[D&D3.5]Warblade

[Fruchtfliege]

Hey all,

I'll soon be joining a group that's got a first/second level d&d 3.5 game going.
Talking to the master gave me a pretty good idea of what to expect.
The group consists of
a dwarven fighter (THF, guy uses core only. PA, but never even goes leap attack. Rather cleave and stuff),

a Sorcerer (New, but so far core only with no desire to make the most of his class),

a druid (played like a tier 5/6),

a barbarian (THF, PA, Cleave [going for supreme cleave], who is core only too and doesnt seem to munchkin a lot) and occasionaly

a cleric (so far core only healbot).

Cleric, Sorc, Barb and Druid will be level 2, Fighter and me will be level 1.

Since the fighter (current DM) will join when I do and the barbarian (next DM) will leave, they just need a frontliner.
Now obviously a min/max-ed charger would be wrong in this group.
This gives me quite the opportunity to create a more flavoured character. Thing is: I'm a powergamer at heart, so it should not dish out sucky damage, which is hard to do with a warblade anyway. But still it has to be playable throughout the levels.

So far my build is a tripping fighter 2/WB 8

Name: Khantou D'giss (Cant touch this ^^ )
Human:
Str: 16 (+3)
Dex: 14 (+2)
Con: 14 (+2)
Wi: 08 (-1)
Int: 14 (+2)
Cha: 08 (-1)

Skills:
1. Craft(Weaponsmithing)[Int] 4; Climb [Str] 4; Jump [Str] 4; Swim [Str] 4; Ride[Dex] 4
2. Concentration [Con] 5; Jump 5; Knowledge History [Int] 0, Craft 5, Climb 4, Swim 4, Ride 4
3. Concentration 6; Jump 6, Craft 6, Climb 6, Swim 6 KH 0, Ride 4
4. Concentration 7, Jump 7, Craft 7, Climb 7, Swim 7, KH 0, Ride 4
5. Conc 8, Jump 8, Craft 8, Climb 8, Swim 8, KH 2, Ride 4
6. Conc 9, Jump 9, Craft 9, Clim 9, Swim 9, KH 4, Ride 4

Weapons:
Bladed Guantlet [Arms & Equipment](1w6/19-20 x2; slashing; for infight) + Reach Weapon (Guisarme 2w4/x3 + trip)

Feats:
*=fighter/Warblade Bons
F 1 :Improved Trip(+4 trip attempt; When trip, then extra att) ; Combat Expertise* (-x att = +x dodge; x<BAB, x<6) ; Combat Reflexes (AoOs while flat footet; +x AoOs, x= Dex Mod)
F 2 :PA*
WB 1 (2):Knock Down (10+ dmg = free trip)
WB 2 (3):
WB 3 (4):
WB 4 (5):Leap Attack (jump check = PA 3x mod)
WB 5 (6):Improved Initiative*
WB 6 (7):
WB 7 (8):Improved Sunder (entry for combat brute. Not sure about this)
WB 8 (9):

Maneuvers/Stances:
3. S- Leading the Charge (WR); m-Moment of perfect mind (DM); m-Steel Wind (IH)[Retrain at 6-> Insightful Strike (DM){Retrain at 8-> Bounding Assault (DM)}]
m-charging Minotaur (TC)
4. m-Battle Leaders Charge(WR)
5. m-Mountain Hammer (SD)
6. s-Hunters sense (TC)
7. m-Iron heart Surge (IH)
9. m-Ruby Nightmare Blade (DM)[Retrain at 10-> Dancing Mongoose (TC)]

The tactics would be:
Level 1 First Round Charge, followed by usage of improved trip
Level 2-3 First Round Charge, using PA, followed by usage of improved trip
Level 4+ Charge as often as possible using PA (and possibly leap attacking) using maneuvers if not possible

Also after a fight in which hes not been hit he should sing his name (Cant touch this... Mc Hammer)

The problems so far are:
1. I never played a character like this before, so I dont know whats good for him.
2. Is this "low" str. and "only" +4 to tripping enough to make the build viable? The DM should be looking for monsters to make the build not work (there are enough) and not for monsters to make it work in order for me to have fun.
3. It kind of feels like there is a high damage maneuver missing in case the char has to stand in one spot and just hit the snot out of a big guy.

Now if you have ANY ideas how to improve this guy without cheesing it up too much regarding damage I would very much appreciate it.

Also if you have another flavoured build idea for a WB just hit me with it. (Idea floating around was a UAS WB, but that one seems way weaker than a tripping expert.)

Thanks for reading.

