Elder Scrolls PnP?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I was wondering if anyone has ever converted the popular Elder Scrolls series of games to a tabletop format. Tamriel is a vast setting and the potential for other adventurers (so long as they avoid arrows in the knee) is equally vast. If there never has been a PnP conversion for Elder Scrolls, what would be the best system to try and mimic it with? In terms of rules I'd like to go with something like Skyrim's much more streamlined skill and stat system, rather than Morrowind and Oblivion's which could be done, but I feel they're very limiting and cumbersome.

[LibraryOgre]

I was wondering if anyone has ever converted the popular Elder Scrolls series of games to a tabletop format. Tamriel is a vast setting and the potential for other adventurers (so long as they avoid arrows in the knee) is equally vast. If there never has been a PnP conversion for Elder Scrolls, what would be the best system to try and mimic it with? In terms of rules I'd like to go with something like Skyrim's much more streamlined skill and stat system, rather than Morrowind and Oblivion's which could be done, but I feel they're very limiting and cumbersome.

To get it out of the way, GURPS can do everything. d6 can usually do everything, but you have to jigger it about a little.

Of more specialized systems? I think you're going to want a classless system, because TES more or less assumes that every character can be moderately competent in everything.

[Premier]

IIRC, Tamriel was originally the homebrew setting for the D&D campaign run by some of the guys who later created Arena. So D&D would be an obivous choice.

[LibraryOgre]

IIRC, Tamriel was originally the homebrew setting for the D&D campaign run by some of the guys who later created Arena. So D&D would be an obivous choice.

I disagree. While it might have originally been a homebrew setting for D&D, several things about D&D make it a poor choice for emulating TES, especially as of Daggerfall and later.

1) Classes as rigidly defined sets of abilities. While skills in later versions of D&D somewhat ameliorate this (i.e. anyone can use Hide in Shadows or Open Locks), it doesn't encompass everyone's ability to try and make potions or cast spells.

2) Spells as fire-and-forget. 3.x psionics almost matches what you see in TES, but is much more limited in spell knowledge, and in PP/Mana recovery.

3) Skill-based. TES is very much skill based. Use swords a lot, get good with swords. Speak Harpy a lot, get good with languages. While it has levels, those levels are determined by skill use, not skill levels being determined by class level.

4) Flexibility. This somewhat goes back to the class thing, but with the combination of birthsigns, classes, and racial abilities, D&D doesn't do the flexibility as well without heavy houseruling.

[GreyMantle]

D&D also assumes that your levels something in terms of actual power, but that is totally not the case in ES. So that's another mark against D&D in terms of replicating the feel of the games.

[TheHarshax]

Prior to Skyrim, I would have said BRP is the best emulator. Skills get better with use, magic is not fire and forget, etc. However, BRP doesn't have 'levels' The skill improvement mechanic mimics what you experienced in the game quite nicely.

With Skyrim, however, characters are more defined by their perks. Two characters with 100% in One-handed aren't the same. So I would switch from BRP, and say Savage Worlds is the more appropriate game system. Since Savage Worlds characters are differentiated more strongly by their Edges. That system also has a leveling system.

Regardless, the world is what you're really interested in, so play whatever system your group wants.

[LibraryOgre]

D&D also assumes that your levels something in terms of actual power, but that is totally not the case in ES. So that's another mark against D&D in terms of replicating the feel of the games.

True; in Oblivion, especially, I built my character so my use-skills would level slowly (with swords and armor that I intended to use being non-class skills, since they would climb out of proportion to everything else).

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Prior to Skyrim, I would have said BRP is the best emulator. Skills get better with use, magic is not fire and forget, etc. However, BRP doesn't have 'levels' The skill improvement mechanic mimics what you experienced in the game quite nicely.

With Skyrim, however, characters are more defined by their perks. Two characters with 100% in One-handed aren't the same. So I would switch from BRP, and say Savage Worlds is the more appropriate game system. Since Savage Worlds characters are differentiated more strongly by their Edges. That system also has a leveling system.

Regardless, the world is what you're really interested in, so play whatever system your group wants.
Tell me more about this Savage Worlds.

