[PF] Tetori monk/Brutal Pugilist barbarian build help

[Audious]

Looking to start playing in Pathfinder Society and need to make a level 1 character using only the Ultimate books, Inner Sea Guide, Adv. Player's Guide and core.

I want to make a Tetori/Brutal Pugilist, but I'm not sure which class to pick first, and I'm not too good at optimizing (as if the class choice wasn't obvious.)

Where do I go with such a build?

[jmelesky]

First, welcome to PFS, it's good fun.

Second, if you're not great at optimization, then i'd recommend just choosing one of those two options, rather than trying to multi-class it. Multi-classing in general has been made less appealing in PF than it was in 3.5, so it becomes trickier to decide when and where to do it. When in doubt, single-class.

So, what exactly do you want your character to do?

[Audious]

So, what exactly do you want your character to do?

Make a wrestler/grappled.

[jmelesky]

Okay, so let me preface by saying that i haven't played either archetype.

They look like they'd play rather differently. Brutal Pugilist doesn't change much fundamentally about Barbarians -- you'll still have rage and rage powers, you can still wield big weapons if you want to, and so forth. You just get some very handy bonuses to grappling (and other maneuver) situations. Tetori, on the other hand, is very grapple-focused, to the point where even the Monk's hallmark ability (flurry of blows) is traded out for grapple benefits.

If grappling is your focus, Tetori certainly seems more suited. That leaves you in the position of statting up a monk, which can be tricky. I'd recommend considering Strength the most important stat for this sort of build, since CMB and unarmed damage are both Str-based, and that's what you're going to be doing. Alternately, you can take Agile Maneuvers, which lets you swap out Dex for Str, but you have to reconcile yourself with the lower damage.

Beyond that, i'd recommend reading Treantmonk's PF Monk guide (https://docs.google.com/Doc?id=0AcNyxDTKvAmqZGRtZzhzdjZfNTB3YzJ0NzlkOA). It's outdated (Core only), but there's lots of solid advice in there. Just remember that he's optimizing for a monk that hits alot, rather than one that grapples all over the place.

Hope that helps.

[Ravens_cry]

A Tetori Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/tetori) basically changes the rules.
They can grapple things that can't be grappled and can remove certain defences that make grappling harder. In short, if you want to be an almost pure grapple based character, I think they are the better choice, especially at higher levels where Freedom of Movement, larger than you creatures and other grapple "no's" become depressingly common.
"Dimension Door Mr. Scrawny Wizard? I don't think so. Oh, your trying to become some monster that's hard to grapple? I don't think so Mr. Scrawny Wizard."

[Blyte]

Monk+Barbarian doesn't mesh.

Monks must be lawful, and barbarians must be non-lawful.

*Perhaps* you could be an ex-monk who turns barbarian, but that would be some interesting back story...

I'd suggest being that monk archetype IF you are dead set on grappling... but basing your character around one of the biggest headaches in the game won't score you any points at the gaming table, when you bog down combat rounds constantly consulting rules.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Monk+Barbarian doesn't mesh.

Monks must be lawful, and barbarians must be non-lawful.

Martial Artist, DM that ignores fluff requirements that don't even make sense, just not playing with alignnment restrictions at all...

[Crossblade]

I'd suggest Barbarian first, for more hit points. PF does away with 4x skill points at first level, so HP's really the only think to consider in PF other than favored class.

[Infernalbargain]

Honestly, brutal pugilist doesn't add anything worthwhile to a grapple build that can compete with just take more tetori levels. The only dip I would consider would be two levels of wild rager for the extra attack for an extra grapple check.

[jmelesky]

Honestly, brutal pugilist doesn't add anything worthwhile to a grapple build that can compete with just take more tetori levels. The only dip I would consider would be two levels of wild rager for the extra attack for an extra grapple check.

Since Tetori's CMB/CMD is based on Monk level, dipping at all means stopping your CMB/CMD progression, which is a pretty steep price.

That's why i suggest sticking with single-classing in PF, especially if (as the OP is) you're not comfortable with optimization.

[Cieyrin]

Martial Artist, DM that ignores fluff requirements that don't even make sense, just not playing with alignnment restrictions at all...

This is PFS, you don't just get to ignore fluff/alignment restrictions. Martial Artist archetype is a good point but you unfortunately can't be both a Martial Artist and Tetori, since they both trade out the same features (Slow Fall, Timeless Body, Tongue of Sun and Moon, Diamond Soul, Empty Body), not to mention that Tetori needs Ki points for one of their key abilities, Inescapable Grasp, something the Martial Artist trades away.

Barbarian/Martial Artist does mix well, though, if my Invulnerable Rager/Martial Artist/Unbreakable pans out like I hope it does. :smallamused:

[Blyte]

I suggest pure monk, alignment restrictions aside, the monk (pure) is a much better grapple build at any stage in the game.

take the first 2 crane style feats, and body shield.

fight defensively with a tonfa in one hand and perhaps even make it a dex build with agile manuevers and weapon finesse. just rely on being hard to hit and negating one hit per round to make all or most of the attacks against you hit the grappled target.

it's hard not taking snapping turtle style, but i suggest crane+body shield.

[Infernalbargain]

Since Tetori's CMB/CMD is based on Monk level, dipping at all means stopping your CMB/CMD progression, which is a pretty steep price.

That's why i suggest sticking with single-classing in PF, especially if (as the OP is) you're not comfortable with optimization.

Nope. This was clarified in the FAQ on flurry of blows which has identical wording.