[Rhaegar14]

TWF with a Warblade is fun with Tiger Claw maneuvers, but not really the best direction to take them in op-wise, so far as other flavorful build ideas go (very feat intensive and not worth aforementioned feats from an optimization standpoint unless you're playing a Diopsid).

However, since most of your casters aren't really playing their classes "well," tripping might add some much-needed control (though you're not exactly taking the control approach to tripping, which isn't necessarily a bad thing considering your group).

Soaring Raptor Strike (Tiger Claw 3) is great for Large or larger opponents that you need to stand there and hit.

[Fruchtfliege]

The "real" TWF with a warblade I did once.
The whole package with kukris, blood in the water and stuff...
That got annoying pretty fast for my taste. Though it was a very viable build.
Another reason why I'm unsure about my thought about fist fighting

What do you mean by "control" approach? Stand still + Thicked of blades?
If so: I was thinking about this and like the idea, but the loss of 2 feats (I'd go Crusader 1/Warblade 4/Crusader 2/Warblade 5+) kind of sucks.
Maybe Fighter 1/warblade 4/Crusader 1/Warblade 5+ would work...
That way I'd get the essential feat on first level, take Stand still at third and knock down at sixth. Now I'd only have to talk the DM into allowing PA as a WB bonus feat. :D
That could do the trick.
Then go leap attack instead of improved sunder.

You're right about the soaring raptor. It's quite nice. Will have to see what armor the char is wearing at that time though. (heavy is one reason for me to take fighter at first).

[Greenish]

I'm not sure tripper/charger warblade is the best fit for the rest of your group.

Anyhow, most ovious thing to do would be to swap the levels around for Warblade 1/Fighter 2/Warblade X, for more hitpoints and skill points. Also maneuvers are great at 1st level.

[Fruchtfliege]

Well dont just leave me hanging there ;)
What do you think would benefit the group?
I chose tripping/charging simply because it seems effective, I've nver done it and the rest of the group generally just keeps running around fighting without a plan one on one. It just seems like they need protection.

On the changing thing: Yes, I'm also unsure about my choice, but when I want to play a concept I want to play a least a weak version of it from the beginning. Dont care much about Skillpoints since the grounp in general seems to be way more hack and slay (Yeah, funny given their inability to munchkin ^^)

[Greenish]

Well dont just leave me hanging there ;)
What do you think would benefit the group?TWF ranger. Knight. Duskblade. Law Incarnate. Marshal. Samurai. Something which is in line with the rest of the party.


I chose tripping/charging simply because it seems effectiveIt is. That's the problem.


It just seems like they need protection.Nah, if you don't make something much stronger than them, the DM can actually use opponents that won't steamroll them.


On the changing thing: Yes, I'm also unsure about my choice, but when I want to play a concept I want to play a least a weak version of it from the beginning.I don't know what you're trying to say here.


Dont care much about Skillpoints since the grounp in general seems to be way more hack and slay (Yeah, funny given their inability to munchkin ^^)Jump. Concentrate. Balance. Tumble. Spot. Listen. Plenty of skills have combat applications.

[Cwymbran-San]

Have a look at the feats in Oriental Adventures, lots of them have interesting side effects for protecting your mates while dishing out nice damage. If you can talk your DM into dropping the Clan-Prereq., that is.
Otherwise, stick with the talents from the Crab Clan and you'd be set, works well with a defensive-oriented warblade in my experience.

[sonofzeal]

Since you're worried about overshadowing people, and since you're looking at ToB in a low-level game when ToB is at its best and everything else is at its worse...

Tread with caution. Seriously. Pick a terrible terrible race that you have a soft spot for but would never otherwise get to play because it's never worth it. Something with terrible stats for a Fighter, or that has thoroughly-undeserved LA.

Seriously, half your group is core-only melee. You could make them feel bad by sneezing lightly in the direction of ToB. This is especially true in the lvl 1-5 range before iteratives make standard-action strikes at least slightly less attractive.

Either voluntarily self-nerf, or find something closer to the power level of your group.

[Fruchtfliege]

You are right about this.
Damn! Why does my min/max-side always take the best of me?
Okay, warblade stays on the table. But i like the idea of a fun race :D

Maybe I'll go into kobold or something alike. But then it has to be a fistfighter or a gloved fighter. I cant power attack with either, right?

[Quietus]

You are right about this.
Damn! Why does my min/max-side always take the best of me?
Okay, warblade stays on the table. But i like the idea of a fun race :D

Maybe I'll go into kobold or something alike. But then it has to be a fistfighter or a gloved fighter. I cant power attack with either, right?