[vegetalss4]

True; in Oblivion, especially, I built my character so my use-skills would level slowly (with swords and armor that I intended to use being non-class skills, since they would climb out of proportion to everything else).

That was only due to a mistake in the design, you pretty obviously was supposed to make your most used skills your major ones and then grow in levels as you got better.

[LibraryOgre]

That was only due to a mistake in the design, you pretty obviously was supposed to make your most used skills your major ones and then grow in levels as you got better.

Oh, sure, that's what you were SUPPOSED to do. But the game was a LOT easier if you put your least-used skills as your majors, then leveled when you wanted to through training, because you were a total bad-ass at level 3 (with your 100 in your useful skills, and not so much in the weapons and armor you didn't use).

[horseboy]

I've been thinking about this absently, but never really put down all the effort. My first instinct would be RM, though the "perks" thing wouldn't translate really well. It's hard to find another system that has that "wide" a scope mechancially any more. Everybody just wants to go 1-6 anymore it seems like.
If you were okay with the 1-6 thing BESM could work. You could probably cudgel it into Journeyman Adept style for Earthdawn. You know, pick 6 skills. Once they "level" you can pick two more and so on and so on. Hmm, is there an edition of Harn with a more simplified combat?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

What's RM? :smallconfused:

[horseboy]

Sorry, Rolemaster.

Upon further reflection, did R. Tasalorian ever do a fantasy game? Their system would almost fit.

[The Endbringer Xaraphim]

You might try the Riddle of Steel. There's no leveling system, but you get better at your skills by using them and you gain combat ability by spending XP (sort of).

Combat is remarkably lethal (with hit locations and insta-kills) and the overall setting is pretty low-fantasy. The magic system is purposefully overpowered though, but it's a double edged sword; a mage's biggest threat is himself.

I myself am playing a game of RoS set in a slightly tweaked version of Calradia, the setting for the PC game Mount & Blade.

[GreyMantle]

Honestly, I'd be curious to see a Burning Wheel hack of Elder Scrolls. It fits the lowmagic nature of Skyrim and Oblivion fairly well, at least. Morrowind and Daggerfall had Mark and Recall spells, which you'd have to add in.
BW is too gritty to allow for as much combat as the ES games normally include, but I'd say that's pretty minor.

Edit: Like Riddle of Steel and ES, Burning wheel is skillbased, and you improve your skills by using them.

[Boci]

I stumbled across this recently: http://rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=49039&date=1323147554 (you should be able to view it without an rpol account).
The creator was looking for a GM to play test the rules, so I don't know how well it works in play, but if nothing else it appears to be a very faithful adaptation.

[Eldan]

Honestly, I'd be curious to see a Burning Wheel hack of Elder Scrolls. It fits the lowmagic nature of Skyrim and Oblivion fairly well, at least. Morrowind and Daggerfall had Mark and Recall spells, which you'd have to add in..

Tamriel lowmagic? Are we playing the same games? The one where hordes of demons march across the land, where everyone has access to disease-curing magic and healing magic, where the battlemages are one of the most important branches of the army, where enchanted items are something everyone other than the lowliest peasant carries, and where major wars usually involve things like people shouting at city walls to shatter them and incarnated gods dropping moons on cities?

[Telok]

Tamriel lowmagic? Are we playing the same games? The one where hordes of demons march across the land, where everyone has access to disease-curing magic and healing magic, where the battlemages are one of the most important branches of the army, where enchanted items are something everyone other than the lowliest peasant carries, and where major wars usually involve things like people shouting at city walls to shatter them and incarnated gods dropping moons on cities?

To be honest Oblivion and Skyrim have heavily confused things. Those who have played the first part of the series experienced Tamriel during it's Golden Age of learning and magic. The last two are clearly set in the local Dark Ages where people have forgotten how to cast such simple spells as Jump, Swift Swim, and Slow Fall. Of course the great magics of Levitate, Recall, and Detect Key are now merely myths along with the great sorcerer-kings who cast them.

[horseboy]

Mark/Recall, the Damascus steel of Tamriel.

