

Cieyrin
2012-01-23, 08:52 PM
I'm still not sure whether the intent is to analyze weapons and then create them or analyze their abilities and make our own, a.k.a. A Master analyzes a +1 shadowstriking heavy flail and a +2 frost longsword, does he then only able to make a +1 shadowstriking heavy flail and +2 frost longsword or could he make a +1 shadowstriking spiked chain or a +1 shadowstriking frost greataxe, etc?

The-Mage-King
2012-01-23, 09:12 PM
I'm still not sure whether the intent is to analyze weapons and then create them or analyze their abilities and make our own, a.k.a. A Master analyzes a +1 shadowstriking heavy flail and a +2 frost longsword, does he then only able to make a +1 shadowstriking heavy flail and +2 frost longsword or could he make a +1 shadowstriking spiked chain or a +1 shadowstriking frost greataxe, etc?

Honestly? Little of column A, little of column B. For fairly generic weapons (like those you mentioned), they can mix and match the basic abilities to create the right tool for the job.


However, for bigger fish (read: Sunsword, Frost Brand, Holy Avenger, any other weapon with a unique ability), they have to recreate it entirely, due to how the inherent (magibabble) is bound to the already established formula of enhancements.

Dragon Star
2012-01-24, 11:29 PM
Why the XP cost for perfect replication? If it lasted until you made a new one, or you paid the XP and then it only cost power points to summon I could understand, but giving up something permrnently for ten rounds of a weapon seems like a rip off.

The-Mage-King
2012-01-31, 02:18 AM
Why the XP cost for perfect replication? If it lasted until you made a new one, or you paid the XP and then it only cost power points to summon I could understand, but giving up something permrnently for ten rounds of a weapon seems like a rip off.

XP is a river, not a bucket. You'll likely gain as much of it in the combat as you spent for a sword, if not more. Then you need to figure in the fact that you can have any magic sword in your arsenal in hand, as a Standard action.

So if you were going up against a, say, horde of undead, you could burn the XP, grab a sunsword, and start whaling on 'em. But if you found yourself fighting a golem, you could have your adamantine golembane greatsword in hand, cutting through it starting the second turn of combat.


Though I see the point you make... Maybe make it resummonable as a swift with just the pp until the end of the day, or you change it out?



Also, because I am a terrible person, I am thinking of making an Epic progression for this PrC. Think I should, or not?

Cieyrin
2012-01-31, 09:56 AM
Though I see the point you make... Maybe make it resummonable as a swift with just the pp until the end of the day, or you change it out?

That'd be a nice perk. If having a special weapon on hand all day is a problem, I'd limit it to having Charisma bonus weapons at a time that resets at the beginning of the day.


Also, because I am a terrible person, I am thinking of making an Epic progression for this PrC. Think I should, or not?

Epic progressions aren't that exciting, honestly. It's generally just picking out which abilities keep going, slap a bonus feat list and bonus feats and you're done. Not that exciting.

The-Mage-King
2012-01-31, 01:16 PM
That'd be a nice perk. If having a special weapon on hand all day is a problem, I'd limit it to having Charisma bonus weapons at a time that resets at the beginning of the day.

Hm... I'll write up the new version of the ability, then


Epic progressions aren't that exciting, honestly. It's generally just picking out which abilities keep going, slap a bonus feat list and bonus feats and you're done. Not that exciting.

Ah, but this is a PrC, and I never do stuff half (donkey)ed. Expect it to... shift a bit in focus, after epic levels.
"I do not create swords. I create a world, housed with unlimited swords!"
Also, Breaking stuff, and prehaps a favored blade feature, making the cost and time of summoning some weapons reduced greatly...


EDIT: How does this sound for phrasing?


After creating a weapon in this way, a Master of Gradation Air may resummon that weapon as a swift action, paying only the pp cost of calling it, due to the weapon returning to a partially formed state upon dismissal. A Master of Gradation Air is limited to a number of weapons equal to his Charisma modifier partially formed in this manner. If he attempts to create any more weapons than that, those weapons do not gain the benefits of this ability.

Pretty sure it gets the point accross, but...