Power attack is fine, as long as you aren't boosting it beyond that one feat. Consider : Unarmed kobold swordsage, without Adaptive Style? You get a few neat tricks, can focus on Setting Sun to throw people around as a little tiny kobold, and add in a bit of shadow hand for the roguery, but you aren't going overboard with access to crazy things. And the things you CAN do, you can only do 1/encounter unless you take a full turn to get them back.

[Darrin]

Maybe I'll go into kobold or something alike. But then it has to be a fistfighter or a gloved fighter. I cant power attack with either, right?

Actually, kobolds make rather nasty TWF warblades, mostly because they can throw bite/claw/claw on top of a full attack.

And while an unarmed-strike-based Warblade is nerfing yourself a little bit, you *can* Power Attack with unarmed strikes and natural weapons (the feat has a special exception for them). You don't get two-handed multipliers, though.

Some suggestions for an unusual Warblade race:

Warforged Scout (MMIII). The half-pint version. No slam attack, but light fortification.

Shoal Halfling (Stormwrack). Aquatic and amphibious!

Tibbit (Dragon Compendium). Stay in cat form, pretend to be the sorcerer's familiar.

Anthropomorphic Toad (Savage Species). Bonus points if you have the nerve to name him Rash, Pimple, or Zitz.

Desert Half-Orc (Unearthed Arcana). The only half-orc variant without a Cha penalty, so you can give him some unusual personality quirks (vain, narcisstic, prissy, pretentious, clean-freak). Also gets Run as a bonus feat, so you could also give him a cowardly streak.

Neraph (Planar Handbook). Outsider = proficient with all martial weapons, including ranged. So you could make a ranged warblade who doesn't like to "get his hands dirty" with melee.

[Fyermind]

If you want to protect them, consider going with entangling exhalation on a dragonborn, then completely ignoring the game effect text on everything else you pick and take whatever descriptions seem cool. Battlefield inspiration for example to boost your buddies saves against fear. Consider playing something like a knight but don't focus on damage. Stand still + bulwark of Defense (class feature) + reach weapon makes it hard to target anyone else. If you entangle your enemies round 1, your buddies should be able to route them with ease, and you can pull test of mettle stunts to keep them from getting axed. If you try to powerhouse damage, even if you try not to do it very well, you will end up overshadowing the fighter. So ignore damage. Trip, Attacks of opportunity, aid another actions, look around for feats that make those better. You may find the best options are to be a team player. For race consider something with a dex bonus like an elf. If you are discontent to not get something useful Dragonborn a Sylvan elf for +2 str -2 int. Sword and board notoriously sucks. Use it. You get bonuses for it as a knight, and can blow all your feats on it if you want to, so you needn't worry about cheesing out. Stay in knight to level 20. You get immortality at level 20. Stick around for it. It isn't like the group is losing anything if you don't.

[Fruchtfliege]

Thank you all for your suggestions.
I will further look into it over the hollidays.
Right now my mind swirls around a "Yoda" character.
A MAD kobold swordsage. But who knows. You brought up so many fun build ideas :)

Happy hollidays!

[Phaederkiel]

i like the aikido kobold approach. setting sun and shadow hand or desert wind.

Marshall is another class that could be nice for 4 lvls. Afterwards you can still go TOB, but along the way everybody loves the guy that helps everybody.

[Elfin]

I really love warblades. But I think that, in this case, Tome of Battle may not be a good fit for your group – especially (as Sonofzeal said) at the low levels, when martial adepts tend to be at their peak. I would recommend choosing a less powerful option, like a knight, marshal, or paladin, so as to be more in line with the group's power level.

That said, I cannot in good conscience miss a chance to plug my warblade handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176968).

[Quietus]

I really love warblades. But I think that, in this case, Tome of Battle may not be a good fit for your group – especially (as Sonofzeal said) at the low levels, when martial adepts tend to be at their peak. I would recommend choosing a less powerful option, like a knight, marshal, or paladin, so as to be more in line with the group's power level.

That said, I cannot in good conscience miss a chance to plug my warblade handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176968).

Swordsage isn't so bad at low levels, unless you're nova-ing your maneuvers. Sure, dropping Wolf Fang Strike with... Burning Blade? for TWF plus a d6+1 of fire on each looks impressive, and can really mess up something's day if both those attacks land, but you nova and then you're spent. Warblade and Crusader are both stronger in the lower levels, since simply attacking is still valuable, and both can recover maneuvers while doing so.