[GreyMantle]

To be honest Oblivion and Skyrim have heavily confused things. Those who have played the first part of the series experienced Tamriel during it's Golden Age of learning and magic. The last two are clearly set in the local Dark Ages where people have forgotten how to cast such simple spells as Jump, Swift Swim, and Slow Fall. Of course the great magics of Levitate, Recall, and Detect Key are now merely myths along with the great sorcerer-kings who cast them.

Precisely, Telok.

First off, let's consider solely Tamriel as it is portrayed in Oblivion and Skyrim. (Honestly, we're going to mostly ignore Oblivion because it's 1) a bad game, and 2) an unsuitable target for world analysis because of its levelscaling mechanic. People cannot teleport, fly, jump really high, perform complex divinations, or do other things. And while things like dragons and demons and giants exist, such creatures are not extraordinarily more powerful than a common bear. Even if the bears and cats of Skyrim are bigger than their realworld counterparts, that's still implying that a few dudes with rifles could totally take out the Oblivion invasion were it to occur in the real world. That is strongly suggestive of E6 or something equivalent being the best fit for ES TTRPG. There is occasionally highpower stuff like Sheogorath's Daedric Quest, but that is clearly just the DM making stuff up on the fly.

However, Tamriel is "lowmagic" solely in the sense that it presents a world where the maximum power level attainable is sharply limited. It's like Eberron in that lowlevel magic is widely prevalent throughout the entire world: many bandit groups have a mage or two, divine shrines are common and useful, and so on.

Morrowind (and presumably the games before it) did have a lot more varied magic. But if you're trying to model Skyrim-era ES, then your system needs to indisputably be "lowmagic."

[horseboy]

You know I heard that one of the lead guys on Oblivion was one of the guys from Paranoia. Not sure if it's true, but it does make sense.

[Fouredged Sword]

I had considered an adaptation of WOD. Maybe 10 dots per attribute/skill.

Grant a unique skill upgrade at 3,5,7 and 10 dots.

You have sneaky/social skills on one set, physical skills on the next, and then magic skills on the last.

Spell effects could be bought with exp, and then effect level determined by die pools. (buy fire damage effect with exp, roll to pick how big and powerful the blast is each time you use it)

May work nicely. Would take some serious homebrew modding of the system though. I just think the exp based free form system would function well.

[LibraryOgre]

Actually, NWOD wouldn't be too bad... wouldn't model the mechanics of TES that well, but it wouldn't do too bad for the feel of them.

Switch from the NWOD attributes to the TES, but use NWOD style. Each race becomes akin to a vampire Clan... if you're a Breton, you get a bonus to your Int and Will, for example. Race also determines some free skill points that get passed out, and some special bennies. Treat all "skills" as the equivalent of NWOD "Talents"... no modifier for not having the skill trained, but you've got no skill, either.

Main problem I see is how to work in the "Luck" attribute. Maybe akin to Shadowrun 4e's "Edge"? Maybe use Shadowrun 4e as a base, instead of NWOD?

edit: I actually went off and played some Morrowind... the more I think about it, the more 4e Shadowrun makes more sense to me.

It already has built-in Luck (Edge) and Fatigue (Mental Track) mechanics; one might also include a "Magic Track", based on Intelligence, to represent Magic Points... more successes on your spellcasting skills would allow you to reduce drain, meaning someone with great Alteration skills would be able to cast higher-level alteration skills with less drain.

As a tabletop, you could branch out somewhat in skills (like actual riding skills, for example), but it would be a fairly smooth integration of systems.

[Fouredged Sword]

Useing a NWOD system I would just make luck an atribute of that straight grants a pool of points that can be added to any roll you wish, but limited to luckX2 total dice a day, and no more than luck/2 dice per roll, or able to increase the effective value of a resistance stat. You pool refills every x number of scenes, likely you get 1/4th your pool per scene or something like that. This would completely replace the willpower system.

Fatigue points could be added in as a pool of points that some actions draw from and penalties develop if you run yourself dry. You should have Endurance + willpower + athletics worth of fatigue points and you recover athletics/3 points per round (rounding up). Attacking with a melee weapon costs it's size in fatigue (plus extra if you arn't strong enough to wield it properly). Fast movement and running takes points per round.

Magic could be added in much the same (other stats and recover rate). With a cost per effect formula that higher levels of the magic school skills would offset.