Bard Feats

[Wyntonian]

I'm playing a human bard heavily based off of several poets, primarily Walt Whitman.

At level 1, what's a solid feat choice? I have melodic casting, and I'm considering Dragontouched so I can go DFI.

Related question, how does one go about optimizing IC?

[Elric VIII]

Well, first, have you considered playing a Silverbrow Human? It's a race from Draon Magic that is a human that essentially trades the +1 skill/level for the Dragonblood subtype.

Second, if you're going for a poet-like Bard, Races of Faerun has a PrC called Warrior Skald. It progresses Bardic Music and adds some new ones; it is full BAB, but doesn't progress spellcasting. The premise of the class is epic poetry and requires ranks in Perform (oratory or poetry). It has prerequisites of Cleave and Power Attack.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Here ya go. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869994/Bard_Inspire_Courage_Optimization)

[Wyntonian]

I'll check on Silverbrow Human, I'm not sure it's allowed. I did consider it though, yes.

And thanks for the IC handbook, much appreciated.

EDIT: I should have mentioned this, but I'll be multiclassing into wilder in a level or two. I'd do psion (telepath), but this way I'm more synergistic. Is there a PrC that advances bard and Psionics? How does this affect feat choice?

[Big Fau]

Is there a PrC that advances bard and Psionics? How does this affect feat choice?

The only one is Cerebremancer, and that won't advance your IC. Even worse, you'll be dividing your actions between spellcasting and manifesting, and Bardic spellcasting isn't exactly friends with the Action Economy.

I'd have to argue against dipping Wilder at that, as Wild Surge has some serious repercussions on your actions if it goes awry. Hell, you'd be better off not dipping into a manifester class if you plan on seriously buffing your party (as DFIs usually do), as Psionics do not have many non-personal range buff abilities. There's Affinity Field, but that's hideously broken.

[Wyntonian]

.... Is it that bad? I could go straight DFI, but I was going to have some fun with the telepathy powers.

[Big Fau]

.... Is it that bad? I could go straight DFI, but I was going to have some fun with the telepathy powers.

IC advances very slowly. Its normal progression is +1 per 5 Bard levels, and it normally caps at +4 at 20th level. As you can see in the IC Handbook, you can easily turn this +4 into a +14, which in turn translates to a +14d6 of energy damage per attack for each of your allies.

You'd lose out on that entirely. Every level in a class that doesn't advance Bardic Music means your ability to help the party gets weaker. Psionic powers, by and large, are not oriented towards party-buffing. Your psionic manifesting is more focused on personal range or on offensive abilities, and Telepathy powers are more "center-stage" than your Inspire Courage.

The end result is that you'd be mixing two very conflicting abilities in a way that weakens your character's value to your party. While playing your concept to it's fullest is wonderful, diminishing returns really hurt. The Bard/Wilder investment provides very little on the return.



In other words, you'd be better off focusing on one or the other. I'm certain you could replicate some of the Telepath powers that interest you via spellcasting (the Sublime Chord PrC can provide more options for that route), but the Wilder class itself isn't typically capable of being a team-player in the same way a Bard can (especially a DFI Bard).

[Wyntonian]

Huh. I hadn't realized that this was so unoptimized. Well. I suppose I might not get past first level, as this is a PbP, but I'll remember not to multiclass, then. DFI OP it is, then.

[Autopsibiofeeder]

Huh. I hadn't realized that this was so unoptimized. Well. I suppose I might not get past first level, as this is a PbP, but I'll remember not to multiclass, then. DFI OP it is, then.

I agree with Big Fau's assessment. I see where the telepath idea comes from, but if you want that, it is better to go for a full telepath. Bards can actually easily achieve the same status. You don't get some of the really funky powers, but you for sure get to have the world and the next guy do what you want AND you are a better buffer.

As for the feats: could you describe how you feel your bard should function? What is it that attracts you and what is it, besides mind controlling and a boosting song, that you want to do?

[Elric VIII]

If you want telepathy-like powers there is Lyric Thaumaturge (CM) which lets you grab a few Sorcerer/Wizard spells and Sublime Chord (CAr) gives you 4th-9th level spells from the Bard or Sor/Wiz list over 10 levels. Combine Sublime Chord with Virtuoso (CAd) in order to continue IC advancement.

[Autopsibiofeeder]

If you want telepathy-like powers there is Lyric Thaumaturge (CM) which lets you grab a few Sorcerer/Wizard spells and Sublime Chord (CAr) gives you 4th-9th level spells from the Bard or Sor/Wiz list over 10 levels. Combine Sublime Chord with Virtuoso (CAd) in order to continue IC advancement.

Nevermind...stupid post (mine, that is)...carry on, nothing happening.

[Wyntonian]

Honestly, I just wanted to play a poet who understood people at a deep, instinctual level and could use that in a variety of ways. Bard covered the poet part well, inspire courage and some social spells for the application thereof.

What I liked about telepath was the cool mind-affecting powers, like Mind Thrust, literally using one's power of the mind and perceptions to hurt people, and other Detect Thoughts-sort of things.

Because this is more of a dungeon crawl than an social campaign, I'll stick to party buffing and save the telepathy for the next time I run this character, maybe with a homebrewed PrC to combine the two.

[Gullintanni]

If you really want to do a telepath justice, pick up a level of Mindbender (If you get that far). You gain telepathy out to 100 ft. Then you can IC and DFI using Perform (Poetry) in people's minds.

This has an added benefit making your buffing 100% silent, so no conflicts with move silently, no Listen checks for monsters (beyond what they'd normally get anyway), your buffs work inside the effect of a silence spell, and it's a lot easier to justify thinking all day long than it is to justify playing a lute or drums all day long, so you'd never really have to stop your bardic music.

[Autopsibiofeeder]

Allright. Well, you could always ask your DM if you are allowed to learn some powers as spells. Mind thrust, for example, I would allow on a bard, especially if he comes with a good rationale why he can do that. Mind you, I would never give a bard 'carte-blanche' on psion powers, but hey, if you want this, why could your bard not 'rape' the mind of others with his displays?

As a DM, I would change the damage die to 1d6, since you don't have to augment, but otherwise (will neg., one target, SR: yes) it seems fine with me. Bards are not 'supposed' to have these damaging spells, but if you have a good rationale and a 'perform' with it and do not overdo it (i.e. not ask for a big list of mindraping spells) I would let it fly.

[Treblain]

IC advancement by bard level sucks. You get the same benefit of taking 6-7 levels of bard by taking one feat, casting a 1st level spell, or using an item. That's absurd, and it's amazing that optimizers put up with it. If you're using a Vest of Legends, it does you no good to go for bard 20, since you'd gain no benefit for treating your IC as higher.

Just taking three or four levels of bard, you can get +1 (bard) +1 (Song of the Heart) +1 (Inspirational Boost) +1 (Badge of Valor) +1 (Vest of Legends) = +5. Double via Words of Creation, and you're doing 10d6 of DFI without many bard levels.

Instead of taking more bard levels, take Seeker of the Song or War Chanter, both of which have an ability that lets you start two songs at once. Now use Words of Creation, Dragonfire Inspiration AND Inspire Courage in one action. Now you and your allies do 10d6+10 extra damage per hit, and THF Power Attackers can expend the +10 on attack rolls to get +20 or more damage per hit. Commence evil laughter.

Of course, if you like the higher level bardic music, then be a bard, but don't be tempted to stay just to advance IC. You have plenty of levels you can do whatever you want with. Mindbender is easy to qualify for and gets telepathy at first level. There are a few classes that increase bardic music and casting, like Lyric Thaumaturge and Virtuoso.

Ooh, idea! If you want psychic powers, take Lyric Thaumaturge or Sublime Chord and get Mental Pinnacle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/spells/mentalPinnacle.htm)as a spell.

[Wyntonian]

....Treblain, I love you.

