Pathfinder - Twincast

[Alias]

Going to be taking this rather old custom spell out for a spin next session. I think it remains balanced under Pathfinder.


Twincast
Level: Sorcerer Only 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 ready action
Range: Close (25' + 5' / level)
Target: One spell in casting.
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You must expend a spell slot of equal or greater level than the target spell as an additional cost to cast this spell. Twincast creates a copy of the target spell, which is cast by you immediately after the original spell even if you can’t normally cast it. Casting this copy does not cost you a spell slot as this cost was paid during the casting of twincast.


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Notes:

This spell was written in 3.5 where the sorcerer still lagged behind the wizard in power a bit. The addition of bloodlines amps the sorcerer up a notch but I think this remains appropriate at its original level. Twincasting an ally's fireball costs 2 3rd level slots (one for the twincast, one for the targeted fireball) and in parties that have a wizard and a sorcerer it allows for doubling up on the more obscure spells the wizard might pull out.

Twincast's most powerful aspect though is it doesn't care about class limitation. Hence the sorcerer can use this spell to copy a cure spell - and in most parties that don't have multiple arcane casters this is how it ends up getting used most of the time. Level limitation is still enforced since you must spend a spell slot of equal or greater level than the target spell.

The spell is forbidden to wizards because it's nature requires an intimate understanding of spontaneous casting technique. I always found it odd that there where spells on the arcane list that were wizard only and not the reverse - so that was one of the reasons the spell was made.

While twincast can copy enemy spellcaster spells this isn't useful in practice. Usually if an enemy is casting a spell at your party you'll be one of the targets or in the area of effect. Hence if you twincast such a spell your twincast is resolved first, then their spell, and you must succeed at a concentration check to complete the twincast copy of their spell, which is chancy.

In the rare event twincast is used on a spell with a more than 1 round casting time the twincast itself is near instantaneous, then both you and the other caster go into a mimicry. His spell still goes first, and then yours immediately after.

If the target spell is altered by a metamagic feat you copy the spell and the effects of the feat and cannot choose not to do this. This applies even if you don't have the metamagic feat in question. This is the other reason the spell states that you cast the target spell "even if you can't normally cast it." You do however have to choose and expend a spell slot of equal or greater level than the spell. So twincasting an empowered magic missile will take a 3rd level slot.

While Quickened spells can be twincast it's largely for naught since your action will still be spent up. You still have to use of the same level as the quickened spell even though you'll receive no benefit from the feat.

You do not have to cast the spell copy twincast creates for you, but the spell is lost if you elect not to do so immediately and the twincast is wasted.

As you are casting the spell copied by twincast you must meet all the requirements other than having the spell on your spell list. Sorcerers in Pathfinder have the eschew materials feat, but if you twincast a spell that this feat does not remove the material component cost of you must provide that material component. Similarly you must be able to pay any XP cost of the twincast spell if the spell has such a cost.

[Infernalbargain]

Technically it doesn't work for copying one of your own spells because you cannot cast another spell while casting a spell. Even if it worked, readied actions eat up a standard so if you want to copy anything of yours, it'd have to be a quickened spell. Aside from copying someone else's spell, there's no reason for this because you could just cast an unquickened version of the spell without this.

Now if you made it an immediate action to cast, that'd be interesting and probably overpowered as it lets you effectively quicken 9's which is impossible in PF. Now if that is fine with you, we can use the Ultimate Magus ability from 3.5 as a pricing guide, which would put this as a 4th level spell.

[Alias]

I mentioned copying a quickened because your opponent might be using a quickened spell. When you copy a spell you must copy it exactly even if there can be no benefit - so copying an opponent's quickened spell is a waste of 4 spell levels.

I didn't feel the need to point out that you can't twincast on yourself. First, why would you want to? Sorcerers cast all spells spontaneously anyway. Second, you can't do two things at the same time - you can't ready an action and perform another action, even a swift or immediate action. If you do you must abandon the readied action (You can re-ready it, but not until you complete that swift or readied action. At that point it's too late to try to target the spell cast that way with a twincast ).

House rule I didn't mention that sidesteps a lot of this - swift and immediate actions cannot be reacted to by readied actions.

Twincast as an immediate action is more like a 6th level spell, not a 4th, in my opinion. The fact you have to go stall and wait on your opponent to use twincast against them hampers it more than you might think. Greater twincast perhaps?

[Rubik]

Should it bother me that I saw something considerably less PG-rated when I looked at the name of the thread?

[ericgrau]

If you're worried about balance then similar effects generally expend a spell slot that is 1 level higher. But I think given that it takes a readied action and that you must take whatever spell you get instead of choosing one, it's fair as-is.

You might want to add that it takes a spellcraft (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spellcraft.htm) check (which doesn't take any action) to identify the spell that you want to copy.

[Infernalbargain]

If can't repick the targets of the of the spell then I have question the use of it. Won't work on the vast majority of spells. Buffs won't stack, and a lot of debuffs won't either. Since wiz/sorc already have all the good battle field control, the sorc should just take the spells she would actually consider copying. At which it is justifiable as a second level spell. Although you can do some minor metamagic cheese later on, PF doesn't have the support for metamagic for it to be useful.

[Lord.Sorasen]

If you're worried about balance then similar effects generally expend a spell slot that is 1 level higher. But I think given that it takes a readied action and that you must take whatever spell you get instead of choosing one, it's fair as-is.

You might want to add that it takes a spellcraft (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spellcraft.htm) check (which doesn't take any action) to identify the spell that you want to copy.

Though expending two spell slots of equal level isn't unheard of in Pathfinder: specialist wizards use two spell slots to cast spells from their forbidden school.

[ericgrau]

If can't repick the targets...
The spell should really clarify that you can change the target, or else clarify that since you cast the new spell you may choose all selectable variables including target(s) (if any), but not metamagic. The spell seems to be based on Magic the Gathering twincast which does let you choose new targets.

[Alias]

A spellcraft check isn't required with twincast but it is advisable - you might not want to copy whatever they are casting for whatever reason and the only way to know for sure what you are copying is to identify the spell. If you don't make a successful spellcraft check you can guess at the level of the spell when you expend the additional spell slot, but if you guess low the spell is wasted.

As for targeting - the targets of all spells are chosen when they are cast. Further - Targets are not an attribute of a spell that can be copied (This applies not only to twincast but to similar spells and magic items in the setting it is from). For that reason twincast doesn't restate that rule in its own rules text.