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Erts
2011-12-22, 01:19 AM
My group and I were wondering: do you use a different point buy calculator for Pathfinder? If so, why?
This question is spurred by someone finding this. (http://tools.digitalightbulb.com/pbcalc.html)

Crossblade
2011-12-22, 01:38 AM
Question is too vague.

Different than what? Than the one you linked? I'm sure lots of people have never seen that before, so yes.

Different as in how points are calculated between 3.5 and PF? Yes, because the systems points are calculated differently, they are different games after all.
Example:
3.5's 18 stat is worth 16 points
PF's 18 stat is worth 17 points.

Erts
2011-12-22, 01:56 AM
Question is too vague.

Different than what? Than the one you linked? I'm sure lots of people have never seen that before, so yes.

Different as in how points are calculated between 3.5 and PF? Yes, because the systems points are calculated differently, they are different games after all.
Example:
3.5's 18 stat is worth 16 points
PF's 18 stat is worth 17 points.

Than in 3.5. We don't play pathfinder.

Ancano
2011-12-22, 05:41 AM
Pathfinder attempted to correct many imbalances inherent to 3.5 and the point buy system was one of them.

In 3.5 the marginal cost of buying a stat point increases at odd stats (going from 13->14 = 1 point, 14->15 costs 2 points, 15->16 costs 2 points, 16->17 costs 3 points). Given that odd stats are already suboptimal, this pretty much forced players to never buy odd stats.

In pathfinder, the marginal cost increases at even stats (12->13 costs 1 point, 13->14 costs 2 points, etc). This allows players to occasionally buy odd stats and later bump them up with tomes or level ups.

Overall it encourages more diverse stat arrays.

Lord.Sorasen
2011-12-22, 08:33 PM
Pathfinder attempted to correct many imbalances inherent to 3.5 and the point buy system was one of them.

In 3.5 the marginal cost of buying a stat point increases at odd stats (going from 13->14 = 1 point, 14->15 costs 2 points, 15->16 costs 2 points, 16->17 costs 3 points). Given that odd stats are already suboptimal, this pretty much forced players to never buy odd stats.

In pathfinder, the marginal cost increases at even stats (12->13 costs 1 point, 13->14 costs 2 points, etc). This allows players to occasionally buy odd stats and later bump them up with tomes or level ups.

Overall it encourages more diverse stat arrays.

To add a bit, Pathfinder's different point buy system is official. It has its benefits... As well as its weaknesses.

The arrays, from 10 to 15 to 20 to 25, are base 5 and that's nice. And starting point buy at base 10 rather than base 8 seems natural, really. Allowing points for intentionally having a low stat... It might create problems but it's an interesting idea.

The one thing I don't care for about 15 point buy is how it considers the difference between 7 and 8 to be 2 points, when in reality an 8 in a dump stat and a 7 in a dump stat is generally negligible, especially when that dump stat is charisma. I wouldn't really be able to tell if it's more balanced or not, but it's probably not a big deal.

cattoy
2011-12-24, 06:02 AM
To add a bit, Pathfinder's different point buy system is official. It has its benefits... As well as its weaknesses.

The arrays, from 10 to 15 to 20 to 25, are base 5 and that's nice. And starting point buy at base 10 rather than base 8 seems natural, really. Allowing points for intentionally having a low stat... It might create problems but it's an interesting idea.

The one thing I don't care for about 15 point buy is how it considers the difference between 7 and 8 to be 2 points, when in reality an 8 in a dump stat and a 7 in a dump stat is generally negligible, especially when that dump stat is charisma. I wouldn't really be able to tell if it's more balanced or not, but it's probably not a big deal.

What does a 15 point buy have to do with dumping stats? You can dump just as much with a 25 point buy.

The difference between a 7 and 8 is the difference between a Stat Mod of -1 and -2. (before racial mods if any)

It seems trivial, but if you're looking to dump INT, then you're losing 1 more skill rank every level, and by the time you're level 20, then that's 20 skill ranks you didn't get.

If you're addressing the issue of CHA being a common dump stat with few significant drawbacks, that's a matter for an entirely different thread...

Lord.Sorasen
2011-12-24, 06:10 AM
What does a 15 point buy have to do with dumping stats? You can dump just as much with a 25 point buy.

The difference between a 7 and 8 is the difference between a Stat Mod of -1 and -2. (before racial mods if any)

It seems trivial, but if you're looking to dump INT, then you're losing 1 more skill rank every level, and by the time you're level 20, then that's 20 skill ranks you didn't get.

If you're addressing the issue of CHA being a common dump stat with few significant drawbacks, that's a matter for an entirely different thread...

Not necessarily. Any class with 2+int skill points per level loses very very little from that deal. For this class it is indeed very trivial.

I said 15 didn't I... I do that because my group always uses 15 points for pathfinder. I simply meant Pathfinder's system vs. 3.5's system, where you can choose to "lower" points to 7 in order to gain more points. My primary issue is that the difference of 7 to 8 is considered to be more major than the difference of 10 to 9, which is quite frankly not the case at all (the skill points deal is a good indicator of this, in fact). I like the idea of being able to dump stats lower than 10, but I feel it shouldn't be worth as much as it is.

Mando Knight
2011-12-24, 11:16 AM
If I remember the math correctly, PF's point buy comes out mathematically the same as 4e's, except that you have the option of dropping your dump stat to abominable levels or having more than one dump stat, and they're offset by 2 points because PF starts with straight 10s and 4e has a 5 10s & an 8 starting array.