Cieyrin
2012-01-31, 09:12 PM
Hm... I'll write up the new version of the ability, then
EDIT: How does this sound for phrasing?

Pretty sure it gets the point accross, but...

Looks good to me.

The-Mage-King
2012-03-25, 02:13 PM
Given some thought to this.

How do you think allowing this class to progress Psychic Warrior powers at a 7/10 ratio instead of the PP progression would be? Reasonable? Or would 6/10 be better balanced?

The-Mage-King
2012-03-29, 10:56 AM
Added two adaptation blurbs to the class, which I had been thinking about for a while.

Cieyrin
2012-03-29, 02:06 PM
Added two adaptation blurbs to the class, which I had been thinking about for a while.

Looks good to me.

Nice Berserker Avvie, too, by the way. :smallsmile:

The-Mage-King
2012-03-29, 02:11 PM
Good to know.


And yeah, Cieka is good at avvy making.

Golden Ladybug
2012-03-30, 05:34 AM
This is one of the best classes of all :smallbiggrin:

Still, I think the Bonus PP pool is just clunky in general; you said that is was quick and dirty, but maybe too much so. I'd prefer just to see it advance manifesting, probably 7/10 like you said, and maybe swing the prerequisites to something more along the lines of "Manifester Level 5, X Y level Maneuvers of the Iron Heart or Solar Wind School, Craft (Weaponsmithing) 8" and have it as more of a Martial Adept/Manifester Theurge.

If I understand correctly, Perfect Replication allows you to re-summon a weapon after creating it past the 10 round duration it exists for? So, to use your example, you summon an Adamantine Golemsbane Greatsword, pay PP and XP, hewn through some Golems for 10 rounds, and let it fade from existence. Then, when you need that Adamantine Golemsbane Greatsword again, say, four days later, you simply pay the PP cost? If so, I'd add a "any expended, non-renewable, properties of the weapon summoned with this effect remain expended when it is summoned again" so that you can't chain Luckblades out of combat for fun and profit, or more tamely, reusing a Blurstrike or Greater Dispelling Weapon far more often than you'd normally be able to.

Otherwise, I really like this PrC (especially since I've been on a Fate/[series] binge over the last month or so).

horngeek
2012-03-30, 05:49 AM
The Epic Progression of this class must include UBW. :smalltongue:

Cieyrin
2012-03-30, 11:45 AM
The Epic Progression of this class must include UBW. :smalltongue:

I wouldn't say UBW need be Epic, as Shirou certainly wasn't when he used it. High level feat seems more in line to me, putting its prereqs firmly at the 15th to 18th level mark should be adequate. Given the amount of power required to pull off would suggest to me the need to make the required ML high to put that many PP into generating the Reality Marble. Practiced Manifester, perhaps, or using those Kalashtar/Quori embeded dragonshards to emulate embeding magic circuits.

The-Mage-King
2012-03-30, 12:05 PM
This is one of the best classes of all :smallbiggrin:

Still, I think the Bonus PP pool is just clunky in general; you said that is was quick and dirty, but maybe too much so. I'd prefer just to see it advance manifesting, probably 7/10 like you said, and maybe swing the prerequisites to something more along the lines of "Manifester Level 5, X Y level Maneuvers of the Iron Heart or Solar Wind School, Craft (Weaponsmithing) 8" and have it as more of a Martial Adept/Manifester Theurge.

Yeah, that makes sense. Might just have to do that, adding "Special: Must know Call Weaponry power".


If I understand correctly, Perfect Replication allows you to re-summon a weapon after creating it past the 10 round duration it exists for? So, to use your example, you summon an Adamantine Golemsbane Greatsword, pay PP and XP, hewn through some Golems for 10 rounds, and let it fade from existence. Then, when you need that Adamantine Golemsbane Greatsword again, say, four days later, you simply pay the PP cost? If so, I'd add a "any expended, non-renewable, properties of the weapon summoned with this effect remain expended when it is summoned again" so that you can't chain Luckblades out of combat for fun and profit, or more tamely, reusing a Blurstrike or Greater Dispelling Weapon far more often than you'd normally be able to.



Right.

For the first part, read the following.