Got sources for those bad boys? Also, what of those are available at 1st level?

Also, there's a chance that the optimizers put up with ridiculously slow IC advancement for the spellcasting. I'll stay bard for at least one more level for the 1st level spells and more per day.

[Treblain]

Most of the IC optimization is listed in Thrice Dead Cat's link, with sources. All prestige classes I mentioned are in the Completes: Warrior, Mage, Arcane, and Adventurer.

You can cast Inspirational Boost at level 2, and take Song of the Heart at level 3. (though there's an Eberron bard alternative class feature that would let you swap out suggestion for it at level 6). I don't remember the prices of the items, but I don't think either is above 5000 gp or so.

Warnings concerning Words of Creation, which doubles bonuses from bardic music: It is an exalted feat, so you will lose it if you commit an evil act and technically requires DM permission to take in the first place. Also, using it deals a small amount of nonlethal damage to yourself, so hold off on taking it until you have enough HP to survive. Knocking yourself out through the sheer might of your poetry is not as awesome as it sounds. Finally, it has 15 INT as a prereq, so don't be :elan: and dump intelligence.

Yet another suggestion: If you're worried enemies will resist fire, you can change damage type of Dragonfire Inspiration by taking a level of Dragon Shaman (PHBII) and selecting a totem dragon of a different element.

For your first level feat, if you can be a silverbrow human, you don't need Dragontouched and can take Dragonfire Inspiration right away. Then again, you only have one bardic music use at level one. Other choices would be Extra Music or Lingering Song (Complete Adventurer). And a caution about Melodic Casting: yeah, it's great to use Perform instead of Concentration, but it's wasted if you ever need to enter a prestige class that requires ranks in Concentration.

[Strormer]

Because this is more of a dungeon crawl than an social campaign, I'll stick to party buffing and save the telepathy for the next time I run this character, maybe with a homebrewed PrC to combine the two.

Out of morbid curiosity, is there such a thing as a psionic bard PrC already? It does seem rather strange, but I could see a lot of fun rp ideas that could grow out of such (and some not so fun ones (http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/9400000/Counselor-Deanna-Troi-star-trek-the-next-generation-9406488-1709-2560.jpg)).

[Daftendirekt]

There is a flat out psionic bard class called the Thoughtsinger, in the same vein as psionic rogue. It's pretty much the same as the core class, redone to have psionics instead of spells.

[Strormer]

I see this (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/thoughtsinger), which could fill the OP's desired concept fairly well if the DM was willing to allow it.

[Coidzor]

Also, using it deals a small amount of nonlethal damage to yourself, so hold off on taking it until you have enough HP to survive. Knocking yourself out through the sheer might of your poetry is not as awesome as it sounds.

You have to be pretty low on HP in that case... Which would mean one was either activating it late in a fight, which is bad, or that one went into a fight without bothering to heal, which is even worse. :smallconfused:


If you're using a Vest of Legends, it does you no good to go for bard 20, since you'd gain no benefit for treating your IC as higher.

Unless you're counting the epic progression. In which case it does count towards grabbing an extra +1


Just taking three or four levels of bard, you can get +1 (bard) +1 (Song of the Heart) +1 (Inspirational Boost) +1 (Badge of Valor) +1 (Vest of Legends) = +5. Double via Words of Creation, and you're doing 10d6 of DFI without many bard levels.

Alternatively, be a full-caster and take a dip of Heartfire Fanner and/or go into Warweaver.

[Wyntonian]

UPDATE: Silverbrow is approved, and will make me do cold instead of fire damage for DFI. I also swapped countersong out for spellbreaker song. (CM)

I won't even try the thoughtsinger at this point, but I'll keep it in mind for the future. I probably won't get to the point that I can use Words of Creation, but it's an option for the future, I suppose. Once I get some cash I'll get a Badge of Valor and a Vest of Legends.

Also, where does the content from the Thoughtsinger and Co. come from?

EDIT: I've decided on Obtain Familiar for my third-level feat, I'll get a raven and name him Edgar.