Expanding Animate Undead's HD Cap

[Silva Stormrage]

Okay, well in a current campaign I am in my DM is letting me research a spell that animates refluffed Lilitu Ghosts. And instead of counting against the rebuke undead cap. They count towards the animate undead cap... So after explaining that this would backfire horribly for him and him arguing that he has it under control. I want to have as many of them as possible.

Right now. I am a dread necromancer with 27 charisma and a + 6 cha item (29 cha with the Lilitu ghosts' blessing). Also I have the rod of undead mastery (Double animate undead cap). Since I have a caster level of 15 that leads to having an undead cap of 390 HD or 32 of these things (DM Ruled that Dread Necromancer's Undead Mastery applied to all levels not just dread necromancer levels). I want more :smallbiggrin:.

Does anyone have any other suggestions either to boost charisma, the animate dead HD cap or caster level (preferably not feats).

Thanks for any help you can give.

[Psyren]

An Eternal Wand of Desecrate will double your cap for 4 hours of animation/day.

Arcane Disciple for the Deathbound domain will triple your cap.

These increases should stack for 6HD/CL, though I'm unsure if they'll stack with your rod. (If they do, you're looking at 12HD/CL.)

[Silva Stormrage]

An Eternal Wand of Desecrate will double your cap for 4 hours of animation/day.

Arcane Disciple for the Deathbound domain will triple your cap.

These increases should stack for 6HD/CL, though I'm unsure if they'll stack with your rod. (If they do, you're looking at 12HD/CL.)

Unfortunately those only affect the amount of undead created by the spell not the total cap. With those I would be creating 12 HD/CL of undead with each animate dead spell. However with dread necromancer I can control 4 + my charisma modifier (9) so I wouldn't increase my cap with those.

[Silva Stormrage]

Does anyone have any suggestions?

[Madara]

I'll be the one to say it, The spell only checks your cap when you animate, so you control anything you animate in one go. I notice you have a caster level of 13, is that your actual level? At your level, get a slaymate, just get one. It doesn't matter if you use gather info check, or polymorph other a commoner into a slaymate, just get one. I'll probably have more suggestions, but just look in LM. Most of my Necro-opt has been cleric. No chance you're in eberron?

[Silva Stormrage]

I'll be the one to say it, The spell only checks your cap when you animate, so you control anything you animate in one go. I notice you have a caster level of 13, is that your actual level? At your level, get a slaymate, just get one. It doesn't matter if you use gather info check, or polymorph other a commoner into a slaymate, just get one. I'll probably have more suggestions, but just look in LM. Most of my Necro-opt has been cleric. No chance you're in eberron?

Unfortunatly the custom spell I am researching that allows me to summon the ghosts summons them one at a time. So abusing that clause in animate dead actually doesn't work. Also since I am not creating them with animate dead anything that boosts animate dead's creation limits doesn't help. The custom spell just checks to see animate dead's control limits ((4 + charisma)*2 per caster level)

[Madara]

That's tough, most of the necro-tricks involve abusing that clause. The spell you are researching seems like it counts toward your total undead controlled with animate dead(simular to that one ghoul gauntlet spell), it seems like increasing your caster level is the best way to do things.

Question: You said "summon", is it temportary, or is it creation?

[Silva Stormrage]

Okay, I was wondering if there was another thing like the rod of undead mastery floating around that i missed. I know spell stitching a minion gives + 3hd I believe.

And when I say summoned I mean creation, my bad.

I might try to take a 2 level dip in horned harbinger. It gives me charisma to caster level for animate dead so it seems like a decent investment.

[twas_Brillig]

There's an item from Dragon that (I think) doubles the HD you can control, provided you have an undead giant or some number of hit dice of undead giants (I don't recall which). It was from an issue or article focusing on giants, though unfortunately I don't have a convenient way of finding which...

I just remember using it in an incredibly ill-advised gestalt game. Who knew a Druid/Cleric with literally hundreds of hit dice in undead would slow the game down?

Seconding the Book of Bad Latin, on account of at least one item in there to directly increase your maximum capacity.

[Morph Bark]

Unfortunatly the custom spell I am researching that allows me to summon the ghosts summons them one at a time. So abusing that clause in animate dead actually doesn't work. Also since I am not creating them with animate dead anything that boosts animate dead's creation limits doesn't help. The custom spell just checks to see animate dead's control limits ((4 + charisma)*2 per caster level)

In that case, I think you were asking the wrong question, as you perhaps should better ask how to create stronger summons instead of stronger animated undead. (Otherwise I would have suggested desecrate.)

However, considering the amount of houseruling involved here, I'm rather confused as well. :smallconfused:

[Madara]

Would Corpsecrafter apply to your creations?

[ericgrau]

For ghostly things I think the spell you're looking for is create greater undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createGreaterUndead.htm). Create undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createUndead.htm) has more details; like animate dead it is also cast on a dead body.

For custom undead I'd compare the CRs to the example creatures. Those with less special abilities (energy drain, etc.) than the example creatures should be adjusted down, those with more should be adjusted up. Just a little. Because these abilities help PCs fighting monsters more than they help monsters fighting PCs. For special undead rather than meatbags that hack at things this is a better measure than HD anyway.

[hamishspence]

For zombies and skeletons that don't have a 20HD cap- Draconomicon's Zombie Dragon and Skeletal Dragon templates are handy.

The Zombie dragon not having double Hit Dice, might also be beneficial- so a 10 HD Zombie Dragon will be much larger than a 10HD Dragon Zombie (which began with 5 HD but got it doubled.)

[Silva Stormrage]

In that case, I think you were asking the wrong question, as you perhaps should better ask how to create stronger summons instead of stronger animated undead. (Otherwise I would have suggested desecrate.)

However, considering the amount of houseruling involved here, I'm rather confused as well. :smallconfused:

Sorry if I am being confusing. I will try to clarify. The custom spell my DM is letting me make creates one of these ghost creatures. Similarly to create undead and create greater. However, I automatically have control over these summons and instead of their HD counting towards my rebuke undead cap (which they normally would) their HD count towards my animate dead HD cap (Normally 4/caster level).

Dread Necromancer RAW makes the cap for animate dead 4 + charisma per CLASS Level. My DM just did the sensible thing and made it per caster level as its probably supposed to work.

I am looking for things that increase the animate undead hd cap for controlling undead (The normal cap of 4hd/caster level). Such as Rod of Undead Mastery, Horned Harbinger's charisma to caster level for determining animate undead HD's cap and other similar bonuses.

Things like desecrate don't work since they only increase the amount that animate dead can create. But since I am not actually USING the spell animate dead that part is void. (And its hard to increase creation limit beyond Dread Necromancer's control limits anyway >.>)


@ Madara: Yes those feats will apply. I already have most of the good ones :smalltongue:

@Ericgrau: Yes I tried to see if I could create the creatures with those spells but the DM ruled that I had to create a brand new spell to do it. So here we are :smallbiggrin:

@ Hamishpspence: Yes I am aware of those creatures but I am not looking to fill up my animate undead HD cap with zombies and skeletons. I am looking to make my animate undead hd cap LARGER.

And sorry bout the whole summon/creation misspeak on my part. I said "summon" I am literally just animating them as normal for animating undead. I also just happen to have to "summon" the outsiders corpse in front of me and the animate it that way.

[ericgrau]

Try a custom spell that is oddly similar to create greater undead, but for the creature you want?