When he refreshes his power points each day, all weapons partially formed in this manner are dismissed, allowing different weapons to gain these benefits.

For the second, read this part.


Any weapon with an ability that has a limited number of uses is treated as though it were the same object each time it is created.

At any rate, that ability is designed to allow a character access to, say, a Sunblade if he needs it. A +1 Golembane Adamantine Greatsword would be more from the Form Legendary Weapon ability, as well as Form Material to get Adamantine.


Otherwise, I really like this PrC (especially since I've been on a Fate/[series] binge over the last month or so).

Heh. When I first made this, I had JUST read Hill of Swords.

Just reread it yesterday. :smalltongue:




The Epic Progression of this class must include UBW. :smalltongue:


I wouldn't say UBW need be Epic, as Shirou certainly wasn't when he used it. High level feat seems more in line to me, putting its prereqs firmly at the 15th to 18th level mark should be adequate. Given the amount of power required to pull off would suggest to me the need to make the required ML high to put that many PP into generating the Reality Marble. Practiced Manifester, perhaps, or using those Kalashtar/Quori embeded dragonshards to emulate embeding magic circuits.

If I do go with the advancing ML thing, I'll just mention that Dueling Ground (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/dueling-ground) is a good power to take. :smalltongue:


But yeah. Epic progression has "Form Demiplane" penciled in for at level 15. :smalltongue:


Ooorrr.... I COULD PrC it...

Hm... Requires level 15, minimum, gets ability to make own demiplane, reduced cost of abilities...

Tavar
2012-04-01, 12:47 PM
Quick question: have you looked at the Call Weaponry abilitiy of the Psychic Warrior? Most especially, including the options offered here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a).

The-Mage-King
2012-04-01, 01:00 PM
Quick question: have you looked at the Call Weaponry abilitiy of the Psychic Warrior? Most especially, including the options offered here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a).

Indeed I have. The thing is that it's, well...


Specialized in one weapon, and doesn't have the ToB-ness I thought was needed.


I want a Green Lantern of blades, not a Aquaman. :smalltongue:

Besides, you can't get a unique weapon with it!

Tavar
2012-04-05, 01:14 PM
That may be, but it would likely serve as a better basis. Until the 4th level of the class, which means 9th level at the earliest, the psionic power version is better, especially with the substitution levels. For the main selling point of the class to be that far behind at that point seems a bit off.


As for the unique blade aspect, that's trickier. Honestly, I don't think that part can really be balanced, due to stuff like Luck Blade.

The-Mage-King
2012-04-05, 01:29 PM
That may be, but it would likely serve as a better basis. Until the 4th level of the class, which means 9th level at the earliest, the psionic power version is better, especially with the substitution levels. For the main selling point of the class to be that far behind at that point seems a bit off.

Hm... Point. But the thing is, this still gets a maneuver known and readied and better skills than Psi-War does, and can swiss-army knife his way through situations requiring basic tools.

Though maybe I should bump Form Weapon back to 1st, Instant Eyeover to 2nd, Form Legendary Weapon to 3rd, and keep everything else the same...

That way you only go through 3 levels of not having the class's schtick at a reasonable level.


Also, note that Form Weapon and derived abilities are Standard actions, not Full Round. That alone can make a difference in combat.


As for the unique blade aspect, that's trickier. Honestly, I don't think that part can really be balanced, due to stuff like Luck Blade.

Honestly?

I just said "Each time you create a unique weapon, it counts as the same for limited use abilities.", or something like that.

Sure, you get 3 wishes from creating a Luck Blade. But you need to plan how to use 'em, or they'll be wasted.

Tavar
2012-04-05, 02:11 PM
As for the maneuvers, skills, and the like, well, that's no different than a multiclass, especially with the feat. That's what you should be comparing the class against, especially since the most basic entry imaginable is psionic class+ToB class.

You should also remember that this is a PrC. This isn't the character getting his stick at 3rd level. It's getting it at 8th. Keeping in mind that changing weapons isn't extremely useful, in my experience.

The-Mage-King
2012-04-05, 02:29 PM
Hm...

Then what do you suggest?

Also, most basic entry imaginable is Hidden Talent+ToB class. :smalltongue: